Labour Party Desolation v2: a beige loafer stamping on a human face forever

[Clatty McCutcheon]

on second reading I cannot see any sarcasm, unless it is what passes as Über-Centrist Sarcasm.

Come on, Blodwyn, read the last paragraph again; you don't think the reference to Wadsworth as unjustly-expelled would be jarringly at odds with the rest of the sentiment if you were meant to take the rest of the post at face value. I think you need to take a rest - go out and try to relax a bit.

[BlodwynPig]

Come on, Blodwyn, read the last paragraph again; you don't think the reference to Wadsworth as unjustly-expelled would be jarringly at odds with the rest of the sentiment if you were meant to take the rest of the post at face value. I think you need to take a rest - go out and try to relax a bit.

you didn't need to add the last passive-aggressive statement, so please refrain from telling me what you think I need to do - otherwise fair point. However, if you attempt sarcasm, why populate most of the post with incredulous nonsense and baiting? It's pathetic. I'm sorry, it wasn't necessary and it wasn't funny.

Edit: must be the heat, a third re-read with Clatty's framing, ok, I get it. Sorry PCS.

[pancreas]

Blodders, you of all people...

I also misread it at first though.

[chveik]

I agree that it's a shit post, but not for the same reasons

[BlodwynPig]

Blodders, you of all people...

I also misread it at first though.

Its hot in here!! OK OK OK. We need to be primed to swat away bullshit. If it looks like bullshit it probably is bullshit, but sometimes its only rainbow deer droppings masquerading as bullshit.

[pcsjwgm]

OK, to clear up any confusion, here are my sincere beliefs:
- Diane Abbott and Chris Williamson have been wrong, even very wrong, in the past.
- But Abbott and Williamson are decent, progressive people, who have done and continue to do great work to advance progressive causes, so I believe neither of them should be written off completely. (All the stuff done by Williamson that I mentioned in the last paragraph are actually good, and those things should not mean nothing to us.) They should obviously be given the opportunity to learn from their mistakes, and in most cases they already have.
- We should always defend them (and others like Marc Wadsworth) from vicious attacks and smears because it's the right thing to do, even if some twat thinks it would be a strategic blunder not to sacrifice them for the purpose of appeasing anti-left attack dogs, whose determination to smear a progressive Labour Party wouldn't abate anyway.
- I brought up Diane Abbott because I think it's hypocritical that the "optics left" are (rightly) so eager to defend Diane Abbott but also happy to throw Chris Williamson under the bus. The latter is justified by ad hoc reference to, e.g., Williamson's support for intervention in Libya, but the exact same thing applies to Abbott.

[BlodwynPig]

Thank you for the clarification. Hair trigger here. Rightly or wrongly.

Confidence.

[chveik]

OK, to clear up any confusion, here are my sincere beliefs:
- Diane Abbott and Chris Williamson have been wrong, even very wrong, in the past.
- But Abbott and Williamson are decent, progressive people, who have done and continue to do great work to advance progressive causes, so I believe neither of them should be written off completely. (All the stuff done by Williamson that I mentioned in the last paragraph are actually good, and those things should not mean nothing to us.) They should obviously be given the opportunity to learn from their mistakes, and in most cases they already have.
- We should always defend them (and others like Marc Wadsworth) from vicious attacks and smears because it's the right thing to do, even if some twat thinks it would be a strategic blunder not to sacrifice them for the purpose of appeasing anti-left attack dogs, whose determination to smear a progressive Labour Party wouldn't abate anyway.
- I brought up Diane Abbott because I think it's hypocritical that the "optics left" are (rightly) so eager to defend Diane Abbott but also happy to throw Chris Williamson under the bus. The latter is justified by ad hoc reference to, e.g., Williamson's support for intervention in Libya, but the exact same thing applies to Abbott.

this wasn't really about the right wing smears. I know they've been subjected to horrendous attacks but at the same time would you trust people so ignorant regarding western interventionism  to have a high position in your socialist movement?

[BlodwynPig]

What do you mean ignorant?

[chveik]

What do you mean ignorant?

supporting the NATO intervention in Libya for instance

[BlodwynPig]

supporting the NATO intervention in Libya for instance

A grave misstep. Anything else?

[chveik]

oh and Syria too.

these things would've happened without their votes I guess but still it's depressing how low our standards are

[Jakey Chesterton]

OK, to clear up any confusion, here are my sincere beliefs:
- Diane Abbott and Chris Williamson have been wrong, even very wrong, in the past.
- But Abbott and Williamson are decent, progressive people, who have done and continue to do great work to advance progressive causes, so I believe neither of them should be written off completely. (All the stuff done by Williamson that I mentioned in the last paragraph are actually good, and those things should not mean nothing to us.) They should obviously be given the opportunity to learn from their mistakes, and in most cases they already have.
- We should always defend them (and others like Marc Wadsworth) from vicious attacks and smears because it's the right thing to do, even if some twat thinks it would be a strategic blunder not to sacrifice them for the purpose of appeasing anti-left attack dogs, whose determination to smear a progressive Labour Party wouldn't abate anyway.
- I brought up Diane Abbott because I think it's hypocritical that the "optics left" are (rightly) so eager to defend Diane Abbott but also happy to throw Chris Williamson under the bus. The latter is justified by ad hoc reference to, e.g., Williamson's support for intervention in Libya, but the exact same thing applies to Abbott.

