Author Topic: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]  (Read 26802 times)

Dex Sawash

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Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #60 on: August 13, 2020, 12:42:31 PM »
Was going to rewatch DS9, haven't watched since they were new so I missed some of them. I think there are too many of theme though.

I've told CaB before that I wanted Bashir to bulk up a bit and be the next Bond.
Just checked and if anything he has gotten thinner. Still, Dalton was a disappointment.

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #61 on: August 13, 2020, 01:22:23 PM »
Move Along Home is probably the second worst episode of DS9. Somone on Star Trek Shitposting said recently that it would have worked better as a Farscape episode which kinda makes sense.
Yeah, that's a good call actually.

Vortex: That feels like the most classically character-based Trek story so far. Lovely stuff for Odo, the first real sign of character growth in the show so far, and the first time we've seen him smile. A wonderful episode.

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #62 on: August 14, 2020, 05:59:24 PM »
Battle Lines. A pretty generic and underwhelming main story - the sort of thing that could have been in any '90s syndication sci-fi's first series - but the underlying Bajoran stuff with Kai Opaka, prophecies, and her promise that she'll meet Sisko again were intriguing. And it was nice to see they've decided to try out giving Kira a character.
Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abdurrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi is still totally underwhelming in any situation where he's asked to show anything resembling range.

Zetetic

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Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #63 on: August 14, 2020, 08:47:21 PM »
I'd also forgotten how enjoyable Brooks is as Mirror Sisko. (Not a massive spoiler, as Star Trek goes, but still.)

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #64 on: August 15, 2020, 05:12:46 PM »
The Storyteller: Pretty dull and naff story, somewhat saved by Chief O'Brien and 'Julian' being funny. O'Brien really is turning into Ted Crilly at this point.

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #65 on: August 17, 2020, 01:15:19 PM »
Progress. Bit of an odd one, the main story is something we've seen dozens of times on Star Trek before, but it was handled in a different way, and Mullibok played very well off Kira, who once again is given chance to move beyond 'one dimension grumpy woman'. Jake and Nog's trading on DS9 was pretty funny but strangely inconsequential. The pacing seemed very strange though, as if the writers weren't quite sure where they wanted the story to go. The end felt almost like a cliffhanger.

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #66 on: August 17, 2020, 07:06:50 PM »
If Wishes Were Horses. Something that's puzzling me about the show so far is, on a creative level, why it even exists. I know there'll be stuff coming later on that sets it apart, but at this stage it's not really telling any new stories or even new types of stories. Just about every element of this episode was stuff that's been covered, many times, in TOS and TNG. At this point, it's the humour that's keeping the show afloat, and this was another that was a lot of fun to watch - especially Bashir's Fantasy Dax - but the overall feel is still pretty lightweight.

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #67 on: August 18, 2020, 01:44:37 PM »
The Forsaken. That one had some really nice stuff. Started with the usual comedy runaround - O'Brien vs. the computer, Bashir lumped with annoying ambassadors, Lwaxana coming onto Odo - but the (expected) Odo development was really touching. He's by far the standout character so far, and stuff like that makes it really watchable. The overall probe/computer plot was more interesting than the bulk of the stories so far too.

Zetetic

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Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #68 on: August 18, 2020, 11:02:30 PM »
Something that's puzzling me about the show so far is, on a creative level, why it even exists. I know there'll be stuff coming later on that sets it apart, but at this stage it's not really telling any new stories or even new types of stories. Just about every element of this episode was stuff that's been covered, many times, in TOS and TNG. At this point, it's the humour that's keeping the show afloat, and this was another that was a lot of fun to watch - especially Bashir's Fantasy Dax - but the overall feel is still pretty lightweight.
Just wanted to say I thought this was interesting. It sort of feels deliberate that everything is so light at the start, although it also feels a little odd insofar as it jars a bit with the recent history of Sisko and Bajor.

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #69 on: August 19, 2020, 12:13:03 AM »
Yeah, I'm finding it hard to tell exactly how deliberate it is, because it's often so light-hearted it almost feels close to a sitcom. As I think I said earlier, The Lower Decks could obviously learn a lot from this series. At the same time, there's such a dark undercurrent, albeit one that's barely touched on, that it's quite a strange mix.

Lemming

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Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #70 on: August 19, 2020, 04:31:42 AM »
I like the tone of early DS9. Everything's relatively upbeat as you'd expect from a traditional Star Trek series but the ghosts of the Cardassian occupation keep cropping back up and giving everything, as you say, a dark undercurrent.

