Songs that make you kill.

[Jemble Fred]

Seriously?!?! I'd give you Wannabe without a second thought, and maybe Spice Up Your Life at a push (one hell of a push). But all the rest left me utterly utterly cold.

Wow, it's almost as if you two are different people, with different opinions. How does that work?!?!

[Saturday Boy]

Wow, it's almost as if you two are different people, with different opinions. How does that work?!?!

Well, quite. Me expecting someone else to share my taste in Spice is as silly as them expecting me to accept their definition of what is and isn't a Perfect Pop Single. Just healthy debate innit.

[Jemble Fred]

Just healthy debate innit.

Yeah, course. Just that the dumbfounded reactions to other's opinions seemed a bit silly.

As it goes, I have to agree with Lalla on the Spice Girls' first two albums. Well, the singles from them, anyway.

[Rubella]

I know it got played to death but 'Hey Ya' was pretty fantastic. And 'Fell in love with a Girl' by the White Stripes.
Also that '1 thing' by Amerie thats out now, I really like that.
Shall we have a 'pure pop for now people' thread? There probably is one isn't there?

'1 Thing' by Amerie is fantastic - I can't stop listening to it.  I hope the rest of her material is as good as this.

[Saturday Boy]

Just healthy debate innit.

Yeah, course. Just that the dumbfounded reactions to other's opinions seemed a bit silly.

You should take a look at CC now and again :-)


I remember hating the Spice Girls, because I was "supposed to" at that age, but it was only when I went back to them that I thought they were terribly overrated toss, the first single aside.

Take That on the other hand, have a good half-dozen songs that put anything a boyband has done in their wake to shame. (Pray, Never Forget, Babe, Sure, Relight My Fire, Everything Changes... but not Back For fucking Good. Why on Earth do people pick out that dreary peice of shit as Take That's finest moment. It's not... it's pants. Just because it has less of a tune than their other stuff, and less balls too, it doesn't make it "acceptable" to like it dammit!)

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Well, the fact that they sound totally different, are by different songwriters, and have a totally different vibe is one thing, surely? I love the former (I love pretty much all of Fever), but I Should Be So Lucky hurts my head. Maybe it's the pitch of her voice, or the melody line, but whilst Can't Get You Out... is smooooothe and jivy, ISBSL just sounds like a hyperactive child squealing to my ears.

Imagine dancing to both singles, you'd dance in a very very different way, hence, different cloth.

I just think CGYOOMH is as good/bad as ISBSL, but the former sounds a bit cool and knowing and doesn't have the 'so dated and 80s' tag. I think Head's the weaker tune though.

[Saturday Boy]

I just think CGYOOMH is as good/bad as ISBSL, but the former sounds a bit cool and knowing and doesn't have the 'so dated and 80s' tag. I think Head's the weaker tune though.

So you're saying they are from a different cloth. But you like them the same amount, and think that ISBSL is only mocked for its age, despite me not using the word "dated" once in the post describing their differences, but instead focussing on the actual, concrete differences between the songs?

[sam and janet evening]

Actually I do think that 'ISBSL' sounds dated. I also think it sounds rubbish.I think there are times when the 'Dated and 80's' tag (or dated and anything) does apply and does work to the detriment of something's appeal. This is one. It's a horribly produced record, it sounds awfully tinny and plastic. The way it's produced just sounds jarring outside of it's context, and the song itself is too weak to carry this. It's quite possible that in 10 years 'CGYOOMH' will sound equally dated and jarring and I doubt that it's tune will be sufficient to mask the fact, however at the moment it doesn't need to. I know that 'dated' is a term used in a very cruel way far too often, but I do think it's justified here.

[Saturday Boy]

The next one will be Special Needs - Blue Skies. Honest.

here

I'm curious what your honest opinion is of that ELW10. I'm guessing you probably won't like it, but I'm curious why that is. For me it's a Perfect Pop Single y'see.

ELW10?

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

No, I just think people are more willing to admit they like Head and hate Lucky because it's been sanctioned as the inverted snob's favourite, the one you're allowed to like.

But yes, you came up with actual reasons, so I don't count you as 'people'.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

ELW10?

At work. No soundcard.

[Saturday Boy]

Ah, no worries. I'm not in the band or anything! I just like them an awful lot.

[alan strang]

Adam Ant meets Tenpole Tudor at The Proclaimers' house.

Edit: oh - the DJ just made the latter comparison too.

[Coughlan]

Love Shack by the B52's. Why do people love that song?!!!!

[Jemble Fred]

Love Shack by the B52's. Why do people love that song?!!!!

Because people are fucking wankers. God I hate Love Shack.

[Catalogue Trousers]

rjd2 wrote:

The majority of RnB is terrible repetitive sassy rubbish aimed at silly little schoolgirls

Plus, of course, it isn't R & B. R & B is Brook Benton, Little Milton, Ray Charles and a whole load of other exciting, lively musicians. Not fucking Craig David whining about how many women he's supposedly shagged and treating his voice with an awful bee-in-a-biscuit-tin effect over a wimpish dirge of a backing. Or Akon and the fucking Smurfs, come to that.

