Dry pet food

[Dewt]

Can you European commies please help me resolve this?

I feel certain that it was not at all normal in the UK to feed pets a diet largely consisting of dry food/kibble[nb]when did we even start knowing what the word kibble was?[/nb], and that the wet, meaty food was not exorbitantly expensive. Is this true, generally, or just a my family/South East thing?

The standard in the US seems to be terrible dry food. The wet stuff is really, really expensive. I feed my two cats a reasonable quality canned wet food and it costs $170 a month. Surely it wasn't like that back in Blighty

[Chedney Honks]

Wet food is bad for cats' teeth, apparently. Cats tend to develop tooth and gum problems and wet food can exacerbate this. A couple of vets told me this after one of our cats had a couple of teeth removed. I know there are different views on it but that's my own experience. Ours used to only have wet food, the good stuff, and their teeth started to suffer for it. Fresh water and good dry food will be absolutely fine. I give ours Purina One which probably costs me twenty quid a month. I throw in some wet food occasionally to mix it up for them. I've given them more expensive raw food type wanker cat food and they don't like it. I sometimes give ours some cooked chicken or fresh fish. They tend to prefer cat food, though, to be honest. I do give them a few Dreamies or similar treats most days just because they obviously love them, but I don't overdo it. By coincidence, I did actually give them some wet food today.

[Dewt]

Wet food is bad for cats' teeth, apparently. Cats tend to develop tooth and gum problems and wet food can exacerbate this.

This used to be my belief but then I was bombarded with "dry food is absolutely killing your pets" and I don't know anymore. It would be great if dry food were the better choice because as you say, it's twenty quid a month

I don't trust https://catinfo.org/ alone, but their general stance does seem to be echoed elsewhere. I also don't trust most vets. The mediocre ones are absolutely abysmal product shills. Sadly it is too far to take my cats to the good vet I know.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Kibble overtook canned food in the UK, for dogs at least. And good quality kibble is regarded better than tinned stuff.

Bonio used to give my housemate's dog the mustard shits though.

[Dewt]

Kibble overtook canned food in the UK, for dogs at least. And good quality kibble is regarded better than tinned stuff.

When did this happen? I swear it wasn't the case ten years ago.

This is why I made the thread - I'm not sure if this is just a "how my family feeds animals" thing.

[Sebastian Cobb]

When did this happen? I swear it wasn't the case ten years ago.

About 10 or so years ago probably. Dogs will eat any old shit though, so there's good and bad kibble but also tinned dog food is shit. If course you can supplement it with leftover actual meat and butchers stuff, but cats are more discerning.

Think most people I know with cats and dogs tend to use kibble. A lot of the supermarket stuff is shite though, mail order/animal places might be the place to go. What was that big wholesale place that wasn't exactly a pet store - sold horse feed and stuff but also big bags of pet food.

[Dewt]

About 10 or so years ago probably.

Makes sense.

Did the price change? There's no way my mother would have paid what I pay for wet food.

[Shit Good Nose]

As Chedney says, an exclusively dry food diet is absolutely fine and better for their teeth and gums than an exclusively wet food diet.  A bit of meat or fish is fine as a treat.  Tinned fish is also okay I believe, as long as it's in spring water and doesn't contain any other ingredients.

A couple of things to bear in mind though - cheap low quality dry food can be just as bad as, if not worse than, a wet diet, and if your cat lives to a ripe age you will probably need to (re)introduce some kind of wet food as dry food is harder to chew and digest for older cats.  Wet food in older age will also help increase/maintain weight as, even though they spend most of the day sleeping, they tend to lose weight easily.  Our cat is 18 in a couple of weeks and our vet has basically told us to give her whatever she'll eat now, so her diet, having previously been 99% dry food with 1% wet treats, is now two pouches of wet food a day and another bowl kept topped up with the same dry food we always gave her, and that will last three or four days.  Our vet does not sell or market any pet food products at all.

As an additional observation, everyone we know who's cat has had a mostly (good quality) dry food diet has lived a LOT longer than people we know with cats on an equivalent (good quality) wet food diet. 

[Dewt]

As an additional observation, everyone we know who's cat has had a mostly (good quality) dry food diet has lived a LOT longer than people we know with cats on an equivalent (good quality) wet food diet.

Argh this is the exact opposite of everything I've heard up until this point

[Shit Good Nose]

Sorry.  I can only go by my own frames of reference.  It could just easily be sheer coincidence, but the odds on that would be pretty high given the numbers.

[Dewt]

All of the results are so conflicting that I think I'm probably going to switch back to the dry food that the cats like more anyway and is much cheaper. I'll keep my ear to the ground for a bit longer, but the "wet food is better" thing is starting to sound like kitty paleo now.

[Marner and Me]

Our dogs get half a bowl of dry food mixed with half a tin of wet.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Do you have to give cats more water on dry food? It's my understanding that cats get most of their water from their food so don't drink much, unlike a dog, which likes a good go on a bowl full of water.

I was seeing someone briefly who had a cat that was a bit 'difficult' and they didn't leave a bowl out for it, it just used to hop on the counter and mew on the odd occasion it demanded water and they'd turn on a tap.

