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Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]

Started by dr_christian_troy, July 12, 2020, 12:00:51 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

oy vey

Another complaint is they should have EMHs all over the fucking shop for medical emergencies that let's face it could happen anywhere anytime. The amount of times a crew member falls unconscious or is otherwise mysteriously incapacitated, and a fellow crew member yells into a comm "Quark (or whoever was nearby) to infirmary, medical emergency in the bar (or wherever)." Unless someone beams straight from the infirmary I suppose that would work.

I understand why they don't have emergency hologram pilots, captains, chief engineers, etc. which could require advanced creative thinking but doctors are just fancy wikipedias, at least on first triage and treatment. Seconds count when you've been zapped by some alien cunt or whatever.

Nobody Soup

To be fair on that one* that would have the possible aside effect of allowing the infamously temperamental holodeck to take control of the ship, something it tries to do on an annual basis as it is while confined to a single area.

*a better reason though is maybe EMHs were just coming into use in voyager and were still relatively experimental.

Malcy

Quote from: oy vey on January 25, 2021, 10:45:10 PM
Another complaint is they should have EMHs all over the fucking shop for medical emergencies that let's face it could happen anywhere anytime. The amount of times a crew member falls unconscious or is otherwise mysteriously incapacitated, and a fellow crew member yells into a comm "Quark (or whoever was nearby) to infirmary, medical emergency in the bar (or wherever)." Unless someone beams straight from the infirmary I suppose that would work.

I understand why they don't have emergency hologram pilots, captains, chief engineers, etc. which could require advanced creative thinking but doctors are just fancy wikipedias, at least on first triage and treatment. Seconds count when you've been zapped by some alien cunt or whatever.

The Infirmary is right across from Quark's is it not. He could just shout! VOY did experiment with the Doctor having an ECH (Emergency Command Hologram) subroutine created.

purlieu

Looking for par'Mach in All the Wrong Places. I think that's out and out my favourite comedy episode so far. Kira's "get out" near the end was particularly funny.

Nor the Battle to the Strong. The horrors of war through the eyes of Jake Sisko. It doesn't offer any original insights on the topic, but it's all explored very well. We see wars and skirmishes all the time in the Star Trek universe, but this is the first time the impact of those is considered on this level.

The Assignment. Ah, I thought it'd been a few episodes since the writers last tortured O'Brien. The reveal about what was in possession of Keiko was interesting, and is adding more intrigue about the whole Prophets thing.

Trials and Tribble-ations. Well that was an absolute fucking joy.

Let He Who is Without Sin... Yes, well. There's some nice Worf stuff at the end, and despite the tedious and uncharacteristically conservative crap the puritan pillocks were spouting, I did enjoy the hint of foreboding in there. But it wasn't the strongest of episodes, even if Worf's more questionable behaviour has some reasoning behind it.

purlieu

Things Past. Started off as what I thought was just going to be another example of that old bodyswap sci-fi trope, but became more of a head-scratcher in the second half with a really bleak conclusion.

The Ascent. The Quark and Odo story here was great. I'm glad they went with the extremely understated warmth in the final scene, in a way that would have been undermined with a more typically sweet moment in TNG. Let down a bit by the Jake and Nog plot which was utterly unoriginal and resolved with no effort at all.

MojoJojo

Quote from: Nobody Soup on January 25, 2021, 10:29:57 PM
With data ones it's sort of understandable as he's a one of a kind, but enterprise has about dozen episodes with t'pol holding the shop together while everyone goes mad or unconscious or something. The federation would surely insist upon extensive cross species crews.

I've not watched much of Enterprise, but isn't the point that the Federation is only just starting out? Do they know anyone but the Vulcans at the start (um, they had that alien doctor I suppose). Probably a fair call for TOS, TNG and VOY though. While the federation is supposed to be this amazing alliance of hundreds of planets, it does seem to be dominated by white men. Some things never change I guess.