[Ciarán2]

I remember hating the Spice Girls, because I was "supposed to" at that age...

I've thought about this and think I can say that I have never slipped into that kind of silly attitude. No actually, hang on, I have. I mean, I do. I have a rather dogmatic skepticism towards "the bands we're supposed to like". I think that's a kind of duty though.

But if I've been influenced by peer-pressure with regard to my musical taste, I like to think it's been in a positive way. You're supposed to love The White Stripes and The Clash and The Rolling Stones. And if you actually do, that's great. But you're not allowed to (genuinely and non-ironically) love Bon Jovi as well. There's something wrong there.

(Not directed at anyone in particular): "Kid A" is a brave record? I'd like to hear something like that backed up thank-you-very-much. Is it more of a departure than the Village People's 1981 new-romantic album was from their previous disco ones? If so, in what way? And if not, why aren't you talking up the Village People's trail-blazing genre hopping?

Actually, while I'm off the topic, I found the article in this months's Word Magazine on underrated albums interesting. Where engagement with lists of the All Time Top 100 Albums or whatever seem like efforts to identify oneself with a supposed popular consciousness, this seems to be an excercise in genuine enthusiasm for the records therein. There's no preoccupation in a list like this about "what's missing" which tends to stifle those Greatest Album debates. I recognise for the first time, the merit in that canonisation of "Great Albums" - without it a list like this couldn't exist.  We (or I at least), need that mammoth villain of What Everybody Has To Like in order to make sense of my position in society with respect to popular culture and to identify and define the music which I like. I can't be aware of my liking for Mud without awareness of their distance from the critical oeuvre. To some extent I need for "Revolver" to constantly be declared The Greatest Album Ever Made in order to make sense of "The White Album". Does that make any sense?

[rjd2]

rjd2 wrote:

The majority of RnB is terrible repetitive sassy rubbish aimed at silly little schoolgirls

Plus, of course, it isn't R & B. R & B is Brook Benton, Little Milton, Ray Charles and a whole load of other exciting, lively musicians. Not fucking Craig David whining about how many women he's supposedly shagged and treating his voice with an awful bee-in-a-biscuit-tin effect over a wimpish dirge of a backing. Or Akon and the fucking Smurfs, come to that.

That's true enough but apart from the occasional bit of brilliance from the likes of Lauyrn Hill the whole genre has being utterly fucking terrible and it irritates the hell out of me when people consume all this repetitive soulless rubbish in its millions.
A cynical person once told me that while black culture has being so influential in the creation of music that this is their attempt to exploit consumers the same way white stars such as Elvis raped black music for their own financial gain. A bit hysterical but theirs a hint of common sense in there.
Also
Gwen Stefani hollaback girl, terrible lyrics, wretched sub par Neptune's beat with the most retarded hook near the end where she calls the song bananas over and over. I'm fed up wither thinking she's wacky or creative by having Japanese's dancers around her who do anything.
She is the antichrist of music style over substance.

[Ciarán2]

The majority of RnB is terrible repetitive sassy rubbish aimed at silly little schoolgirls

Plus, of course, it isn't R & B. R & B is Brook Benton, Little Milton, Ray Charles and a whole load of other exciting, lively musicians. Not fucking Craig David whining about how many women he's supposedly shagged...

I've always found it odd that people's animosity towards this music is rooted in nomenclature. It is R'n'B, it's a different meaning of the term to when it's applied to Brook Benton, admittedly, but we don't go around complaining about this quirk of language in all other manifestations of it, do we?

[Catalogue Trousers]

Coughlan wrote:

Love Shack by the B52's. Why do people love that song?!!!!

Because it's joyous, fun, bubblegum pop perhaps?

For the record, I rate "Love Shack" as possibly their worst track. Just about any other track even on "Cosmic Thing" itself (let alone their earlier work) kicks the righteous shit out of "Love Shack"  (it's a minor tragedy of pop that such a genuine, gleaming gem as "Roam" languishes comparatively forgotten while "Shack" still shows up every fucking where - and maybe that's the real problem with "Shack", the sheer bloody saturation point that it attained)!

Oh, and for the record, I can't stand "Can't Get You Out Of My Head". Bores the spit out of me.

[Jemble Fred]

Because it's joyous, fun, bubblegum pop perhaps?
.

Yup, just like 'It's Raining Men', 'YMCA' and 'Mr Blobby'. Except more irritating because it's got that weird bloke's voice on it.

[Catalogue Trousers]

Hey! Don't knock "It's Raining Men". The original, anyway, not that Haliwell crap. Any tune that's Homer Simpson's favourite can't  be all bad...

But "YMCA" is shite. "Macho Man" and "In The Navy" are much better numbers.

"Mr Blobby"? Crap, yes, but then so's a lot of non-bubblegum pop. "(Piss) Yellow" by Coldplay makes me ready to kill. Whining dreary toss.

