Sad ire: comedy, centrists and Corbyn.

[Autopsy Turvey]

'Rik', please?

No no, the character is Rick and that's who they're like, they're not like Rik.

[Brundle-Fly]

No no, the character is Rick and that's who they're like, they're not like Rik.

Ok

[tribalfusion]

Thanks to the OP for posting this. I remember being shocked when Christie and Lee laid into him on their recent babysitter shows at the LST. It met with a muted response then.

At this point 'centrist' seems like a compliment for people like Ianucci, Brooker and Hislop who must think they are leftie simply because of the company they keep.

What exactly did they say and is it available anywhere online? Thanks!

[tribalfusion]

I don't live in the UK but follow politics and comedy there pretty closely and it seems obvious Corbyn was smeared by a wide range of miscreants in the political arena.

I'm not sure things were much better years ago. I think it's more a case of not having a significant national figure representing an actual left which caused the battle lines to become more evident (as with Sanders in the US where similar schisms revealed themselves) but they were always there and occasionally visible to those who paid more attention in the past

The comedians who were the most useless were of the center or center-left variety. I didn't expect much from many of them and some still managed to disappoint. Armando might as well be a hack putting out talking points for the Lib-Dems like one of his own characters or for Hillary Clinton. In fact I think he could be a West Wing character.

I'm still waiting to hear what Lee and Christie said more precisely and what little I have seen from reading what is available online suggests a studied distance and unwillingness to take up arms (which is also disappointing) more than the trash from the usual suspects but then they have always seemed to me to be solid liberals more than actual leftists, albeit more consistent than Richard Herring (who also deserves some mention here as another of the comics who seemed to have more problems with Corbyn than with the trash attacking him).  I do think that Lee was rather prickish with Russell Brand and his more recent left political bent when Lee reviewed Brand in the Guardian a few years back.

Still, I wish the piece had focused a bit more on the actual left-wing comics who aren't so coy about their politics like Mark Thomas, Mark Steel, Rob Newman etc. In my thread on the left in comedy in the UK recently I did include some people like Armando which did spark some similar discussion about what left should mean in this context. I listed them for completeness sake and because of how they are viewed in terms of being comics who do left leaning political and social commentary but obviously quite a few are pretty weak in that regard (apart from the stalwarts).

Here's that list again and I'd welcome any other suggestions:

Mark Thomas
Mark Steel
Rob Newman
Josie Long
Ian Saville
Russell Brand
Alexei Sayle
Chris Coltrane
Stewart Lee
Richard Herring
Bridget Christie
Frankie Boyle
Paul Thorne
Simon Munnery
Marcus Brigstocke
Robin Ince
Jeremy Hardy
Jo Brand
Nish Kumar
Chris Tavner
Tom Mayhew
Norman Lovett
Steve Gribbin
Andy Zaltzman
Linda Smith
Jo Lycett
Daniel Kitson
Joe Wells
Jen Brister
Jonny Donahoe

[tribalfusion]

Delete

[Leo2112]

lol at Dara Ó Briain tantrum https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/1290011699475394560

[tribalfusion]

Code Select Expand

lol at Dara Ó Briain tantrum https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/1290011699475394560

Dara is right up there with Armando in the clueless cringe category.

Pathetic.

[Autopsy Turvey]

lol at Dara Ó Briain tantrum https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/1290011699475394560

Lol more at the mob of entitled twitter Corbynite dipshits desperately overstating the importance of TV presenter apathy in the election result, instead of facing up to the role that they played in making his leadership synonymous with obsessive internet bully boy screeching that no normal person would want  anything to do with.

[jobotic]

Yeah, you said.

Stop repeating yourself, it sounds like obsessive internet bully boy screeching and normal people won't want anything to do with you.

[peanutbutter]

How on earth is someone like Dara O'Briain with 2.5 million followers even finding it possible to zone in on any specific mentions? Iannucci has a quarter as many followers and asides from showing himself up on the election results he hasn't been so much embarrassing as just disappointing in a manner we should've noticed ages ago anyways.

I'd say he's itching for a "#daraobriainisoverparty" to happen so he can go on some tirade

[greencalx]

For me the disappointment doesn't lie so much in a comedian / satirist holding a centre-left opinion and finding Corbyn's social democratic position too challenging. It's more specific disappointment with people like Iannucci and Hislop for being extremely perceptive in identifying unsavoury aspects of the New Labour approach to government (e.g., the cosy relationship with the media, the revolving door between government and private contractors who happen by amazing coincidence to be awarded major government contracts, accounting tricks like PFI, ...), for having a deep and clear understanding of media spin, bandwagon jumping and distraction techniques, and then having a massive blind spot when it comes to trumped-up claims of racism on the part of the Labour leadership.

I'm particularly disappointed with Hislop / Private Eye which would normally be quite keen to cover media hypocrisy and humbug in some detail. Hislop did come close by commenting on HIGNFY that anti-Israel criticism was being branded as anti-semitic by people who wanted these things to be easily confused (with a strong implication that this not with honourable intent). Really, this should have been backed up with a Private Eye special investigation into the whole fandango, but I fear that taking a fair and balanced approach on this might have risked them losing too many readers...

