Songs that make you kill.

[Godzilla Bankrolls]

Didn't Martin say that the new album was going to be totally different (to their other stuff) when they started recording it, what, 18 months ago?

[Peking O]

Why don't Coldplay make an album as varied and weird and colourful as, say, The Beatles' white album?

I think we've reached a point where something like the white album would probably be rejected by a major label. There are a few bands out there who are seemingly able to goad their major label into releasing almost anything (the Flaming Lips spring to mind), but these are few and far between. There's too much money riding on the new Coldplay album for it to be a risky venture. Not that they'd be capable of producing anything other than blandorama, but if they suddenly did, the record label would either refuse to release it, or insist all the creativity was squeezed dry so it could appease the ears of Bland FM listeners.

[Godzilla Bankrolls]

Don't Coldplay have the power, in theory, to pull a Cocksucker Blues on EMI? I.e., the company need *them* to survive, not the other way round? So, if Martin and co had the scope and vision, they could probably record whatever they wanted and tell EMI to take it or leave it.

[Peking O]

It's hard to tell without looking at the minutiae of their contract. I know, for example, the Dandy Warhols were forced into re-recording one of their albums when the label deemed it too 'dark' for public consumption. If only Channel 4 had taken the same approach to Green Wing.

[Saturday Boy]

Well, the Lips selling point was always their strangeness I felt, Zaireeka got mentioned in every Soft Bulletin review I remember reading at the time, so I can't see them getting too stifled by the company.


I'd argue that Kid A, whether you liked it or not (I liked it) was a ballsy move which has only been seen to be a "safe" one in retrospect.


Be Here Now was hardly weird or wonderful, but I don't think a smaller band could've gotten away with it's excesses. (Perhaps it's finest moment was a seven minute leadoff single and opener). Oasis don't want to do anything different, from interviews. They tried it a little with SOTSOG and it was horrible. They tried again with DiV on the decks and it fell apart. I don't think they're capable of it.


Travis's last one was a bit different wasn't it? I downloaded it and it was rubbish (apart from the domestic violence track, which was a ripoff of Bowie's Repetiiton at least lyrically), but it was a brave-ish move that didn't pay off commercially at all.


I think Spiritualized do what they (well, he) wants when they put albums out these days, be it for better (Amazing Grace) or worse (bits of Let It Come Down).


David Bowie literally can do whatever he likes I think, which was thrilling in the 90s when he made some of his most interesting music. It's a shame that he's decided without pressure to make some of the most dull Bowie-by-numbers "will this do" music of his career from "... Hours" on.


Marilyn Manson tried to expand his ouvre a bit, but the hardcore fans hated it and he ended up doing rubbish covers of great songs.


Blur tried it too. They got rubbish (sorry Frinky, but they did).

[Derek Trucks]

David Bowie literally can do whatever he likes I think, which was thrilling in the 90s when he made some of his most interesting music. It's a shame that he's decided without pressure to make some of the most dull Bowie-by-numbers "will this do" music of his career from "... Hours" on.

Sometimes experimentation works and sometimes it dosen't.  Heathen & Reality may not be as experimental and adventurous as,say, Earthling and Outside, but there's no doubt in my mind (and for quite a few Bowie fans) that they're better albums.

[Peking O]

stuff

It's interesting that all the bands/artists you mention there have pretty strong personalities within them. If you watch The Fearless Freaks (Flaming Lips documentary), they reveal that Warners basically released Zaireeka because Wayne charmed them into it. I someohow can't imagine Coldplay pulling it off can you?

Chris: "We've got a radical new direction we want to persue"

Label: "There's a lot of money riding on you Chris. A lot of people whose jobs depend on you bringing in a wad of cash. Now get back to the studio and pound out another ten versions of 'Yellow.' And I tell you what, as we're reasonable people, we'll throw a Gwyneth Paltrow into the deal."

[Godzilla Bankrolls]

Chris (if he had any vision and/or balls): Fuck you, here's our quadruple album about the history of the Nile. I learnt how to play the bloody harp for this, you bastards.

[Saturday Boy]

stuff

It's interesting that all the bands/artists you mention there have pretty strong personalities within them.

Very good point. I think it's more about the characters and personalities in the bands concerned, rather than the genre they happen to inhabit.

Even though Oasis aren't capable of making out-there tunes, they certainly do whatever they do on their own terms, because Liam and Noel and aren't pushovers. I agree that Martin just doesn't seem to have a strong enough personality to be like that, despite all the muffled bluster.

