Labour Party Desolation v2: a beige loafer stamping on a human face forever

[Buelligan]

I don't get what he's supposed to do exactly? Is he supposed to support Welsh Labour and say masks don't need to be mandatory in shops? I'm pro masks and while the tories have brought in the rule way too late, I do support it. He's saying the situation is different in Wales from England, It's fair to say that things might be low enough there that they don't need the mask thing, I think it's such an easy thing to do I think it should be in place for a good while personally. 

What should he have said on this? I just don't see the point of complaining if he disagrees with welsh labour on anything, or agrees with anything the tories do just for the sake of it. Mandatory masks is a good thing, just brought in too late.

He should know whether there's a good scientific reason for mask-wearing and answer according to that.  Masks, of the type we're speaking of anyway, are not worn for party-political reasons.

Give the guy a break; like 99% of UK Labour members, he's no idea what Wales even are.

They can be killed with masks apparently.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/science-environment-53287940/coronavirus-the-masks-you-throw-away-could-end-up-killing-a-whale

[Cursus]

Has this been posted yet?

I saw from the inside how Labour staff worked to prevent a Labour government

[thugler]

He should know whether there's a good scientific reason for mask-wearing and answer according to that.  Masks, of the type we're speaking of anyway, are not worn for party-political reasons.

Would that not mean he would say 'the tories are right' which would not be a good idea for obvious reasons. It's a leading question.

Pretty sure it's settled that masks prevent spreading the virus if not getting it, which is a good enough reason. I think Wales have it wrong, but I wouldn't want to be seen as saying 'welsh labour are wrong the the tories are right' on tv either.

[BlodwynPig]

So are you for or against wearing masks in shops?

I'm against wilful support of totalitarianism masquerading as passive consent

[BlodwynPig]

Would that not mean he would say 'the tories are right' which would not be a good idea for obvious reasons. It's a leading question.

holy batshit, bobbin!

madness. Fuck politics, this is a public health crisis. I wish destruction on Boris, but if he had a Damascene conversion tomorrow and did the right thing by the people, that would be better than Starmer's black void approach

[thugler]

Still not bothering to say what you would have said..

[BlodwynPig]

Still not bothering to say what you would have said..

Why THE FUCK should I, I am not the leader of the opposition.

For the record, he should have said that Masking should be a legal requirement in all enclosed spaces.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/i-saw-inside-how-labour-staff-worked-prevent-labour-government/

More fucking angering depressing shit.

[BlodwynPig]

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/i-saw-inside-how-labour-staff-worked-prevent-labour-government/

More fucking angering depressing shit.

Any comments from "our" Beige "leader"?

[Buelligan]

Would that not mean he would say 'the tories are right' which would not be a good idea for obvious reasons. It's a leading question.

Pretty sure it's settled that masks prevent spreading the virus if not getting it, which is a good enough reason. I think Wales have it wrong, but I wouldn't want to be seen as saying 'welsh labour are wrong the the tories are right' on tv either.

This is bizarre.  Right through the piece, he's said he's not playing party politics, especially where the pandemic's concerned, he's emphasised repeatedly his desire to be a constructive and supportive opposition.  Speaking plainly about facts, especially when it does not undermine that previously given and repeated position, seems entirely appropriate. 

He wants to be all things to all people, not possible and not what the planet needs.  We need people to speak up clearly for what is right.  Right now.

[Buelligan]

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/i-saw-inside-how-labour-staff-worked-prevent-labour-government/

More fucking angering depressing shit.

I've got to the bit about the FB ads so far and feel more angry than I have in a long while.  What makes it worse is these people were having takeaways and Starbucks and holidays and earning pensions and chekky Chardonnays and taking taxis and shoe shopping and turning up the heating and all the other shit people like me can't have, can't afford, and they were doing it because we were paying them to work for us.  I'll have to read the rest later, have to eat and work now.  CUNTS.

[jobotic]

They are as responsible for the thousands of excess deaths from Covid as Johnson and Cummings.

[thugler]

Why THE FUCK should I, I am not the leader of the opposition.

For the record, he should have said that Masking should be a legal requirement in all enclosed spaces.

How silly, you don't have to be the leader of the opposition to have a position on anything. You probably need to have one if you are making criticisms.

Fully agree on masks. However as the question was phrased 'are the tories right or are welsh labour right on masks?' he's not going to say don't wear masks and he's not going to say the tories are right and labour are wrong. Because that's an obvious own goal. So your effectively saying 'why isn't starmer standing up against welsh labour and for the tories mask policy?' He's already said that he supports the policy on masking.

[Paul Calf]

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/i-saw-inside-how-labour-staff-worked-prevent-labour-government/

More fucking angering depressing shit.

Just came here to post that. It's outright bullying and constructive dismissal. I couldn't get more than halfway through. Made me sick and angry.

Our government and opposition are in the hands of our enemies.

[king_tubby]

Only 8 months suspended for Eric Joyce? Fucking hell, big Kieth was piling on more than that for teenagers nicking a bottle of water in 2011.