[lipsink]

Matt Forde has been a Labour Party Member since he was 15. If you don't know what his views are on Jeremy Corbyn I'll let you take a guess:

[BlodwynPig]

Matt "I've only got one suit and shirt" Forde

[buttgammon]

Matt "I've only got one suit and shirt" Forde

He has a wardrobe full of them, having bought a load to copy the one his idol Blair is wearing in the top picture.

[TrenterPercenter]

Lol more at the mob of entitled twitter Corbynite dipshits desperately overstating the importance of TV presenter apathy in the election result, instead of facing up to the role that they played in making his leadership synonymous with obsessive internet bully boy screeching that no normal person would want  anything to do with.

See I'm having to agree with AT here.  He is right (on this).

Dara O'Briain regardless of anything is perfectly at liberty to make jokes, even shit ones, about Corbyn, it is his job.....to make shit satire, he owes nothing to anyone but the transactional relationship of his comedy.  He is in the business of getting paid for comedy not to support a politician some people like.

That doesn't mean he is above criticism. Imo there is a certain amount of bullshittery about progressive causes in order to gain a crowd that moves things into a moral issue.  A certain amount of that transactional relationship I mentioned is the audience wanting the comic to say insulting things to the Tories, they know that you like it and will pay to see it, they also know there is another crowd of people that want to see Corbyn attacked (especially white middle class concert goers that have got the hump about Brexit), therefore they are just doing what they do. 

Now this is potentially good for the left if it can get its head out of its arse and stop talking about Corbyn as he was anything other than the radioactive dye in the system that showed how corrupt it is.  We can start arguing about the exploitation (just like blaxploitation , sexploitation) of left wing values by comedians (its kind of missing this by emotively focusing on Corbyn).  Dara O'Briain, to take one such example, is obviously progressive but in the market place for comedy that perhaps won't be enough, there conditions from this are absolutely ripe for a good comedic analysis of what occurred (I mean Lee has actually be talking about this for sometimes in his attacks on other comics) but light entertainment comedians like O'Briain are of course not going provide anything but pain by numbers snarks based on newspaper twaddle (I mean who fucking watches MTW anymore anyway).

[chveik]

See I'm having to agree with AT here.  He is right (on this).

careful

[notjosh]

Dara O'Briain regardless of anything is perfectly at liberty to make jokes, even shit ones, about Corbyn, it is his job.....to make shit satire, he owes nothing to anyone but the transactional relationship of his comedy.  He is in the business of getting paid for comedy not to support a politician some people like.

Not having a go at you as I know you're not exactly endorsing it, but the idea that satirists should make 'jokes' about everyone and everything is one of the reasons I stopped watching/listening to satire. Jokes are cheap, you can make them about anything. And their function in most 'satire' shows is not to find what is essentially comedic about the political situation, or to shed light on a subject in a surprising way. It's to say "look, there are jokes in this, we are therefore fulfilling our remit as makers of comedy". Joke to open the show. Joke to introduce each guest. Joke for the top 3 news stories. Joke about government. Joke about opposition for 'balance'. Joke to take us to the break. Joke to bring us back from the break. Joke, joke, jokity joke... Up at the beginning of the sentence and down at the end of the sentence.... 28 years old I was, and that was just the teachers. Who actually gives a fuck?

Good satire should be funny, unexpected, startling ideas and bold, cliche-smashing presentation. That's why I could probably quote a hundred lines/moments/turns of phrase from The Day Today, but I don't think I could recall a single BBC/Channel 4 satire joke I have ever head.

[Chriddof]

I keep thinking of that quote from Peter Cook, that goes something like "one day, Britain may find itself sinking giggling into the sea". Especially whenever I hear the audience blankly chortling away on HIGNFY. I just did a search for it to get the exact wording, but instead found this American article from late 2016:

https://leaderscompass.org/tag/sinking-giggling-into-the-sea/

A lot of Americans had reactions like that after Trump's election, and they acted accordingly. America now has some kind of left wing resurgence, and we're stuck with evil little chuckles at whatever you care to mention.

[EOLAN]

Matt Forde has been a Labour Party Member since he was 15. If you don't know what his views are on Jeremy Corbyn I'll let you take a guess:

Heard him on the TALKING POLITICS podcast. The podcast is usually a bit better than others and much more even handed than the cack from BBC and Guardian. But oh my god his interview was infuriating. Just a Tory wannabe who wanted to be cool when he was young and was happy to go for Tory-lite while still stating he don't like them.
And of course it if all the Corbynistas and young lefties who are meant to be the bullies and rude ones but he wasn't at all one bit polite about Corbyn and his followers. Was one reason I was happy Nottingham Forest had such a funny agonizing end to their season.

[pancreas]

People have been retweeting Chris Morris's interview on C4.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1179419540939268097?s=20

I can't see very much in common with what you are saying, Trenter.

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

Imagine writing jokes.

