Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 28, 2024, 09:23:58 PM

Login with username, password and session length

New Television & Speakers Help!

Started by Puce Moment, July 28, 2020, 05:49:23 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Puce Moment

As it does seem that we are unlikely to be able to get to the cinema in an intelligent and safe way, I would like to upgrade my Samsung 44" Smart TV (2013) to something larger and more suitable to my needs. Any help on this would be great!

Firstly, I am looking at John Lewis as I tend to get financing from them, I have a good record with that, and it all goes very smoothly. The cost also doesn't just disappear into my credit card, and I know I will get it paid off in 12 months.

What do I need? Well other than good visual quality I would like something 55" I reckon, given the size of my front room. At the moment I have the apps on the TV, apps available through my BT Box and apps available on my Roku. It's a bit of a mess so I would like to consolidate it. I really only use Youtube, Spotify, Amazon Prime, Gooogle, AppleTV and the like. I would like to have a TV with a VLC media player on it, if possible, and the ability to use a VPN to open up the international MUBI content.

Looking at the TVs on John Lewis in my size range, it's hard to work out the difference between a 55" Toshiba for £429 and a 55" Panasonic for £3,299. Is there anything I should be looking for specifically? Is there some bollocks I should be avoiding? I'm looking at the possibility of getting a PS5 in future if that makes any difference, but my main thing is film watching and using apps.

https://www.johnlewis.com/browse/electricals/televisions/view-all-tvs/size=55-to-60/_/N-6srfZ1z0ojbg?sortBy=priceLow

I'm also looking at getting some surround sound speakers, if anyone has any tips or advice. I might look to see if they have TV/Speakers offers that make sense for me, such as this:

https://www.johnlewis.com/sony-bravia-kd55x7053-2020-led-hdr-4k-ultra-hd-smart-tv-55-inch-with-freeview-play-black/p4929604

Any help, as always, greatly received!

Dex Sawash

Hate Sony remote controls. So fucked up with too many buttons and menus are bad. Be sure to go drive one, they may be ok now.

Puce Moment

Ugh, I was planning on not leaving the house or going to a shop to be honest. I do remember hearing that about Sonys. It's just that my Samsung Smart TV has been pretty shit since I got it and I would like to try a different brand. I have even given the Roku TV some thought.

Sebastian Cobb

I've heard (but not seen personally) very good things about HiSense, they do yer 4k, HDR and have inbuilt Roku. Seem very cheap on Argos, who deliver.

I agree Sony's have a clunky UI, my parents have one. Obviously because of trinitron they knocked the socks off of everyone else in the CRT days but they don't have that edge now.

MojoJojo

Quote from: Puce Moment on July 29, 2020, 01:29:47 PM
Ugh, I was planning on not leaving the house or going to a shop to be honest. I do remember hearing that about Sonys. It's just that my Samsung Smart TV has been pretty shit since I got it and I would like to try a different brand. I have even given the Roku TV some thought.

Is there any reason you can't just use the Roku for all your TV needs? My LG tv's smart TV stuff is pretty decent, but I got a Roku on the basis that it will have better software support. It runs netflix, plex, youtube etc... without problem. You might want to go for the higher end Roku if you're getting a HDR telly.

I'll think you'll struggle to get something that runs VLC. I do the separate PC running a plex server thing and found that works well. I've not had any codec/format issues in a long while.

55inches is where LG start doing OLED, at just over £1000* - although John Lewis have sold out of that at the moment. I have that and I'm very happy with the picture quality.


You've got your 4k, which I think all the John Lewis ones will be now. HDR is new thing now, and unfortunately it's a bit of a mess, with a couple of different standards. And some stuff being HDR8 instead of "proper" HDR10. Maybe it's settled down a bit now, it was about a year ago I looked.

(*sorry if this seems outrageous, you haven't mentioned a buidget so it's hard to know.)

Puce Moment

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on July 29, 2020, 02:34:01 PMI've heard (but not seen personally) very good things about HiSense, they do yer 4k, HDR and have inbuilt Roku. Seem very cheap on Argos, who deliver.

Thanks - the prices on Argos and John Lewis seem to be the same (as is often the case) so I am giving their £599 and £799 TVs a look.

Quote from: MojoJojo on July 29, 2020, 05:14:39 PMIs there any reason you can't just use the Roku for all your TV needs? My LG tv's smart TV stuff is pretty decent, but I got a Roku on the basis that it will have better software support. It runs netflix, plex, youtube etc... without problem. You might want to go for the higher end Roku if you're getting a HDR telly.