[Peking O]

There's an entertaining look at some of this stuff in this article by Steve Albini:

http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

[Hoogstraten'sSmilingUlcer]

Garfield And Friends wrote:

#"Let's eat to the beat!#

"Fast Food Song" by the Fast Food Rockers

How big was the sack of cash they got for that turd of cheap advertising?

That song with the chorus 'Because I got high' was fucking shit shit shit. Anything by 50 'look how big my trousers are' Cent, which is probably the intention. I haven't heard his debut album, but The Massacre is utter torture; if you value your ears and brain, don't listen to it.

[Saturday Boy]

Incidentlally, the rubbish Crazy Frog thing is outselling the rubbish Coldplay thing 4:1, and will be this week's #1 single.

[Saturday Boy]

Sometimes experimentation works and sometimes it dosen't.  Heathen & Reality may not be as experimental and adventurous as,say, Earthling and Outside, but there's no doubt in my mind (and for quite a few Bowie fans) that they're better albums.

Not for this Bowie fan :-)

There's fantastic stuff on those two LPs (Sunday, Heathen, Bring Me The DIsco King, New Killer Star... *thinks*... those are the two openers and closers, coincidentally), but most of it is very very nice, but awfullly dull.


Give me We Prick You and Outside and I'm Derranged over all of that. And Little Wonder and Battle Of Britain too, for that matter.

[chand]

Why don't Coldplay make an album as varied and weird and colourful as, say, The Beatles' white album?

Well they don't take as many drugs as The Beatles. But I really get the impression that Coldplay ARE making the music they want to make. They're not gonna be fucking around with weird boxes on stage like Radiohead and doing everything in odd time signatures. There's nothing to stop them doing what they want at this stage, so you have to assume they already are doing. I get the impression from Chris Martin's endless live covers of popular contemporary songs that he's in thrall to some kind of notion of writing what he considers to be a perfect pop song. Which would probably sound quite a lot like U2. But I mean, as far as I can see, he's gonna carry on writing the kind of stuff he's writing until...well, at least until they've got enough shit for a massive Greatest Hits album. I suspect he probably thinks he's got one or two really amazing songs in him which he's working towards, and maybe then he'll go avant-garde.

I don't really care for Coldplay, but I don't have a great deal of animosity for them. I remember quite liking 'Shiver', and they were just making stuff back then like a load of other indie bands, and then for whatever reason 'Yellow' caught on. That first album had already been made then, so this is really only their second record they've made as a famous band. Maybe in ten years they might be doing something radically different, but I wouldn't expect them to abandon their style just yet.

[The Mumbler]

I think we've reached a point where something like the white album would probably be rejected by a major label.

I'm no fan of theirs, but surely Radiohead presented EMI with a difficult follow-up to a huge worldwide seller, and remain on the label to this day?  Indeed, Kid A sold very well, as did its follow-up in turn.

[Peking O]

To my ears, Kid A doesn't sound that radical. The radical ante has been upped considerably since the white album. I can't believe Kid A provoked anywhere near as strong a reaction as The Beatles did back in the day. If anything, Kid A seemed like a natural progression. I suppose it all depends on your definition of 'difficult'.

[The Mumbler]

Incidentlally, the rubbish Crazy Frog thing is outselling the rubbish Coldplay thing 4:1, and will be this week's #1 single.

I feel somehow responsible* for this state of affairs, given that just over 20 years ago, and six months before it belatedly became a huge hit, I bought the 12" of Axel F by Harold Faltermeyer for 99p in a bargain bin.

*only partly, though.

[The Mumbler]

To my ears, Kid A doesn't sound that radical.

Maybe not, but it was markedly *different* to what they'd done before.

[chand]

To my ears, Kid A doesn't sound that radical. The radical ante has been upped considerably since the white album. I can't believe Kid A provoked anywhere near as strong a reaction as The Beatles did back in the day. If anything, Kid A seemed like a natural progression. I suppose it all depends on your definition of 'difficult'.

Never underestimate how alienated rock fans can be without guitars on every track. Kid A is a great album but it's not that dissimilar to, say, the beats Björk is using. Never understood why people think it's some kind of tuneless, robotic, alienating music; I've always found it quite a warm and accessible record.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

I get the impression from Chris Martin's endless live covers of popular contemporary songs that he's in thrall to some kind of notion of writing what he considers to be a perfect pop song. Which would probably sound quite a lot like U2.

