Over 40s to pay more tax.

[El Unicornio, mang]

My point is that self employed people are afforded certain advantages like that one but denied others that employees enjoy, paid holiday being the obvious one.

And having to pay double tax if you have any kind of US residency status even if you live elsewhere, as I had to.

Taxing rich people more seems like a better option, as crazy as that might sound to many. Not sure what relevance being over 40 has to anything.

[Non Stop Dancer]

And having to pay double tax if you have any kind of US residency status even if you live elsewhere, as I had to.

That's seems mental (and infuriating), but could you make a case for it actually being fair? Example, I had a couple mates who used to work off-shore and as such, my understanding is that they didn't pay any UK tax (they would go on holiday if necessary to make sure they were out of the country for just enough time to avoid having to pay UK tax), despite making use of all the benefits that you could expect as a UK citizen. Is the US law you refer to set up to avoid that kind of abuse?

[Paul Calf]

But employees still pay full tax and NI for that month of holiday, and most (certainly those in the public sector) also get paid slightly less in relative terms when that month is taken into account.


I'll also reiterate I said "SOME" - I know not every self employed person takes the piss.

And can we get paid sick pay and holiday and not pay National Insurance ant THREE TIMES THE RATE of employees please?

[El Unicornio, mang]

That's seems mental (and infuriating), but could you make a case for it actually being fair? Example, I had a couple mates who used to work off-shore and as such, my understanding is that they didn't pay any UK tax (they would go on holiday if necessary to make sure they were out of the country for just enough time to avoid having to pay UK tax), despite making use of all the benefits that you could expect as a UK citizen. Is the US law you refer to set up to avoid that kind of abuse?

In my case though, I had moved back to the UK and set up as self employed here so paying UK taxes like everyone else. But then because I was a US resident/green card holder I had to still file/pay US taxes every year, unless I renounced my residency, which I did, not because of the tax thing but because I had been out of the US for too long and wouldn't be allowed back in as a resident anyway. So basically they don't want you staying out of the country for a year or more but they're fine collecting taxes from you forever. For regular work the US tax is waived (unless it's a very large amount) but for self-employed you have to pay it regardless. And I don't make a lot of money so it's quite a chunk of change in total. There's only one other country which has this system (don't remember which).

Although they are still sending me stimulus cheques due to an error in their system (dead people are also getting them) so I guess it's evened out a bit...

[Shit Good Nose]

not pay National Insurance ant THREE TIMES THE RATE of employees please?

Three times!?!??!?!

You must be doing your fiddle wrong.  Lemme speak to Johnny Kneecaps...


Also, I think you'll find the thread for National Insurance Ant is thattaway (points to HS Art).

[Fambo Number Mive]

So a 40 year old working in a supermarket on minimum wage would need to pay more tax but a 28 year old earning £35,000 wouldn't? Seems unfair. Basically a tax on being middle-aged.

Anything to avoid taxing the rich for the Tories.

[JaDanketies]

Depressingly, if they kill the elderly through mismanagement of COVID, and disenfranchise the middle-aged by a universal tax hike on over 40s, and therefore destroy the Tory voting base, the best we can hope for is Keir Starmer.

Of course, 40 isn't middle aged, I have now decided. It's still young, cool and hip. Just don't stand up too fast.

[Shit Good Nose]

So a 40 year old working in a supermarket on minimum wage would need to pay more tax but a 28 year old earning £35,000 wouldn't? Seems unfair. Basically a tax on being middle-aged.

Anything to avoid taxing the rich for the Tories.

Yep (although someone on minimum wage isn't going to be paying income tax of course).

Like I said, whether we like it or not EVERYONE really needs to start paying more tax someway somehow.  Agree that a sliding scale relevant to earnings would be the most (only?) fair way of doing it, but the tories won't do that obvs.

[JaDanketies]

This dude here in 2019 said that the tax evasion / avoidance etc in the UK last year was £90 billion.

That's the majority of the NHS's running costs, which were £134 billion in 2019.

This document here says "the world's High Net Worth Individuals (HNWIs) held around $11.5 trillion of assets offshore (in tax havens), which would generate a return of about $860 billion a year at a 7.5% rate of return, and a consequent tax loss of about $250 billion as a result of it being held offshore."

This page here lists the world's biggest tax havens. Four out of the top 5 are British territories: The Virgin Islands, the Caymans, Bermuda and Jersey. Number one - the Virgin Islands - 45% of the world's offshore companies were formed there.

So I think we can do better than a tax hike on all over 40s.

[Non Stop Dancer]

Come on now, they must've worked bloody hard for that, no wonder they want to keep it hidden if the rest of us scroungers want it so we can waste it on "care".

[Captain Z]

Thank God that commie Corbyn didn't get in and raise taxes though.

[Gurke and Hare]

My point is that self employed people are afforded certain advantages like that one but denied others that employees enjoy, paid holiday being the obvious one.

But paid holiday is meaningless in the context of being self employed. Paid holiday for employees isn't a gift from the government, it's between the employer and the employee. There's nothing to stop a self-employed person - and I would have thought it would be the norm - continuing to pay themself their salary from their business when they're on holiday.

[JaDanketies]

But paid holiday is meaningless in the context of being self employed. Paid holiday for employees isn't a gift from the government, it's between the employer and the employee. There's nothing to stop a self-employed person - and I would have thought it would be the norm - continuing to pay themself their salary from their business when they're on holiday.

I've been self-employed on and off for a long time, and when I don't work, I don't earn money.

There are a lot of self-employed people out there who are actually the director of a company, but most of them are more like a window cleaner. When they ain't cleaning windows, nobody's paying them. You earn what you can when you can and hopefully charge enough to take the occasional break and go on holiday.

We self-employed miss out on a lot of the protections employees get. In fact, once I was self-employed while still effectively being an employee, with people who acted like they were my boss, going to the same office as a bunch of people on payroll. Once they gave everyone a Christmas hamper except for me.

[Sebastian Cobb]

We self-employed miss out on a lot of the protections employees get. In fact, once I was self-employed while still effectively being an employee, with people who acted like they were my boss, going to the same office as a bunch of people on payroll. Once they gave everyone a Christmas hamper except for me.

Worth it for being able to excuse yourself from corporate indoctrination sessions and HR bollocks like 'personal development plans'.

[Non Stop Dancer]

But paid holiday is meaningless in the context of being self employed. Paid holiday for employees isn't a gift from the government, it's between the employer and the employee. There's nothing to stop a self-employed person - and I would have thought it would be the norm - continuing to pay themself their salary from their business when they're on holiday.

You might want to think that one through a bit more mate.

[imitationleather]

But paid holiday is meaningless in the context of being self employed. Paid holiday for employees isn't a gift from the government, it's between the employer and the employee. There's nothing to stop a self-employed person - and I would have thought it would be the norm - continuing to pay themself their salary from their business when they're on holiday.

I don't think many Deliveroo riders are giving themselves a month's paid leave every year.

Being self-employed maybe doesn't mean what you think it does.

[JamesTC]

I spent 15 months in a kind of rolling contract self-employed thing a few years ago. When you saw it broken down on the payslip, you were "paid" holiday leave as you went along. So if I wanted to take an actual day off, I just wouldn't get paid for that day. In the time I was there I only took two or three days off holiday outside of bank holidays.

[Endicott]

The point surely is that Deliveroo riders shouldn't be self employed. It's an exploitative employment model by design.