Quote from: oy vey on January 25, 2021, 10:45:10 PM
Another complaint is they should have EMHs all over the fucking shop for medical emergencies that let's face it could happen anywhere anytime. The amount of times a crew member falls unconscious or is otherwise mysteriously incapacitated, and a fellow crew member yells into a comm "Quark (or whoever was nearby) to infirmary, medical emergency in the bar (or wherever)." Unless someone beams straight from the infirmary I suppose that would work.

They're a new thing at the beginning of Voyager - also they're supposed to be a bit crap and it's only because he left on so long that he gets any good. One appears in First Contact and offers the Borg some topical cream.

I seem to remember when the holosuite was introduced in TNG it was presented as some brand new never seen before technology. Which doesn't really fit with it being in a seedy bar in a cardassian backwater a few years later, but ... meh. Trek's a bit weird about technological advancement.

Endicott

Quote from: MojoJojo on January 27, 2021, 10:39:00 AM
I've not watched much of Enterprise, but isn't the point that the Federation is only just starting out? Do they know anyone but the Vulcans at the start (um, they had that alien doctor I suppose). Probably a fair call for TOS, TNG and VOY though. While the federation is supposed to be this amazing alliance of hundreds of planets, it does seem to be dominated by white men. Some things never change I guess.

I thought that was Soup's entire point - that they haven't learnt any lessons from ENT.

I'd say it's one of the problems of creating a lazily written prequel, combined with the expectations of the various show's at the time they were written, budgetary constraints, etc.

Blumf

Quote from: MojoJojo on January 27, 2021, 10:39:00 AM
I seem to remember when the holosuite was introduced in TNG it was presented as some brand new never seen before technology. Which doesn't really fit with it being in a seedy bar in a cardassian backwater a few years later, but ... meh. Trek's a bit weird about technological advancement.

The ToS Enterprise had a holodeck ("rec room") in the animated series.

purlieu

Quote from: MojoJojo on January 27, 2021, 10:39:00 AMI seem to remember when the holosuite was introduced in TNG it was presented as some brand new never seen before technology. Which doesn't really fit with it being in a seedy bar in a cardassian backwater a few years later, but ... meh. Trek's a bit weird about technological advancement.
Continuity isn't what it could be on Star Trek, despite their best efforts. Trills are introduced on TNG as a seemingly alien (ahem) concept, yet a couple of years later we find out Dax has been a Federation officer for years and everyone seems to understand what she is.

Lemming

Voyager actually had humans in a minority, depending on whether or not you count Seven as human. Plus, the only white man was Paris, who was SHIT (at first anyway).

Quote from: purlieu on January 27, 2021, 11:26:07 AM
Continuity isn't what it could be on Star Trek, despite their best efforts. Trills are introduced on TNG as a seemingly alien (ahem) concept, yet a couple of years later we find out Dax has been a Federation officer for years and everyone seems to understand what she is.

Indeed, and they also seem to change the way the symbiont works - in DS9 it merges with the host's personality, while in TNG it seems to replace the host's personality.

If we accept DS9's retcon, then Riker's actions while trill'd are bizarrely hilarious.

dr_christian_troy

Quote from: MojoJojo on January 27, 2021, 10:39:00 AM
I seem to remember when the holosuite was introduced in TNG it was presented as some brand new never seen before technology. Which doesn't really fit with it being in a seedy bar in a cardassian backwater a few years later, but ... meh. Trek's a bit weird about technological advancement.

I see it as chancers (such as the Ferengi) jumping on an opportunity to exploit technology for pleasure and profit - perhaps in the same way that the internet was initially perceived as a gateway to information and communication, and quickly became just as viable as a gateway for gambling and hardcore graphic pornography.

oy vey

Good points all above.

Quark's holosuites are always in bad need of maintenance, at least in later seasons. More due to lack of engineer time than anything else.

earl_sleek

Or boatloads of Klingon cum gumming up the emitters.

Probably a well known thought in fan circles but I just twigged whilst re-watching the Visitor that if old Jake hadn't bothered to save Sisko the Dominion War would never had happened and millions of lives would have been saved (including Jadzia).

