Author Topic: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.  (Read 5680 times)

j_u_d_a_s

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Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2020, 01:43:31 AM »
Spitting Image having the then Tory cabinet singing tomorrow belongs to me seems to have a bit more bite than the usual “cuh tories eh?”

https://youtu.be/ReIAna459sg

Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2020, 02:15:27 AM »
Even if you didn't like Jeremy Corbyn or didn't want to publicly side with him for (financial) Reasons, you could've easily made jokes about the media coverage of Jeremy Corbyn. HBomberguy did exactly that in his Electionwatch 2017 video. Oh wait - that would've pissed off the billionaires who control the press, wouldn't it.
i wish hbomberguy could keep making this sort of content, not just sitting on his patreon bucks and making two and half hour videos about how a shit pretend-anime video game harry potter cartoon made by fucking incompetent manchildren is shit, actually

Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2020, 02:53:03 AM »
Sadly for his supporters, Jeremy Corbyn is an inherently comic figure.

How?

Brundle-Fly

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Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2020, 03:03:37 AM »
Even if you didn't like Jeremy Corbyn or didn't want to publicly side with him for (financial) Reasons, you could've easily made jokes about the media coverage of Jeremy Corbyn. HBomberguy did exactly that in his Electionwatch 2017 video. Oh wait - that would've pissed off the billionaires who control the press, wouldn't it.

HBomberguy? Jesus. Why do these figures whom I might share complete empathy with have to be such narcissistic fops?

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

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Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2020, 03:19:19 AM »
i wish hbomberguy could keep making this sort of content, not just sitting on his patreon bucks and making two and half hour videos about how a shit pretend-anime video game harry potter cartoon made by fucking incompetent manchildren is shit, actually
I don't donate to his Patreon so I don't care what videos he does

unless he swerves violently into doing alt-right vids

Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2020, 06:06:31 AM »
Jeremy Corbyn is "inherently comic" to the extent that he's a bit of an anorakish nerd who likes making jam and cataloguing manhole covers. When comedians like Frankie Boyle and Charlie Brooker made gags premised on Corbyn and his supporters being antisemites and holocaust deniers, they weren't following some organic comic impulse sparked by any innate quality in the man, they were simply parroting a Tory attack line because they lacked the conviction, courage or imagination to do anything other than join in with the closing of ranks by the media class against the insurgent Labour left.

Very good post

Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2020, 06:48:01 AM »
Spitting Image was always toothless, so I agree with you there, but have a look at this Fry and Laurie anti-privatisation sketch.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?index=8&t=0s&list=PLRw4AnLSx3uMLe-16-6-hABnkXJOYVcVd&v=vLfghLQE3F4
I don't see anythibg like that been made nowadays on UK tv.

Remember when not having essential services privatised was a fairly everyday, moderate view?

Not that that's changed much in the minds of the public (hence nationalisation opinion polling fairly highly), but you wouldn't know it from looking at the media.

Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2020, 07:56:20 AM »
Curses! Foiled again by those dastardly centrist comedians! If only they'd fallen in line and been nice to Jeremy, his competence and electoral popularity would have shone like a beacon to the doubtful masses.

NoSleep

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Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2020, 08:00:59 AM »
Curses! Foiled again by those dastardly centrist comedians! If only they'd fallen in line and been nice to Jeremy, his competence and electoral popularity would have shone like a beacon to the doubtful masses.

That hardly the point; they did fall in line.

Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2020, 08:01:05 AM »
that's not the point of this and you know it isn't.

EDIT : not you, NoSleep

Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2020, 08:19:04 AM »
Curses! Foiled again by those dastardly centrist comedians! If only they'd fallen in line and been nice to Jeremy, his competence and electoral popularity would have shone like a beacon to the doubtful masses.

Yeh thank fuck we got Boris. There’s a man whose competence and electoral popularity shone through all on its own, to a grateful nation of thoughtful, educated, rational people who don’t need the media to tell them what to think thank you very much!!
P.S. Coybyns a big scruffy terrorist 😂 lol

Retinend

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Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2020, 08:30:09 AM »
I saw Simon Munnery a few years back doing a work in progress for his Kierkegaard show which opened with him genuinely reading about 12 minutes of Kierkegaards work. The work in progress bit of the show was the fact he had an idea for a show about the themes of Kierkegaard but hadn't actually made any jokes so the whole thing was a rather interesting, but bizarre hour of comedy to a festival crowd out for some laffs from "Britain's Funniest Comedian".

Excellent post. Kierkegaard regarded himself as Socrates reborn into 19th century Danish society. He believed that a socratic from of irony was a means by which one could live a life free of suffering - his personal definition of "irony" meant that you never directly rail against the prevailing intellectual trends of your time, but, like Socrates, pretend to be utterly convinced by them, and make havoc while working within their presumptions. Also this all sounds suspiciously like "satire", but this kind of irony is less direct and more about a view of life, rather than a performance for the public, as satire is - and perhaps this was why he wrote this aphorism about satire doing more harm than good.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 11:15:54 AM by Retinend »

thenoise

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Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2020, 09:09:03 AM »
Jeremy Corbyn is "inherently comic" to the extent that he's a bit of an anorakish nerd who likes making jam and cataloguing manhole covers. When comedians like Frankie Boyle and Charlie Brooker made gags premised on Corbyn and his supporters being antisemites and holocaust deniers, they weren't following some organic comic impulse sparked by any innate quality in the man, they were simply parroting a Tory attack line because they lacked the conviction, courage or imagination to do anything other than join in with the closing of ranks by the media class against the insurgent Labour left.