There's a quasi-sitcom tone for sure. Sisko's situation is inherently kind of funny - he wanted to quit Starfleet not long ago but now he's become a religious figure completely against his will and he's therefore more or less stuck on a really shitty broken-down space station, spending a good chunk of his time dealing with completely inane problems. No doubt Brooks' performance is utterly weird, but in the first few seasons I felt like he imbued Sisko with a degree of exasperation and thinly-veiled frustration, which endeared me to him a lot.

Enjoying the rewatch. I'm in a (very?) small minority, but I think the early seasons (s2 - s5, more or less) are the best, while the later Dominion War stuff gets very tedious very quickly, so it's always fun to revisit the initial episodes.

Chairman Yang

  • life changing
Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #71 on: August 19, 2020, 04:01:09 PM »
Of all the Stars Trek, I think DS9 is the one that seems the most appealing to live in. I can't really imagine living on a cruise ship or on some utopian earth full of boring crackers, but being a jobber on a Nazi dustbin full of angry morons just trying to get by is quite a comforting idea. Things don't have to be perfect to be better.

Zetetic

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Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #72 on: August 19, 2020, 05:53:04 PM »
Frequent reminders that at least you're not living either on Bajor or in the Cardassian Empire would be source of comfort, I imagine.

No doubt Brooks' performance is utterly weird, but in the first few seasons I felt like he imbued Sisko with a degree of exasperation and thinly-veiled frustration, which endeared me to him a lot.
I think I'd agree with this. Some of the confusion I feel about his portrayal at times is, I reckon, to do with wandering back-and-forth between watching Brooks doing some acting and watching Sisko putting on a front.

Love his grin.

Wonderful Butternut

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Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #73 on: August 19, 2020, 08:43:48 PM »
Enjoying the rewatch. I'm in a (very?) small minority, but I think the early seasons (s2 - s5, more or less) are the best, while the later Dominion War stuff gets very tedious very quickly, so it's always fun to revisit the initial episodes.

The buildup to The Dominion War from season 3 onwards is probably better than the War itself. Season 6 was okay, but I thought it went badly off the rails in Season 7.

Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #74 on: August 19, 2020, 08:52:39 PM »
No doubt Brooks' performance is utterly weird, but in the first few seasons I felt like he imbued Sisko with a degree of exasperation and thinly-veiled frustration, which endeared me to him a lot.

Enjoying the rewatch. I'm in a (very?) small minority, but I think the early seasons (s2 - s5, more or less) are the best, while the later Dominion War stuff gets very tedious very quickly, so it's always fun to revisit the initial episodes.

I would agree with the Brooks talk. He becomes more consistent later so I would guess the unevenness of his earlier performances is a lot to do with the writers not really knowing who Sisko is early on (especially in the first season) which leads to Brooks trying to add something to the character even if it doesn't always work. He veers between standard calm Star Trek captain type and ANGRY man, sometimes in the same sentence. If you were being generous to the show you could say early on he, Sisko, doesn't want to really be there whereas later on he is more comfortable in his own skin.

I don't think your best seasons are so crazy; I would knock it on a season, 3-6, for really good DS9 but I think 4 and 5 are the show at its best.

purlieu

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Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #75 on: August 19, 2020, 09:03:55 PM »
Sisko's grin is fantastic, totally disarming.

Dramatis Personae: Our first mind-altered personalities episode. Done pretty well, I enjoyed how subtly it was played at first and gradually ramped up, adding a real sense of discomfort to the episode. The only part I wasn't entirely sure about was Dax becoming a bit... ditzy. Not sure how that fitted in with everything else going on. I loved Sisko's clock.

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #76 on: August 21, 2020, 08:38:17 PM »
Duet. Well that was a dramatic shift in tone. What a fantastic episode. Some incredible dark stuff in there, combined with the revelation which was really moving. Kira was given a step towards some peace, and it added some much-needed depth to the occasionally one-dimensional villainy of the Cardassians. That's easily the best episode so far.

Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #77 on: August 21, 2020, 09:21:02 PM »
Next episode is the introduction of in my opinion DS9's greatest baddie Vedek Winn.

Zetetic

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Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #78 on: August 21, 2020, 11:24:29 PM »
And thereby begin wondering if the Cardassian Occupation might have been the lesser evil.

Wonderful Butternut

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Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #79 on: August 22, 2020, 12:39:26 AM »
Duet. Well that was a dramatic shift in tone. What a fantastic episode. Some incredible dark stuff in there, combined with the revelation which was really moving. Kira was given a step towards some peace, and it added some much-needed depth to the occasionally one-dimensional villainy of the Cardassians. That's easily the best episode so far.