With the butterfly effect of such a mass event not happening you can also suppose that as per Discovery
Spoiler alert
the Kelpiens wouldn't have ended up in that radioactive nebula, there would have been no Burn, and the Federation wouldn't have collapsed.
[close]
Jake Sisko, the greatest monster of the age.

dr_christian_troy

Quote from: oy vey on January 25, 2021, 10:45:10 PM
Another complaint is they should have EMHs all over the fucking shop for medical emergencies that let's face it could happen anywhere anytime. The amount of times a crew member falls unconscious or is otherwise mysteriously incapacitated, and a fellow crew member yells into a comm "Quark (or whoever was nearby) to infirmary, medical emergency in the bar (or wherever)." Unless someone beams straight from the infirmary I suppose that would work.

If Discovery finds a "relic" ship in a future episode and Robert Picardo turns up as the EMH, losing his mind in a Rimmer-style way, I would be very happy.

purlieu

Rapture. That was a bit of a game-changer. Will have to see how things play out, but it's the first time in ages that the show has seemingly set in place elements of the future. Had I not known anything about the show, the line about the "forthcoming war with the Dominion" would have given me shivers. Excellent. Also enjoyed the attention to detail of them all suddenly being in the First Contact uniforms in the episode immediately following the film.


MojoJojo

Quote from: purlieu on January 15, 2021, 12:41:44 AM
Shattered Mirror. Some fun bits, and this Garak seems to have basically turned into our one, but I still can't really be arsed with the mirror universe stuff that much. The Jennifer storyline also failed to land emotionally for me.

Yeah, it feels mostly like it's just for the cast to have fun. Like fancy dress day at school. Couple of meta-niggles
1) Parallel dimension Worf turning up just highlighted the weird logic of the place.
2) The upped the S&M factor a surprising amount - not sure they'd get away with it now.
3) If you think about the Jennifer & Jake storyline much, it's really fucked up and would be massively traumatising for Jake. But they've always shied away from Jake having to deal with his dead mum.

purlieu

Yeah, the mirror universe's cartoon logic really doesn't fit in with any of the post-TOS universe at all. As a one-off revisit it'd be quite fun, but I'm already tired of it.

The Begotten. I think Odo is my favourite Star Trek character now. That was a really beautiful episode. Some nice comic relief from Kira's birth too.

For the Uniform. Bloody hell, Sisko really going for it there. Quite uncomfortable to watch in some places. Was the tediously long take-off scene meant as a homage to the TOS films? It went on forever.

In Purgatory's Shadow. Fucking hell, the shit finally hit the fan.

Malcy

Quote from: purlieu on January 29, 2021, 12:06:06 AM
Yeah, the mirror universe's cartoon logic really doesn't fit in with any of the post-TOS universe at all. As a one-off revisit it'd be quite fun, but I'm already tired of it.

The Begotten. I think Odo is my favourite Star Trek character now. That was a really beautiful episode. Some nice comic relief from Kira's birth too.

For the Uniform. Bloody hell, Sisko really going for it there. Quite uncomfortable to watch in some places. Was the tediously long take-off scene meant as a homage to the TOS films? It went on forever.

In Purgatory's Shadow. Fucking hell, the shit finally hit the fan.

Thought the Kira having the O'Brien's baby was a bit daft but between the birth scenes and Worf's reaction of "NOW"?! when told Keiko is having a baby it's worth it. The reveal that Bashir on the station is a Changeling means that it was the Changeling Bashir that performed the brain surgery on Sisko in the Rapture!

oy vey

I think the forever Defiant launch scene was to emphasise how fucked the ship was. I thought the Sisko playing the villian was cheesy but he got his man. The Begotten is superb. How Rene Aub...whatever was able to bring such emotion to scenes with a beaker of goo.

An tSaoi

On an unrelated note, if I was Chief O'Brien I'd be asking some serious questions. That kid looks full Asian.

Unrelated note, geddit? Eh?

purlieu

Quote from: Malcy on January 29, 2021, 12:18:43 AMThe reveal that Bashir on the station is a Changeling means that it was the Changeling Bashir that performed the brain surgery on Sisko in the Rapture!
Is there specific time given between the episodes? That could have been six weeks before, for example.

