Coming out as A Gay (in the time of COVID)?

[Cloud]

Big fan of the quegs.

I'll shag most things, but pasties are a bit much!

[DistressedArea]

If you come out and it doesn't go very well can't you just go back in?

[Famous Mortimer]

All the other gays get together and are like "you can have this one back"

[shiftwork2]

.

[Famous Mortimer]

Dammit, I quoted too quickly. Plz delete this.

[shiftwork2]

cripes you reply quick!!!

[shiftwork2]

They'll want to know what it was now.  How would you describe it?

[rack and peanut]

If you come out and it doesn't go very well can't you just go back in?

I pretty much did this when I came onto another guy once, he didn't reciprocate and I felt I had to play it off as homoerotic bants.

[SirDidymus]

I pretty much did this when I came onto another guy once, he didn't reciprocate and I felt I had to play it off as homoerotic bants.

If you came on to him, that's not too hard to pass off as bants.  If you came onto him... well, it shows a lot of commitment to the jape.

[Sin Agog]

Definitely make sure your safety and well-being are first, don't start with telling people who are definitely homophobic. I think the best bet is to start with close friends.

That is good advice, but I do think the first person you should tell is your boyfriend.

[poo]

I'm not gay but my boyfriend is! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[flotemysost]

Joining in the chorus of dismay here that 'coming out' still has to be a source of anguish for anyone. I grew up in a pretty middle-class, suburban, seemingly liberal area, and still some of my gay friends were subjected to disgusting levels of homophobia, enabled by boomer parents' and teachers' willful ignorance and prudish refusal to engage with the topic at all. This was in the early/mid-2000s, so not exactly a lifetime ago, but I'm hopeful that things have progressed since then.

Not much practical advice or experience to offer on the process itself I'm afraid, but it really does seem to be something that's different for everyone. One guy I know (who also ended up coming out in his mid-20s, incidentally) had always been a sort of effete and virginal type, but as he'd admitted to having crushes on girls in the past, I think everyone assumed he was just a bit shy and inexperienced. Then one summer he suddenly started going on about all these girls he'd been dating, it was like he was a different person - non-stop action apparently, these chicks couldn't get enough of him, then he quickly added "oh and by the way actually they're men not women, and I'm gay". 

Another gay mate recently told me that sharing your 'coming out story' is always a good go-to icebreaker on dates. So (assuming you're single) here's hoping you have lots of opportunities to do that in the near future. Best of luck to you.

(Edited slightly after reading SC's post below as it might have unintentionally sounded like I don't believe that coming out is difficult any more, and I understand that's not the case at all.)

[Twit 2]

Best way to come out to your parents is to fuck your dad. He loves it.

[Non Stop Dancer]

I'll bet he does, the dirty old bollocks, I'll bet he fucking does.

[Schrodingers Cat]

Schrodingers Cat, do you know any gay people personally?

No. Which is obviously part of the problem, I don't have any direct contact (for want fo a better word) into the gay world, so it feels so alien to me. Obviously, I know not every gay person goes to gay clubs and so on, and I'm not really a fan of nightclubs at the best of times, but I feel like there's a complete disconnect between these parts of my life if that makes sense?

League or Union? If it's the former you're probably alright.

All the best to you x

Both actually, League in Summer, Union in Winter. I am very much a League fan, though. In fact, the only thread on here which I could be considered a main contributor to is the RL thread. And that's only because there's only about six of us :/ [nb]You should join in, if you're a fan of TGG, on matchdays, we sometimes get upwards of 3 posts in an afternoon! With your help, it could one day become 5, or even 6![/nb]

Sadly, though, whilst it doesn't have the deliberately anti-pc, 'banter lads' posh-boys that still infest Union clubs, I think League's creation myth of being a sport for progressives, once hard-earned and irrefutable, is rapidly being eroded away. With each controversy (whether BLM, or homophobia[nb]not that I'm equating the two, of course, but racism and homophobia do have superficial similarities[/nb], etc.) the reactionary "You can't say anything nowadays!" voices get stronger. Let's not forget, of course, Isreal Falou came to Super League after Australian RU banned him. But I'm getting off topic...

<Snip>

Thank you for taking the time to write all of this, it has given me a lot to think about. Not all of which I've finished processing yet.