OK, it's a good question. I think I wanted to consolidate all of the app activity onto my TV. But I'm starting to think, helped by your post, that I am better off getting just a very good TV and then using the Roku. I have to say that it has become the main portal that we use, and I only ever use my BT box to record shows on non-BBC channels. I never use the apps on my Smart TV because they are so shit and clunky. Going for an even better Roku could be a good solution.

That does make my TV searching a little more complicated, although in reviews I see that one criticism of the Hisense TVs are that they exclude many standard apps. That might not matter to me.

QuoteI'll think you'll struggle to get something that runs VLC. I do the separate PC running a plex server thing and found that works well. I've not had any codec/format issues in a long while.

I'm onto the Plex thing now - steep learning curve but I think I might be getting there. It would be great to cast my PC to my TV via Plex as at the moment I am transferring to a 2TB external drive that I have to bring back and forth between rooms. The desire to run VLC is purely because my Samsung does not recognise about a third of the files I try to play. And it isn't always MKV files either.

Quote55inches is where LG start doing OLED, at just over £1000* - although John Lewis have sold out of that at the moment. I have that and I'm very happy with the picture quality.

Because I am looking at speakers I had limited myself to about £800 but of course I would go higher for the right model. I haven't taken any time to look at the LGs so I will do that now.

THANKS!

olliebean

Quote from: Puce Moment on July 29, 2020, 06:03:50 PMThat does make my TV searching a little more complicated, although in reviews I see that one criticism of the Hisense TVs are that they exclude many standard apps. That might not matter to me.

Can you not just install any app from the Roku catalogue on them, like with a standalone Roku? I think I'd have good cause for complaint if I bought one on the basis of it having Roku included and that turned out to be the case, and hadn't been clearly stated in the description.

Dex Sawash

Roku is feuding with HBO so Roku is not offering the HBOMAX app yet.
I get free HBOMAX with my internet but I can't get it to my tv right now.
So much for Roku being a neutral content pathway. It may be that we'll all be living a multi-dongle lifestyle.


edit- i have a TCL Roku tv, haven't noticed any app availability difference  between it and my 2 TVs that have roku sticks.

Puce Moment

Cheers - it looks like there were some Youtube issues with Hisense in the past. Oddly, it is now on their TVs in contrast to the Samsung Smart which lost the Youtube app years ago.

I am circling these TVs like a vulture about to get into horrid debt. I'm looking at these - my main thing is working out the difference and whether the reduced TVs are really worth it.

What would you get, and why?

LG 55UN73006LA
https://www.johnlewis.com/lg-55un73006la-2020-led-hdr-4k-ultra-hd-smart-tv-55-inch-with-freeview-hd-freesat-hd-ceramic-black/p4929718
£529.00

Hisense 55AE7400FTUK
https://www.johnlewis.com/hisense-55ae7400ftuk-2020-led-hdr-4k-ultra-hd-smart-tv-55-inch-with-freeview-play-black/p5027197
£549.00

LG 55SM8050PLC
https://www.johnlewis.com/lg-55sm8050plc-2020-led-hdr-nanocell-4k-ultra-hd-smart-tv-55-inch-with-freeview-play-freesat-hd-ceramic-black-dark-meteor-titan/p4929729
£579.00

Hisense 55U7QFTUK
https://www.johnlewis.com/hisense-55u7qftuk-2020-qled-hdr-4k-ultra-hd-smart-tv-55-inch-with-freeview-play-dolby-atmos-black/p5023066
£699.00

Sony Bravia KD55X7053
https://www.johnlewis.com/sony-bravia-kd55x7053-2020-led-hdr-4k-ultra-hd-smart-tv-55-inch-with-freeview-play-black/p4929604
£799.00



Sebastian Cobb

I used to work somewhere that did app development (we actually stopped supporting 2012 Samsungs while I was there, they're just as bad with tv's as they are with phones at dropping support prematurely and this app was proprietary).

Some things to consider is that the guts of smart tv's are quite similar, but can be just added to get a sale so can be underpowered in some sets, and tv makers are in the business of selling new tv's not supporting the software on them. I hope this is different with things like Roku tv, if it's made to the Roku spec and the software is the same unless they've put their own bloat on.

App-wise, there are several standards now, Samsung have their own linux OS, most TV's support Freeview Play as a standard and Sony use a modified version of Youview, all of these have html5 apps running under the hood so the apps should perform similarly. Roku uses its own scripting language so support may be lower, but I don't know if that's really the case in practice, most Roku users seem quite happy.