It also used to shit in the bath when I stayed over sometimes, apparently it did that when he was 'disappointed'.

By 'he' I mean the cat. It wasn't a reaction to the owner.

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

Feed it Whiskas and have it speutered.

[Dewt]

Do you have to give cats more water on dry food? It's my understanding that cats get most of their water from their food so don't drink much, unlike a dog, which likes a good go on a bowl full of water.

Yeah, they definitely need more water. I guess this can be a problem if the cat doesn't naturally drink enough, since all you can do is provide fresh water and hope they lap it up.

I was seeing someone briefly who had a cat that was a bit 'difficult' and they didn't leave a bowl out for it, it just used to hop on the counter and mew on the odd occasion it demanded water and they'd turn on a tap.

To a cat, running water = fresh and safe, so that's why they like taps etc. and why cat water fountains are so popular. I've stopped using the fountains though. Unless you clean them ALL THE TIME they get disgusting.

[Shit Good Nose]

All of the results are so conflicting that I think I'm probably going to switch back to the dry food that the cats like more anyway and is much cheaper. I'll keep my ear to the ground for a bit longer, but the "wet food is better" thing is starting to sound like kitty paleo now.

I've looked at that catinfo link and to me it sounds like they're talking about cheap supermarket dry food as opposed to proper nutritionally balanced dry food (which you will not find in a supermarket).  Every vet we've ever had has told us whatever we feed our cat, just avoid supermarket own dry food and also, if possible, Whiskas and Go Cat and the like (though those are preferable).  They also told us if we absolutely had to get supermarket own, make it wet pouches every single time as the equivalent quality is much better.

Do you have to give cats more water on dry food? It's my understanding that cats get most of their water from their food so don't drink much, unlike a dog, which likes a good go on a bowl full of water.

I was seeing someone briefly who had a cat that was a bit 'difficult' and they didn't leave a bowl out for it, it just used to hop on the counter and mew on the odd occasion it demanded water and they'd turn on a tap.

It also used to shit in the bath when I stayed over sometimes, apparently it did that when he was 'disappointed'.

By 'he' I mean the cat. It wasn't a reaction to the owner.

That might just be something as simple as the cat not liking drinking out of a bowl.  Ours was similarly difficult, but we noticed that she would quite happily drink from our glasses if we were having water.  So we replaced her bowl with a tumbler and immediately solved the problem.  Since then she's always drunk plenty of water.

[Dewt]

I've looked at that catinfo link and to me it sounds like they're talking about cheap supermarket dry food as opposed to proper nutritionally balanced dry food (which you will not find in a supermarket).

No, they're very hardline "even the worst wet cat food is better than any dry food". This is an attitude I've seen elsewhere recently, but I am really starting to wonder if that site isn't the main source of it all.

[Shit Good Nose]

In that case it's probably the feline equivalent of something causing definite cancer one year and then actually being good for you a year later.

Tl;dr - give them whatever they'll eat within reason.

[Dewt]

I think so. There's simply not enough data to be scientific about this, and too much bullshit floating around from Internet cranks and cat food manufacturers. So all that's left is to make informed choices not based in hyperbole, so what you're saying SGN makes good sense and I'll go with that.

My chewy.com autoship just went down from $210 per month to $88, fucking score

[paruses]

Kibble overtook canned food in the UK, for dogs at least. And good quality kibble is regarded better than tinned stuff.

Bonio used to give my housemate's dog the mustard shits though.

That's my experience.  A vet pointed out that companies spend a lot on R&D to produce a balanced and complete meal with biscuits (I have never called it kibble). It does depend on the brand though.
Burns is what I use and a 12.5 kg bag costs £33 off Amazon (sorry) with 15% off subscribe and save and is the cheapest i can find it. It's not the most expensive but is a premium brand. More expensive ones give the dogs the shits or they don't like it. Lasts two greyhounds about a month. The old lady greyhound is now exclusively on wet food and probably costs twice as much to feed.

[idunnosomename]

i looked after a cat last year and all you had to do was keep her bowl topped up with kibbles. she just helped herself and didn't overeat. marvellous. great doss all things considered.

dog i've looked after also fed on kibbles. they're great for treats on walkies, easy to portion and not as stinky and gross and tinned food. as far as I can the quality stuff is very well balanced and really does keep your animal healthy.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Can you not just let it outside to feast on birds and rodents and that?

[Shit Good Nose]

i looked after a cat last year and all you had to do was keep her bowl topped up with kibbles. she just helped herself and didn't overeat. marvellous. great doss all things considered.

That's the other thing with wet food - cats will gorge on it just like dogs, whereas with dry food they'll typically just eat as much as they need.  Having said that one friend of ours had yer stereotypical ginger tom and he exclusively ate dry food, but he'd eat it like Wotsits and got massive before he was put on a diet.  The fat bastard.

[Shit Good Nose]

Can you not just let it outside to feast on birds and rodents and that?

Problem with that is they tend to bring the corpses indoors as a little present for you.