Yes. In fact, if they satirised Jeremy Corbyn in a more truthful way, playing up his dour vegetarian morality or his sober old-fashioned hobbies, it might have opened him up to more support. Much like Thatcher's handbags at dawn iron lady image did wonders for her public image among a certain class of people that fetishise 'strong leadership'. By drumming up the 'threat' of Corbyn they had to ignore the Corbyn that was actually presented to us, and create a hateful revolutionary racist figure. It never really convinced, at least not in comic terms. Clearly it was enough to secure loveable rogue Boris's resounding victory.

BlodwynPig

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Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2020, 09:54:58 AM »
Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse agrees he was doomed to failure.

Wibble. Take your goal of the season and shove it up your arse.

BlodwynPig

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Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2020, 09:56:55 AM »
Curses! Foiled again by those dastardly centrist comedians! If only they'd fallen in line and been nice to Jeremy, his competence and electoral popularity would have shone like a beacon to the doubtful masses.

The paid bots have awoken from the hubris slumbers.

BlodwynPig

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Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2020, 09:58:46 AM »
Excellent post. Kierkegaard regarded himself as Socrates reborn into 19th century Danish society. He believed that a socratic from of irony was a means by which one could live a life free of suffering - his personal definition of "irony" meant that you never directly rail against the prevailing intellectual trends of your time, but, like Socrates, pretend to be utterly convinced by them, and make havoc while working within their presumptions. Also this all sounds suspiciously like "satire", but this kind of irony is less direct and more about a view of life, rather than a performance for this public - and perhaps this was why he wrote this aphorism about satire doing more harm than good.

Pie and a pint?

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

  • Le corpse garlique of Hercule Poirot
Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #46 on: August 02, 2020, 01:41:00 PM »
Curses! Foiled again by those dastardly centrist comedians! If only they'd fallen in line and been nice to Jeremy, his competence and electoral popularity would have shone like a beacon to the doubtful masses.
I agree with you in part. It would be foolish to blame toothless comedians for Labour losing the election. We now know that not only was Corbyn subjected to an ongoing character assassination by the media, he was sabotaged by a faction of his own party who deliberately did nothing about complaints of anti-Semitism in order to damage him.

But the question is, why did so many ostensibly leftie comedians buy into the media portrayal of Corbyn? I'm sure some of them are just of the opinion that all politicians are bad. Some of them really believed that he was a terrorist sympathiser/anti-Semite/Commie/obviously dodgy in some way because the BBC would never lie to us. Some didn't want to alienate the media moguls they might later rely on for employment. And for some it was a combination of some or all of those things.

I have this feeling that mainstream comedy, including mainstream standup, is going to become more and more toothless because nobody is going to make money off challenging the rich and powerful. I think it's one reason we're seeing popular comics doing "Political Correctness Has Gone Mad" shows on Netflix and on TV. Gotta uphold that status quo. Gotta keep the masses fighting each other. Gotta make white- I mean British working class suspicious of immigints coming to "take our jobs". Gotta focus women's attention on The Trans Menace. Can't let anybody think about who has the real power here, why they have it, and whether they should have it.

BlodwynPig

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Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #47 on: August 02, 2020, 01:57:27 PM »
You can shove your 8 and a half cats UP YOUR ARSE

Autopsy Turvey

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Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2020, 02:41:40 PM »
apparently you can't wish death even on hateful scum who would happily see you die (especially if you're poor or foreign or unlucky in other ways).

I suspect you probably can, if you find a funny enough way to do it. Spitting Image found a universally distrusted target (regardless of politics, everybody thinks estate agents are pricks) and a silly catchy melody (I haven't heard the song for decades and it's been stuck in my head since I read that article).

Problem is though, this sort of 'wishing death on hateful scum' position usually seems to come from self-righteous, embittered, snarling zealot types, and anyone embracing fantasies of violence from a sanctimonious perspective will find it hard for the subject of their joke to end up seeming more stupid, intolerant and cunty than the teller of the joke.

Yes. In fact, if they satirised Jeremy Corbyn in a more truthful way, playing up his dour vegetarian morality or his sober old-fashioned hobbies, it might have opened him up to more support. Much like Thatcher's handbags at dawn iron lady image did wonders for her public image among a certain class of people that fetishise 'strong leadership'.

Who doesn't think strong leadership is important? Not sure that is a fetish exactly, but it is why your harmless ascetic dweeb Corbyn caricature would likely not have done wonders for his electoral chances, even if it may have endeared people to him as a man. But he did seem doomed to fail right from the earliest joke at his expense, ie that Tories had signed up to vote him in as leader to guarantee Labour's continued defeat.