The takeaway point here is the 'smart' part of your television, no matter what you buy, is likely to become obsolete before the rest of your set (unless you don't keep televisions very long) and you'll probably need a stick at some point, so I wouldn't put it as a top priority if I were you.

Puce Moment

It seems odd to buy a TV with what has to be considered bloatware to some extent.

The Whathifi review says that about the Hisense:

"Inside this set is a digital tuner, with the Freeview Play service built-in. As ever, it makes for a usable EPG and a decent set of catch-up services, however, the VIDAA U4 Smart TV operating system comes up short on apps. Netflix, Prime Video and YouTube are all present, but notable absentees include Now TV, BT Sport, Apple TV, Google Play Movies & TV and Disney+."

I'm happy to access this via a separate Roku stick but I cannot understand how they can charge the same as other TVs given that many people simply won't use the apps on the TV and will clearly become dependent on a Roku or similar. Also, why would I use Freeview if I have already had to buy a Roku? 

Oh yeah, I don't see mention of in-built Roku anywhere on these Hisense TVs.

Sebastian Cobb

I haven't looked at the exact models you're looking at but they do make them.

https://www.argos.co.uk/sd/hisense-roku-tv/

Puce Moment

#12
Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on July 30, 2020, 02:40:12 PM
I haven't looked at the exact models you're looking at but they do make them.

https://www.argos.co.uk/sd/hisense-roku-tv/

Aha, that makes sense now. They actually produce both non-Roku and Roku enabled TVs. Some on that list don't have Roku on them, unless stated.

Glitch Edit: I'm trying to find out if the Roku TVs are supported - if not, it makes sense to simply keep updating the stick.

olliebean

Quote from: Puce Moment on July 30, 2020, 02:11:34 PMAlso, why would I use Freeview if I have already had to buy a Roku?

Because apart from the BBC and ITV channels, I don't think you can watch any of the other Freeview channels live via their Roku apps.

Puce Moment

Quote from: olliebean on July 30, 2020, 04:31:42 PMBecause apart from the BBC and ITV channels, I don't think you can watch any of the other Freeview channels live via their Roku apps.

Huh, ok. Some of these TVs come with limited but useful recording ability so it looks like I can ditch my BT Box finally. Cheers!

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: olliebean on July 30, 2020, 04:31:42 PM
Because apart from the BBC and ITV channels, I don't think you can watch any of the other Freeview channels live via their Roku apps.

UKTV can. Last time I looked both the app and the quality was shit though.

olliebean

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on July 30, 2020, 07:49:26 PM
UKTV can. Last time I looked both the app and the quality was shit though.

Oh, OK. It couldn't the last time I checked, which would have been a while ago now - there's not been anything I wanted to watch on Dave recently.

Really annoying that Channel 4 can't, though, given that you can watch live on the website.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: olliebean on July 30, 2020, 10:07:57 PM
Oh, OK. It couldn't the last time I checked, which would have been a while ago now - there's not been anything I wanted to watch on Dave recently.

Really annoying that Channel 4 can't, though, given that you can watch live on the website.

According to roku there's an all4 app.
https://channelstore.roku.com/en-gb/details/34785/all-4

Edit, sorry, didn't see live!

If you know of any roku apps that can play video streams I might be able to find them for you.

Puce Moment

OK lads, going to fucking pull the trigger on this today, and I could really do with some help, if possible.

The Hisense TVs without Roku are by the best and most expensive sets and I'm not sure why.

Can you see some obvious differences between these two 55" TVs:

With Roku: https://www.argos.co.uk/product/4166517

Without Roku: https://www.johnlewis.com/hisense-55ae7400ftuk-2020-led-hdr-4k-ultra-hd-smart-tv-55-inch-with-freeview-play-black/p5027197

It seems that the Hisense budget TVs come with Roku, and their higher end TVs do not. It's baffling me somewhat, and I wonder if I should just rely on my Roku stick. Ugh.




olliebean

There's a private Roku channel called FilmOn.TV that can play live streams from the Freeview channels, but the streams aren't always reliable and the resolution is frankly dismal (significantly sub-SD quality).

Puce Moment

Right - ordered. Going to stay with the Hisense with external Roku connection.

Now to find speakers!

Thanks guys. Really.

MojoJojo

Quote from: olliebean on July 30, 2020, 10:07:57 PM
Oh, OK. It couldn't the last time I checked, which would have been a while ago now - there's not been anything I wanted to watch on Dave recently.