Yeah. You'd think from the way this has become a common line that there was some big british lefty non-fringe united front aganst war on Libya that definitely had loads of popular support and was at the top of peoples' priorities lists, which Williamson shamefully split from. There wasn't and there isn't about similar stuff now (has novara even mentioned e.g., the opcw douma leaks?). He was completely wrong, like you say, but in a way which is borderline ubiquitous here. Wising up after the fact doesn't change what he did but it's still something and I've never heard anyone else get brought up over it in the same way as Williamson.

Like you say it seems to be some sort of specious trick-shot logic-move: don't want to have to stand up for him (painting a target on yourself) but also don't want to have to justify not defending him by defending the smears (blatant bollocks; makes you look bad). So bypass the whole thing with saying you hate him for, uhhh... Libya?

[BlodwynPig]

oh and Syria too.

these things would've happened without their votes I guess but still it's depressing how low our standards are

it is

[jobotic]

Put it in the Glinner thread but Rosie Duffield gets ever more loathsome

https://twitter.com/RosieDuffield1/status/1289498350857977858

[olliebean]

Put it in the Glinner thread but Rosie Duffield gets ever more loathsome

https://twitter.com/RosieDuffield1/status/1289498350857977858

Her tweets are blocked from all but approved followers. Always a good sign for a public servant.

[jobotic]

They weren't when I posted.

She's a terf as well as everything else. And anyone who disagrees with her is a male communist.

[Paul Calf]

oh and Syria too.

these things would've happened without their votes I guess but still it's depressing how low our standards are

Yeah, with this wealth of talent we have to choose from.

You can only piss with the cock you've got.

[Buelligan]

I don't have a cock.  Unless I can use my boss.

[jobotic]

https://twitter.com/Sarah_Cundy/status/1289292013532192769

Duffield locks her account and now all the IstandwithJKRowling lot are piling onto Sarah Cundy. Who seems rather good to me.

[Buelligan]

Piers Morgan needs a good shoeing for that and all.  Ignorant malicious thoughtless stuff.

Apart from any other consideration, even if you buy into the transphobe shit entirely, are we now going to remind everyone that, if, for any reason (and there are many) you're not currently in possession of a cock, tits, some shit, you are not a real/whole person?  Fucking die in a ditch, pill.  I sincerely hope they come for yours next.

[BlodwynPig]

Lives of great men all remind us
We may make our lives sublime
And departing leave behind us
Footprints in the sands of time
Of hewn stones the sacred circle
Where the wizard sages sat
Let us try to remember
All the times where they were at

So your thoughts, they were expecting
Assault and battery on the human anatomy
Assault and battery on the human anatomy, man

[jobotic]

https://twitter.com/BrendanChilton/status/1289308280653615104

I don't know what LabbourFutureUK is, but imagine sharing a party with these people.

[Johnny Yesno]

https://twitter.com/Sarah_Cundy/status/1289292013532192769

Duffield locks her account and now all the IstandwithJKRowling lot are piling onto Sarah Cundy. Who seems rather good to me.

Could take being mocked for her stupid position on nitrous oxide.

[BlodwynPig]

Could take being mocked for her stupid position on nitrous oxide.

I see some cheeky emojis there. Kate Hoey is a real Mess. A waste.

[JaDanketies]

Trans advocates being dismissed as communists is #peakkier

now I notice that she's the one who got nitrous in the news again, she can gtfo. A return to the Blair years with an added Trump twist

[Johnny Yesno]

[jobotic]

That can't be real. I mean it could but....

Our local centrist filth Councillor has dismissed all those who object to her transphobia as the momentum 6%,. What does that mean?

Is transphobia the default sensible position of the grown up party?

[Johnny Yesno]

That can't be real. I mean it could but....

I did wonder about that. Still, truthiness...

[JaDanketies]

Is transphobia the default sensible position of the grown up party?

I think when they say 'Corbyn wasn't electable' they mean 'he wasn't quite prejudiced enough'. I think Labour Party HQ think you've gotta be prejudiced and bigoted enough to get the working-class Sun reader on-board but not prejudiced enough to be anathema to the middle class metropolitan. (this is not a representation on my beliefs about working class or middle class people)

Or perhaps that you've gotta be bigoted enough for Murdoch and Dacre to occasionally say something positive, but not so bigoted that you dissuade all these university folk on social media.