If that's true, he irritates me even more...because Coldplay songs *aren't* perfect pop. Elvis Costello's Oliver's Army is perfect pop - when he writes something as good as that, I'll accept that he's great.

It's that Robbie Williams idea of a 'good tune' - ie, a weak tune which, if heard often enough on Generic FM, starts to sound vaguely like it might have a tune in there somewhere. That isn't pop.

[Saturday Boy]

If that's true, he irritates me even more...because Coldplay songs *aren't* perfect pop. Elvis Costello's Oliver's Army is perfect pop - when he writes something as good as that, I'll accept that he's great.

No it's not! The Shangri-La's Leader Of The Pack is perfect pop, when Elvis Costello writes anything half as good as that, I'll accept that he's great.


Jeez, I hate Coldplay myself, but every ELW10-modernity post has the effect of a crazy frog ringtone on my cortex.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

What do you reckon was the last Perfect Pop Single?

[Squirrel]

Love Child by supremes

[sam and janet evening]

I know it got played to death but 'Hey Ya' was pretty fantastic. And 'Fell in love with a Girl' by the White Stripes.
Also that '1 thing' by Amerie thats out now, I really like that.
Shall we have a 'pure pop for now people' thread? There probably is one isn't there?

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Surely Oliver's Army is a pretty good example, though. Exhilarating, catchy, angry, economical, goosepimple-provoking...everything a 4-minute single should be.

[Saturday Boy]

What do you reckon was the last Perfect Pop Single?

The last few that immidiately pop to mind

Girls Aloud - Sound of the Underground
Kylie Minogue - Can't Get You Out Of My Head
The Coral - Dreaming of You
Britney Spears - Hit Me Baby One More Time

The next one will be Special Needs - Blue Skies. Honest.


EDIT: oooh yes, Outkast.

[Saturday Boy]

The next one will be Special Needs - Blue Skies. Honest.

here

I'm curious what your honest opinion is of that ELW10. I'm guessing you probably won't like it, but I'm curious why that is. For me it's a Perfect Pop Single y'see.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Girls Aloud - Sound of the Underground
Kylie Minogue - Can't Get You Out Of My Head
The Coral - Dreaming of You
Britney Spears - Hit Me Baby One More Time

The next one will be Special Needs - Blue Skies. Honest.

I'd agree with the last one. Plus all the Spice Girls singles up to and including Stop. Nothing by 90s/00s boybands though - too dull.

I've never understood why people reckon Can't Get You Out Of my Head is great but I Should Be So Lucky isn't - to me, they're cut from the same cloth. Can anyone explain?

[Saturday Boy]

I'd agree with the last one. Plus all the Spice Girls singles up to and including Stop.

Seriously?!?!

I'd give you Wannabe without a second thought, and maybe Spice Up Your Life at a push (one hell of a push). But all the rest left me utterly utterly cold.

*Checks*


# Wannabe 1996  Brilliant
# Say You'll Be There 1996 Horrible wilfully "genre-hopping" tack
# 2 Become 1 1996 Boring... is this song about contraception?
# Mama / Who Do You Think You Are 1997 A-Side = Dull B-side see Say You'll Be There
# Spice Up Your Life 1997 Passable, not as good a comeback single as say Sure by Take That though
# Too Much 1997 Dull Dull Dull
# Stop 1998 Even. More. Dull.


# Viva Forever 1998
# Goodbye 1998
# Holler / Let Love Leed the Way 2000


Well, thank god even you recognise those last three for the meandering ballady shit that they are.

Modern Pop Groups seem to be rubbish at ballads, at least the Spice Girls, Britney and Girls Aloud certainly are.

Last great Pop Ballad that I can think of is probably Pray or Babe, and you're going back to the mid-90s there.

[Saturday Boy]

I've never understood why people reckon Can't Get You Out Of my Head is great but I Should Be So Lucky isn't - to me, they're cut from the same cloth. Can anyone explain?

Well, the fact that they sound totally different, are by different songwriters, and have a totally different vibe is one thing, surely? I love the former (I love pretty much all of Fever), but I Should Be So Lucky hurts my head. Maybe it's the pitch of her voice, or the melody line, but whilst Can't Get You Out... is smooooothe and jivy, ISBSL just sounds like a hyperactive child squealing to my ears.


Imagine dancing to both singles, you'd dance in a very very different way, hence, different cloth.