Clip time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y2dBhj8sOM

Marritza was a bit nutty over and above having PTSD from the camp though. His plan would fall apart under any sort of worthwhile investigation that he had to know was going to come somewhere, especially going through DS9 with a Starfleet presence on board. Not to mention there was literally no way the Cardassians wouldn't have objected and waved all the evidence that he wasn't Gul Darheel in the air had he got to trial, and ultimately Cardassian society would probably dismiss him as a nut once it was all done and dusted and not take on any of his guilt over the Occupation.

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #80 on: August 22, 2020, 04:06:08 PM »
In the Hands of the Prophets. Another dark one to close the series. These last two have been so different to the bulk of the series, and seem to suggest ways the show might go in the future. Although the orthadox vs. modern religion idea is far from original, it was handled well, and Vedek Winn was a wonderfully deplorable character. And Keiko was actually involved in the plot for once. Good stuff.

Overall I'm not sure what to make of that first season. I definitely found it pretty enjoyable, but as more of a light-hearted romp of a show than I was expecting. Fun, but slight.

And so on to Season 2...

Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #81 on: August 22, 2020, 04:09:27 PM »
Those last two (brilliant) episodes point the way to the future, although it's a slow build. Season 2 is cracking, by the way.

Blumf

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Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #82 on: August 22, 2020, 04:54:35 PM »
I never got on with that Winn Adami character. She was just too obviously dodgy without any charisma to explain her popularity with the wider Bajoran population[1]. At least with the other bad guys in the show you can see why people might respect them; they have leadership, charisma, or just plain genetically engineered them to follow (but even there, there's a certain cool dignity to the Founders).

She should have been a Slick Willy Clinton type character, full of charm but pulling the strings to her advantage quietly. Instead she's creepy uncle Biden, but without the leg hairs to brush.
 1. Noting that the Bajorans are complete dipshits when it comes to religious matters

Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #83 on: August 22, 2020, 05:22:26 PM »
I like the tone of early DS9. Everything's relatively upbeat as you'd expect from a traditional Star Trek series but the ghosts of the Cardassian occupation keep cropping back up and giving everything, as you say, a dark undercurrent.

There's a quasi-sitcom tone for sure. Sisko's situation is inherently kind of funny - he wanted to quit Starfleet not long ago but now he's become a religious figure completely against his will and he's therefore more or less stuck on a really shitty broken-down space station, spending a good chunk of his time dealing with completely inane problems. No doubt Brooks' performance is utterly weird, but in the first few seasons I felt like he imbued Sisko with a degree of exasperation and thinly-veiled frustration, which endeared me to him a lot.

Enjoying the rewatch. I'm in a (very?) small minority, but I think the early seasons (s2 - s5, more or less) are the best, while the later Dominion War stuff gets very tedious very quickly, so it's always fun to revisit the initial episodes.

I would say there is an argument that the threat of the dominion was more effective than the actual war, the Garak/Tain story especially I think was arguably the highpoint of the show and the former was never quite as interesting afterwards.

Perhaps an argument that Babylon 5 took the correct path in wrapping up its big conflicts quite quickly when the action really started and indeed that it didn't try and resolve them all at once.

Dex Sawash

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Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #84 on: August 22, 2020, 10:28:14 PM »
I have started. Almost skipped the first one due to length + being the first one. Glad I didn't because it is very good. Unusual ( I think) that they managed to find a good plot reason to do all the character development back story.

Sin Agog

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Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #85 on: August 22, 2020, 11:04:44 PM »
I'm sad they didn't make the whole series about increasingly intense games of hopscotch.

Ambient Sheep

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Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #86 on: August 22, 2020, 11:10:07 PM »
I have started...

I've been so enthralled by these mini-reviews that I'm feeling the urge to revisit them all myself!  I might even do it...

petrilTanaka

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Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #87 on: August 23, 2020, 07:27:46 AM »
Cirroc Lofton(Jake Sisko) does not appear in this episode


saved you going to Memory Alpha for the episode recaps

dr_christian_troy

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Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #88 on: August 23, 2020, 01:11:40 PM »
I've been watching DS9 for the first time in the last month or so and am now up to Season 6. The episode In The Cards from Season 5 is a recent favourite, with the narrative reversal of the fun A Plot and more serious B Plot working out very well indeed. Really lovely stuff.

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Star Trek - Deep Space Nine [split topic]
« Reply #89 on: August 25, 2020, 07:24:13 PM »
The Homecoming / The Circle / The Siege. A three parter! Coo. Continuing with the much darker approach from the end of the first season. A really well paced story, enjoyed the tension building throughout.
It managed to retain some of the more sitcommy qualities... I really enjoyed the farcical scene in Kira's quarters at the start of The Circle, and Quark as Odo's deputy was wonderful.

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