[NoSleep]

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/i-saw-inside-how-labour-staff-worked-prevent-labour-government/

More fucking angering depressing shit.

I can't remember where I first read about some of the things mentioned but it was much closer to when it happened. I'm glad this stuff hasn't been forgotten but wonder how much effect it can have given that Stammer is now in charge. It seems all too late.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

The response from my 'Blairite' brother:

'Raking over old bones and we need to move on'

The whole moving on thing seems to have been the mantra.

I have tried and tried to get him to answer 'Why did Labour HQ sabotage the 2017 campaign?' but am yet to receive a direct answer. The goalposts get moved every time.

I suspect he knows. I don't get why he thinks anyone on the left should all 'come together and take the fight to the Tories' when thet wouldn't when we were in power.

[Sebastian Cobb]

People who act like that are tacitly approving of it because it aligns with the political outcomes they want.

You as an outsider might ask 'well how on earth can you trust people to act in your interests when they behave like that?'. I used to find this baffling until I realised it's not a problem for centrists, it doesn't matter because they are unaffected by the duplicity at every turn, the dishonesty simply doesn't matter because even when centrists aren't actively working in their interests they can be still relied upon to ensure liberals can see out the erosion of society from a comfy vantage point.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

It's also as my brother sees Labour as a big well meaning hulk and our only task really is to shift it into position no matter who is the leader and then miscellaneous good things will happen. He is not interested and doesn't pay attention to the internal workings. I really am not being condescending to him by saying this.

It will be interesting if he turns on Starmer if the polls stay as they are.

[Sebastian Cobb]

It's also as my brother sees Labour as a big well meaning hulk and our only task really is to shift it into position no matter who is the leader and then miscellaneous good things will happen. I really am not being condescending to him by saying this.

So basically Starmer is 'Master' and the rest of Labour is 'Blaster'?



Who runs Bartertown indeed.

[Buelligan]

I don't get why he thinks anyone on the left should all 'come together and take the fight to the Tories' when thet wouldn't when we were in power.

What fight though?  What fight is Labour taking to the Tories?  That's the problem.  We're in the middle of a pandemic, thousands have died needlessly, thousands more are going to lose their jobs, everything is going to shit and Labour, Starmer, are doing, saying, NOTHING.  Just working to pay off and cover up for the cunts that screwed over the Party and handed the country over to the Tories so they can do it again.  And we'll keep paying them, working for them, voting for them?  I don't think so.

[Famous Mortimer]

I don't get what he's supposed to do exactly? Is he supposed to support Welsh Labour and say masks don't need to be mandatory in shops? I'm pro masks and while the tories have brought in the rule way too late, I do support it. He's saying the situation is different in Wales from England, It's fair to say that things might be low enough there that they don't need the mask thing, I think it's such an easy thing to do I think it should be in place for a good while personally. 

What should he have said on this? I just don't see the point of complaining if he disagrees with welsh labour on anything, or agrees with anything the tories do just for the sake of it. Mandatory masks is a good thing, just brought in too late.

How about you tell us what you think rather than "just asking questions"?

[jobotic]

What fight though?  What fight is Labour taking to the Tories?  That's the problem.  We're in the middle of a pandemic, thousands have died needlessly, thousands more are going to lose their jobs, everything is going to shit and Labour, Starmer, are doing, saying, NOTHING.  Just working to pay off and cover up for the cunts that screwed over the Party and handed the country over to the Tories so they can do it again.  And we'll keep paying them, working for them, voting for them?  I don't think so.

Quite. They use the thousands of deaths, many of which are down to them, as a reason to steal public money by the hundreds of millions and give it to their mates and donors to perform essential tasks that they aren't up to doing and have no intention of doing.

What does Starmer say? Does he point out that it is the worst sort of grotesque profiteering from tragedy imaginable? That it is fraud? Theft? Corruption? Murder?

No, it's worrying and there perhaps ought to be an enquiry one day.

He provides protection from the left for fascists and kleptocrats. Disgusting man.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I agree with all of the above, of course.

This is how many people see it though. Blue team and red team.

Just got to get the red team to win by any means then = good things to happen? 🤨

I expect middle class people have the luxury of a spectactor type vantage point where the stakes and outcome don't specifically matter as much.

[thugler]

How about you tell us what you think rather than "just asking questions"?

I did. I am firmly in favour of masking. I don't think it was a good idea to either properly slag off Welsh Labour or say the tories have got it spot on. What he said was a reasonably successful fudge if you look at the question he was asked.

[BlodwynPig]

I did. I am firmly in favour of masking. I don't think it was a good idea to either properly slag off Welsh Labour or say the tories have got it spot on. What he said was a reasonably successful fudge if you look at the question he was asked.

Your words demean the very meaning of reasoned.

[Menu]

https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1291743472161103873

[BlodwynPig]

https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1291743472161103873

Meaningless. All of this is meaningless. Stop looking at percentage points and consider their actions and those of the party's they lead. Appalling from both.

[king_tubby]

Here we here we fucking go!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/07/jeremy-corbyn-accuses-labour-officials-of-sabotaging-election-campaign?

[Old Nehamkin]

Vroom vroom.