By Inferno's Light. Wasn't expecting a Cardassian / Klingon reversal there. Very exciting stuff, really enjoyed that. I love how strong every character is at this point, too. Garak is still a particular highlight, he was really on form in this two parter.

Dr. Bashir, I Presume. Thought this would be one of those light, comedy episodes, but it headed off into the kind of ethical story that DS9 has largely failed at so far. The resolution was a touch underwhelming, but I thought it was a very good episode.

A Simple Investigation. Another week, another heartbreak for Odo. Rene Auberjonois gives another incredible performance. Christ knows what changeling sex involves, though.

Business as Usual. Given the back-and-forth moral ambiguity of Quark over the years, it's nice to see him shine as a thoughtful character here. The dream sequence was pretty naff, which let it down a touch. Sisko giving Quark a bollocking near the start was a highlight.

Poobum

Quote from: purlieu on January 30, 2021, 11:44:38 PM
Is there specific time given between the episodes? That could have been six weeks before, for example.

There was a uniform change, with the captured Bashir wearing the older version, allowing you to pinpoint when changeling Bashir replaced him.

purlieu

Ah, yes. So it is indeed before Rapture, then.

oy vey

Quote from: purlieu on January 30, 2021, 11:44:38 PM
Is there specific time given between the episodes? That could have been six weeks before, for example.

By Inferno's Light. Wasn't expecting a Cardassian / Klingon reversal there. Very exciting stuff, really enjoyed that. I love how strong every character is at this point, too. Garak is still a particular highlight, he was really on form in this two parter.

Dr. Bashir, I Presume. Thought this would be one of those light, comedy episodes, but it headed off into the kind of ethical story that DS9 has largely failed at so far. The resolution was a touch underwhelming, but I thought it was a very good episode.

A Simple Investigation. Another week, another heartbreak for Odo. Rene Auberjonois gives another incredible performance. Christ knows what changeling sex involves, though.

Business as Usual. Given the back-and-forth moral ambiguity of Quark over the years, it's nice to see him shine as a thoughtful character here. The dream sequence was pretty naff, which let it down a touch. Sisko giving Quark a bollocking near the start was a highlight.

I was never happy with them shoehorning in Bashir's genetic enhancement but on subsequent DS9 binges I've gotten used to it. Nothing earlier seems to contradict it... much.

Great to see Robert Picardo. And Steven Berkoff in Business As Usual. Silly character but entertaining.

Poobum

I wonder what Lawrence Tierney stole from the set.

Malcy

First Contact takes place between The Rapture & By Inferno's Light. There was supposed to be a mention of it in the latter but it was cut.

purlieu

Ties of Blood and Water. A sad tale, but not the most remarkable. I did really enjoy Gul Dukat being hit in the face by the ornament Kira threw, though.

Soldiers of the Empire. Lots of fun. If that were made now, I would be convinced it was written as a backdoor pilot for a spinoff: I'd happily watch a ramshackle, partially downtrodden bunch of Klingons like that on their adventures.

Ferengi Love Songs. Felt like a sci-fi sitcom pilot by a Tim Burton fanboy.

Children of Time. Well that was quite a change of pace. With a different ending it could have been a TNG story. A nice slow pace without being boring.

daf

#298
Quote from: Malcy on January 31, 2021, 12:57:37 AM
First Contact takes place between The Rapture & By Inferno's Light. There was supposed to be a mention of it in the latter but it was cut.

If anyone's attempting to weave Voyager episodes, as well as the movies, into their DS9 marathon, here's how my viewing guide orders them :
Quote546 DS9 Rapture
547 DS9 The Darkness and the Light
548 VOY Macrocosm
549 VOY Fair Trade
550 VOY Alter Ego
551 DS9 The Begotten
552 DS9 For the Uniform
553 VOY Coda
554 VOY Blood Fever
555 MOV First Contact
556 DS9 In Purgatory's Shadow
557 DS9 By Inferno's Light

purlieu

Oh, that's you? I used that site to put all my episodes in order before deciding not to watch them interlinked anyway.