Quote
By drumming up the 'threat' of Corbyn they had to ignore the Corbyn that was actually presented to us, and create a hateful revolutionary racist figure. It never really convinced, at least not in comic terms. Clearly it was enough to secure loveable rogue Boris's resounding victory.

There were multiple factors to the Conservative victory, the Red Wall didn't collapse because Northern working men were outraged by what the media told them about Corbyn's handling of antisemitism in the Labour Party. I never saw any serious accusations of racism levelled personally at Jezpeas, nor would I have believed them. As far as I could see, the problem was that a nice old-fashioned career backbencher in his twilight years had been spectacularly overpromoted by a rabid fanbase that included many noisy young stupid hateful intolerant revolutionary communist cunts. With these little demons hoisting him up, the caricature of the doddery jam making nerd would have seemed equally damning.

BlodwynPig

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Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2020, 02:50:51 PM »
why are people embittered do you think?

Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2020, 02:53:03 PM »
noisy young stupid hateful intolerant revolutionary communist cunts

mate

Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #51 on: August 02, 2020, 03:02:22 PM »
to coin a phrase:

ok boomer

NoSleep

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Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #52 on: August 02, 2020, 03:12:51 PM »
But the question is, why did so many ostensibly leftie comedians buy into the media portrayal of Corbyn? I'm sure some of them are just of the opinion that all politicians are bad. Some of them really believed that he was a terrorist sympathiser/anti-Semite/Commie/obviously dodgy in some way because the BBC would never lie to us. Some didn't want to alienate the media moguls they might later rely on for employment. And for some it was a combination of some or all of those things.

I suppose you could add another option there. One of the problems of communicating humour to a wider audience is having material where there is some common ground between the comedian and the audience. Normally, humour (as in real life, between people that know one another) doesn't have to adhere to this rule; it's purpose built for maybe delivering to as little as one other person. The commercial product built from natural humour is the business of comedy. Using tropes like "Corbyn is an antisemite" is just easy (lazy) pickings. The idea is to have to set up as little as possible beforehand (and be in a situation where where canned laughter can be added later on).

Brundle-Fly

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Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2020, 03:21:04 PM »
Is Corbyn exempt from satire then? Even Corbynites must've chuckled a bit when Stewart Lee called him Catweazle.

chveik

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Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #54 on: August 02, 2020, 03:24:04 PM »
Is Corbyn exempt from satire then?

what is there to satirise? he's a decent man in a world of awful cunts. and it's so fucking funny to call holocaust denier a notorious antiracist.

Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #55 on: August 02, 2020, 03:27:37 PM »

But the question is, why did so many ostensibly leftie comedians buy into the media portrayal of Corbyn? I'm sure some of them are just of the opinion that all politicians are bad. Some of them really believed that he was a terrorist sympathiser/anti-Semite/Commie/obviously dodgy in some way because the BBC would never lie to us. Some didn't want to alienate the media moguls they might later rely on for employment. And for some it was a combination of some or all of those things.


If you look at the timeline of Corbyn's leadership then it was Brexit that did him almost from the off. Corbyn became leader in September 2015 and Brexit vote was June 2016. I would argue that a lot of the criticism of Corbyn over his Brexit campaigning was unfair but there was definitely a backlash that summer from Corbyn supporters that he hadn't done enough*.

The other thing that some people have forgotten about is that the problems with Corbyn's Labour and antisemitism go back that far too. There seems to be an established belief that the Tories/Press went on the attack over this post Corbyn's 2017 relative successes but Labour had been bringing this on themselves way before then.

Naz Shah was suspendeed in April 2016 which then led to Ken Livingstone's Hitler was a zionist comments. The Chakrabathi report was also June 2016 that did nothing to help the defense against accusations Labour wasn't taking this issue seriously enough.

---

So there you have two issues that most of his supporters were passionate about (pro-EU, anti-racist) that Corbyn was facing criticism for that was not entirely baseless as early as summer 2016. Any whataboutism arguments are irrelevent here as yes we know the Tories are cunts but in context of stand up the issue that article raises is why did these comics attack the Tories AND Corbyn.



Brundle-Fly

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Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2020, 03:29:53 PM »
what is there to satirise? he's a decent man in a world of awful cunts. and it's so fucking funny to call holocaust denier a notorious antiracist.

If we live in a world of awful cunts, then why do we even bother?

Old Nehamkin

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Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2020, 03:34:06 PM »

BlodwynPig

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Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2020, 03:34:24 PM »
Is Corbyn exempt from satire then? Even Corbynites must've chuckled a bit when Stewart Lee called him Catweazle.

:|

NoSleep

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Re: Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2020, 03:35:28 PM »
If we live in a world of awful cunts, then why do we even bother?

If we live in a world full of awful political cunts, then why not try sticking some of those barbs into them? I'm sure there could have been some satire about Corbyn's misrepresentation to be had that many would have recognised. But no.

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