Really annoying that Channel 4 can't, though, given that you can watch live on the website.

I've checked and you can watch Channel 4 live on 4od - and in E4, More4, Film4 and 4 7(?)
Lip sync was screwed on the little bit of Come dine with me I watched though.

The UKTV app gives you Dave, Yesterday and Drama (London's Burning, cor) live although it's a bit hidden away and arguably doesn't make much sense for these channels.

Five has 5, 5USA, 5STAR, Paramount Network, 5Select.

BBC and ITV already covered.

Apparently you can a QVC app.

That's a good proportion of Freeview. Although the experience is pretty different to channel surfing.

olliebean

Dammit, they've all added it since I last checked! That's good, then, I don't have to get my dodgy Freeview aerial replaced as I can now watch all the channels I ever watch anything on through the Roku.

Meanwhile, I'll remind myself to check my facts before I post anything in the future, and let's all just forget this embarrassing episode, m'kay?

Puce Moment

#23
Returning this piece of shit TV today.

Going to stick with Samsung I guess.

1. Defaults continually to that fucking terrible smooth setting that makes everything look like a South American soap. I have changed the settings about 40 times since the weekend.
2. The remote does not have play, rewind, ff capability (a button opens up a clunky interface but fuck that)
3. It does not register anything on HDMI apart from my Roku stick
4. If I do plug in my BT box to HDMI the TV firstly does not seem to recognise it and will spend every 5 seconds giving you alerts about this on screen until the box is unplugged
5. Roku works on the TV apart from the volume control, which requires you switch back to the Hisense remote for that function
6. The remote needs to be 'paired' to the TV via Bluetooth to get full functionality. It then disconnects frequently causing the TV to freeze forever.
7. The only way to stop the freezing is to turn off the TV at the mains. Then when the TV is back on, the batteries need to be removed from the remote, the power button pushed, and then the batteries replaced.
8. Nothing can be paired to the TV via bluetooth apart from the remote for about 2mins

Hisense wanted me to upload a bunch of images online that 'only takes about an hour' to issue a refund. I laughed, disconnected and pressed two buttons on the Argos page and they are collecting tomorrow.

Quite an amazing experience. I can't remember the last time I bought something so badly built for its requirements.

Puce Moment


Chedney Honks

A few years ago, I saved up a bit and got a mid-range Samsung NU8000 after deciding that OLED was too expensive. I thought it was really good and a clear step up from my 1080p Panasonic I'd had for the previous ten years or so. 4K and HDR were great!

Just before lockdown, I cashed in my summer holiday savings on an LG C9 OLED and it made me realise how much money and time I'd wasted getting that other telly a few years ago. Easily the best screen I've ever seen for movies and TV and if you plan to get a next or current gen console, it's comfortably the best television for gaming in every respect. It also does proper HDR, something I'd never actually experienced until this telly. Detail in shadows is incredible, contrast is literally perfect because pixels can be individually turned off. Several months on, I'm still blown away by it very often. It also has the lowest input lag of any television for gaming, incredibly precise and responsive.

My genuine advice would be that if you can stretch, get an OLED. If you can't, don't buy a different telly and save until you can.

Puce Moment

When I had adjusted the settings the image on screen was INCREDIBLE. About the best picture I have ever seen on a TV.

I think my prioroties have shifted somewhat to usability and common-sense interface and compatability, over a great screen, based on this experience.

Chedney Honks

LG interface is also very easy. I got used to it very quickly and it has far more scope for adjustments and stuff than my Samsung.

Puce Moment

I'm looking at the OLED LG models and there's nuffin under a grand. Oof - getting my head around the idea of spending four figures on a TV which wipes out getting speakers, or a PS4. However, given the state of the TV I spent £700 on, perhaps I do need to go higher!

MojoJojo

Quote from: Puce Moment on August 05, 2020, 12:33:11 PM
I'm looking at the OLED LG models and there's nuffin under a grand. Oof - getting my head around the idea of spending four figures on a TV which wipes out getting speakers, or a PS4. However, given the state of the TV I spent £700 on, perhaps I do need to go higher!

Given your main issue with the HiSense was the interface, probably better not to go for OLED and put the money towards speakers. Built-in speakers are never great and some are awful, and if you have external speakers it's something you don't need to worry about when choosing the TV.

Interface issues aren't really something that spending more money will directly improve. The bigger brands will probably be more consistent though.