[Dewt]

i looked after a cat last year and all you had to do was keep her bowl topped up with kibbles. she just helped herself and didn't overeat. marvellous. great doss all things considered.

That was the case with my last cat.
Definitely not the case with one of the big fat bastards I have now

[Pijlstaart]

We'd ratio it, some dry and some wet. The greasy cat Bomer much preferred dry food, but she never brushed her teeth and had terrible gingivitis. In the end the cat dentist pulled them all out and she became a gumming cat, which was admittedly rather sweet, and she didn't seem to mind. She'd still go for dry food even without the teeth.

[Dewt]

It really throws me for a loop when you write a serious post instead of an immaculately-crafted funny one

[Brian Freeze]

We've been on dry for many fu king years. Possibly twenty or more? It improves the quality of their turds among other things. Iams or Eukanuba mostly for dogs and cats.

Our geriatric feline has kidney disease so has specific renal diet, the dry isnt as popular with him and he loves licking the gravy off the wet pouches he has to have and leaving the chunks. So it gets mashed up with a fork. Last time he had his annual bloods done the numbers had gone down rather than up, which was nice. Getting them done tomorrow to see where he's at. He drinks from everything and everywhere except sinks and toilets. And his waterbowl.

[touchingcloth]

When did this happen? I swear it wasn't the case ten years ago.

This is why I made the thread - I'm not sure if this is just a "how my family feeds animals" thing.

I think it's been the case for working dogs for a very long time - the farmers I know have fed their collies and terriers on dry food for as long as I've been aware of such things.

I think wet versus dry is the wrong thing to focus on, and both types can be appropriate for cats and dogs if they're made well, and with the caveats upthread in mind that wet food can cause issues for some cats[nb]Seek a vet's advice for your pair.[/nb] while older cats may need to avoid dry food[nb]Again, seek a vet's advice.[/nb]

My understanding as an owner of both a dog and a cat, as someone who wants to feed them the most appropriate food for their health, and as someone who is a stingy fucker, is that cats as obligate carnivores need food which is on its way to 100% protein, and not bulked out with grains, whereas dogs can have a much lower protein content and as omnivores can tolerate some grains, though gluten tends to be bad for them so the higher quality foods will use rice or other bulkers in place of wheat.

We used to feed the dog Pure food, which is dehydrated high quality food which you reconstitute with hot water. He used to love it and thrive on it, but it's too expensive to ship out to Portugal now. They discontinued their cat food range which was also high quality but about twice the price of the dog's food due to the higher protein content.

I don't know if cat ownership is more common in Germany than the UK or if owners there care more for their pets, but there is a significant difference in the quality of tinned food available from German brands. We fed ours on the MAC's brand for the longest time - ordering it online from a German company, with no English language on their site! - but shipping costs to Portugal are somehow twice that to the UK so we don't use them any more. This is the place we used to by from - https://www.fuettern-mit-spass.de/content/macs-tiernahrung - but if you want to read about them in English to check out the ingredients and high protein content then check out https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/canned_cat_food_pouches/macs/cans/680964.

Currently both our animals are getting a mostly raw diet - we'll buy a whole chicken, take the breasts off for ourselves, freezer the larger bones for the dog to have and put the dark meat, offal and remaining bones through the grinder for both animals and then mixed with a BARF supplement (vitamins and other trace nutrients which are difficult to get the ratios correct with using solely raw ingredients) and a tiny amount of taurine supplement for the cat[nb]This is insanely expensive when bought from pet supply places, but much cheaper when bought from bodybuilder places instead. So our packet has some diagram of a flexed bicep or equivalent bullshit on.[/nb], with the cat getting just that as his diet and the dog's being supplemented with CSJ's "No Grainer" kibble when we were in the UK, switched to a similar thing from the local farm supply shop now. Both animals get given some oily tinned or frozen fish a couple of times a fortnight for the Omegas and whatnot.

It's a bit of an effort doing things this way, but you soon fall into a routine and it's nice knowing pretty much exactly what the animals are eating. It doesn't break the bank either - it's under £30 a month for the two of them (the dog is small at 9.5Kg, but at 6Kg when lean the cat is on the larger side).

We've been on dry for many fu king years. Possibly twenty or more? It improves the quality of their turds among other things. Iams or Eukanuba mostly for dogs and cats.

Our geriatric feline has kidney disease so has specific renal diet, the dry isnt as popular with him and he loves licking the gravy off the wet pouches he has to have and leaving the chunks.

Our cat had urinary issues once so needed a dry medicated food for a while which he wasn't crazy about, but enjoyed more when we mushed it up with some water as the vet suggested.

Another vote for the turd quality improver. I said in another thread recently that our dog doesn't smell out the house nor does his shites reek, which I think is almost exclusively down to his low gluten diet. If you come across a dog with soft, foul turds then odds are it is being given a cheap supermarket diet. "Cheap" being a relative term because it would cost us more to feed our boys on tinned supermarket foods.

[Dewt]

That sounds very informed but what if you accidentally put the cat in the grinder instead of the bones, hmm? If you haven't thought about basic things like that then I can't take you seriously.