[The Mumbler]

Oh lay off Love Shack - Jesus, it may have been on every crap party album ever released, but having never heard it at any Radio 1 Roadshow, wedding or office party, I still think it's quite good.  Not as good as Roam, no.  And in turn, Roam's nothing like as good as Planet Claire or Rock Lobster or 52 Girls, no.  But quite frankly, I was just delighted that they got a massive hit at long last.  Without it being Meet The Flintstones.  I think, ultimately, I just like Don Was's production - particularly the breakdown bit on the album version.  Yes, the album version, all five minutes twenty seconds of it.  Some nice horn work on it too.  Sorry, I find it absolutely impossible to hate.  Rotten fruit this way.  I don't care.

Kylie: Don't particularly like either I Should be So Lucky or Can't Get You Out Of My head (the latter is my only problem with Paul Morley's Words & Music book -it's the sum of many parts, undeniably, but it's a lesser sum than Donna Summer, New Order or Kraftwerk).  But I do like Better The Devil You Know and Step Back In Time a lot - and yes, the latter's terribly post-modern, but it was the sort of record that was unforgettable for all the right reasons (mostly a tune you'd kill for).  And Confide In Me's pretty good.  But yeah, I'm deeply suspicious of the 21st century Kylie embodying "perfect pop" - very few people who say this were exactly extolling the PWL virtue in 1989.

Spice Girls: Who Do You Think You Are? is cracking, and is the second best song ever written with that title.*   A very distant cousin of The Reynolds Girls' I'd Rather Jack, it's the only track I own by The Spices.  Although I'd have definitely bought Say You'll Be There, had I been in Britain when it was number one.  Don't particularly like their other stuff, though.

*The best song with that title, of course, is the Candlewick Green hit of 1974, covered by Saint Etienne, which has about as many hooks as there can possibly be in three minutes - each catchy bit is followed by an even catchier bit.  Happy-sad in exactly equal measures, like all great pop.

[Saturday Boy]

Adam Ant meets Tenpole Tudor at The Proclaimers' house.

Edit: oh - the DJ just made the latter comparison too.

Yes, but do you like it?

[Saturday Boy]

I remember hating the Spice Girls, because I was "supposed to" at that age...

I've thought about this and think I can say that I have never slipped into that kind of silly attitude

C'mon... this was when I was 14. When you're a midget 14-year-old with bad skin whose voice hasn't broken yet, it's not really at the forefront of your mind to admit to all the big kids at school that actually, Take That are pretty nifty. Actually, I remember admitting that... it wasn't very comfortable, probably why I didn't even bother engaging my critical faculties for the Spice Girls and went with the wave of opinion.


As it is, I didn't lose out anyway in this example, because I know now that I honestly think they're a load of toss.

[sam and janet evening]

Mr Mumbler wrote

I'm deeply suspicious of the 21st century Kylie embodying "perfect pop" - very few people who say this were exactly extolling the PWL virtue in 1989.

I'm really not sure about this. I often agree with the theories that are posted on here regarding the media's distortion of the past, and how certain things have been unfairly derided or airbrushed out of history, but I genuinely think that 'CGYOOMH' is a better record than the PWL stuff. I'm all for well-constructed production line pop but the PWL stuff just sounds rotten to me. I also think that 'ISBSL' has aquired a sort of ironic/nostalgic following that it doesn't deserve. I guess it's just a matter of taste really but I really hate those records.
however I think there is an 'anti-Bruce Springsteen' conspiracy and I think it can be traced back to the government...We're through the looking glass here people...

[The Mumbler]

To be absolutely fair to myself, incidentally, I've never really rated I Should Be So Lucky, and thought her only reasonable record prior to Better The Devil was Hand On Your Heart.  Although I somehow managed to avoid all the Stock Aitken Waterman opprobrium of the late 80s - I just thought of most of their stuff, "Well, it's clearly not aimed at me"* and bought other things.  There were more than enough alternatives, even if you just restricted your ears to the top 40.

*Although Jason Donovan: clearly an unbelievably poor singer.

There's no sinister motive with me and Can't Get You Out Of My Head.  My head says I should like it - its pop/electronic hybrid should appeal to my psyche.  My heart, however, just finds it merely functional, and feels that Pet Shop Boys would have done something far better with it.  Or maybe it's just that Neil Tennant would have written wittier lyrics than Cathy Dennis.  I don't know.

[Saturday Boy]

CGYOOMH isn't my favourite Kylie song incidentally.

1 - Confide In Me
2 - Where The Wild Roses Grow
3 - Slow
4 - Fever
5 - Can't Get You Out Of My Head.

For the record, like.

[The Mumbler]

Oh yes, and while I don't want anyone to think I'm being obscure for the sake of it, I always rather liked Put Yourself In My Place (1994, and something of a flop for the Kyles, with it only getting to number 11).  As a singles buyer for HMV at the time, I had the overstocks to show for my enthusiasm.

[Coughlan]

Kylies worst era was when she went all "indie rock", anyone recall that?