[Brundle-Fly]

People have been retweeting Chris Morris's interview on C4.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1179419540939268097?s=20

I can't see very much in common with what you are saying, Trenter.

I just watched the whole interview. Never seen that before. It's frustrating CM doesn't enjoy doing stuff like this because he's such an eloquent, fascinating interviewee. I could have done with another hour of that.

[BritishHobo]

I love that interview. It's become a proper cliché, that thing of 'Donald Trump is beyond satire'. Sure he in himself is a ridiculous figure, and if all you're aiming to do is a sort of Newzoids parody where you just exaggerate a political figure, then yeah, you're gonna struggle to find much to do. But for satirists who are actually interested in unpicking the situation around him, the political climate whereby this big untethered hot air balloon of a man has risen to power as an anti-establishment figure, and why the absurd,  horrible things he does chime with so many people in the US, there's just as much to work with as ever. What better to satirise than an America that has elected a hugely wealthy man who plainly only cares about himself, to supposedly 'drain the swamp' and help the working men (who abhor the idea of helping others). The hold on American politics taken by extremist conspiracy theorists who were dismissed as funny loonies a decade or two ago but have now captured the imaginations of so many people so eager to be skeptical of established news sources that they'll accept any unverified 'facts' that confirm their worldview. The sheer nakedness of the racism and misogyny that infects it all. There's so much there for people willing to try, people who want to do a bit more than make jokes like 'As Starbucks announce they won't serve customers who aren't wearing masks, Donald Trump has said he doesn't mind because they don't serve covfefe!'

That said, I watched The Day Shall Come in the cinema, and while I adored it, it left me feeling a bit sad and futile. Morris has clearly spent a long time investigating very real and appalling things being done by the FBI, reprehensible and deeply sinister manipulation of vulnerable people for the purposes of base propaganda and making themselves look powerful - but I left the cinema wondering what effect it could possibly have. Not because of the quality of the film, or Morris' choices, but just as an inevitably of the reaction to film. Sometimes a film captures the public imagination enough to force real-world change or colour perception - a bit like Blackfish and SeaWorld, or the way The Social Network has affected the way most people see Mark Zuckerberg - but for the most part people just go home and file it away as good or bad, and any angry or passionate feelings it inspired in most people will fade as they get home and remember they've got work in the morning, or it's bin day and they've forgot to take the fucking bin out again so it's gonna be four weeks worth of binbags now stinking up their front path.

[EOLAN]

Did the Social Network really affect the way people viewed Zuckerberg. In the aftermath of Hillary Clinton's defeat in November 2016; some of the zanier wings of Democrat support seemed to be pushing either him or Oprah Winfrey as the 2020 candidate.

Isn't it just how Zuckerberg has reacted since under the mildest of scrutinies; combined with these people needing to affiliate some of the blame to Facebook and others - that have seen him pushed to the wrong side of the Democrats' base.

[SavageHedgehog]

I think The Social Network was probably the first time a lot of people heard of Zuckerberg, so it probably did play a bit part in how he was perceived for a while. Over the years (particularly the last 2-3) we've learned to dislike him on his own terms however.

[lipsink]

That film portrays him as a dick but also strangely sympathetic. He's lonely and wounded by being dumped by his girlfriend. Also, I'm sure a lot of people found him quite 'cool' in moments like where he gives that big "It's raining" speech or where he shows up the University lecturer. Like Heath Ledger's Joker he's probably become a hero for a little of angry young white men out there.

[dissolute ocelot]

I think The Social Network was probably the first time a lot of people heard of Zuckerberg, so it probably did play a bit part in how he was perceived for a while. Over the years (particularly the last 2-3) we've learned to dislike him on his own terms however.

Yeah, a lot of Facebook users probably never even considered that the site was created by human beings for reasons other than to make the whole world happy, until The Social Network. Both to people who discovered he was a creep and people who decided they could create a billion-dollar website in their spare time. At the same time, it's well known that it's not entirely accurate (although less clearly known what is untrue), and there's been a lot of subsequent more serious revelations about data privacy etc. The irony being that I don't think the film was intended as a wholesale demolition of Facebook or Zuckerberg, more a study of flawed characters. So you can argue whether political filmmaking is better when keeping to the facts or when going to extremes of caricature and abuse.

[machotrouts]

Sadly for his supporters, Jeremy Corbyn is an inherently comic figure.

Jeremy Corbyn is demonstrably the only one of the four most recent Labour leaders who doesn't suffer from Resting Gormless Face

[idunnosomename]

He has a wardrobe full of them, having bought a load to copy the one his idol Blair is wearing in the top picture.

also took his creepy grin

[Endicott]

People have been retweeting Chris Morris's interview on C4.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1179419540939268097?s=20

I can't see very much in common with what you are saying, Trenter.

Morris isn't the type of comic being discussed, he's an actual maverick. Ó Briain is precisely the type who is going, as Morris describes it, for the slap on the back from the orthodox elite, because that's lucrative. That's partially at least Trenter's criticism of DOB, as I read it, in his last post.