I suppose the other little bit of context missing is that I'm currently waiting for an assessment for ASD after a referral late last year, and that I don't really have anyone I'd consider a 'close' friend - I just sort of lost contact with my old friends from school/uni over the years and the only friends I have now I know from rugby. It is effectively my whole social life. Well, that and lurking on here I suppose...

Initial thoughts (and this ties in other posters' contributions as well) are that I realise it looks like I'm probably building up all this in my head too much (which isn't healthy for a start) and I get that, but whenever I feel like I might be OK to talk to someone, that's when I'll hear a story in which (intentional or otherwise) the gist is that "someone being gay is, like, hilarious, gay sex especially so. Wouldn't it be awful to be gay? Eurghh!" And I accept that I'm hyper aware of this, but its hard to hear and still feel like I'd be welcome, and treated the same as ever. To clarify, I don't think I'd be cast out, pariah-ed, or, worse, attacked. Not exactly. It's just feeling that once I tell people, everything changes. At that point I stop being seen how I am now, and become "there's [my name], he's gay". Like I'd be treated differently than everyone else. Not even necessarily worse, just different.

I accept as well this may be entirely in my head. Many on here seem surprised at this even being an issue. And maybe it is. And I can see other people saying how if someone has an issue, then it's their problem, not mine. But how can it not be my problem if people I previously considered friends react badly? (I'm not saying they will - but I don't know they won't) Like its the easiest thing in the world to completely change my social group and find new friends overnight?

As for my parents as some have asked, (and apologies for not picking out everyone by name, I really do appreciate people responding to my self-indulgent ramblings in this glorious blue space) I don't think they'll react badly tbh. Now, obviously I don't know that, but I can't see them being too negative about it. I'm still not exactly enthusiastic about telling them though. My plan was always to hope I'd get a boyfriend or something, and that being a way into telling them? Unfortunately, that seems to be very much playing the long game... Sadly, I'm not particularly appealing to men or women it seems, and living where I do, there isn't exactly a large cohort of available sorts to increase my odds

[Hand Solo]

Sadly, I'm not particularly appealing to men or women it seems, and living where I do, there isn't exactly a large cohort of available sorts to increase my odds

Just download Grindr, there'll be loads on there no matter where you are, though not everyone shows their face at first on their profile for obvious reasons. Or at least there's a bunch of less industrial gay dating apps that aren't more hookup based.

And friends will treat you differently, maybe not all of them, but when I told people even the ones that thought they were really liberal couldn't help but say annoying things like "We stopped off in this bar the other night and there was a drag act on, you'd have really enjoyed it," thinking they're being inclusive when I've specifically told them that isn't my scene at all. Or think you will like going to a venue with cheese and ABBA music playing because that's what gays like, innit? They know the kind of music I'm into and it isn't that? Though a fair few other friends didn't give a fuck and I haven't noticed much of a difference.

[Sin Agog]

Initial thoughts (and this ties in other posters' contributions as well) are that I realise it looks like I'm probably building up all this in my head too much (which isn't healthy for a start) and I get that, but whenever I feel like I might be OK to talk to someone, that's when I'll hear a story in which (intentional or otherwise) the gist is that "someone being gay is, like, hilarious, gay sex especially so. Wouldn't it be awful to be gay? Eurghh!" And I accept that I'm hyper aware of this, but its hard to hear and still feel like I'd be welcome, and treated the same as ever. To clarify, I don't think I'd be cast out, pariah-ed, or, worse, attacked. Not exactly. It's just feeling that once I tell people, everything changes. At that point I stop being seen how I am now, and become "there's [my name], he's gay". Like I'd be treated differently than everyone else. Not even necessarily worse, just different.

There's that Kurt Cobain lyric 'I miss the comfort in being sad' that sometimes applies to people who stick around in a bad situation because they're crippled by the fear of the unknown, even if 99 out of a 100 of their possible futures would result in a happier them.  Maybe you're doing this a little, squatting in your present uncomfortable comfort zone because your imagination can't help augmenting any alternative scenario with all these unrealistic nightmarish possibilities?

Or maybe not, I don't know you, but just throwing that out there.

[SirDidymus]

Just download Grindr, there'll be loads on there no matter where you are, though not everyone shows their face at first on their profile for obvious reasons. Or at least there's a bunch of less industrial gay dating apps that aren't more hookup based.

Scruff might be a good choice of app for a rugby-playing bear.  Might provide an ego boost to be in an environment where you tick a lot of boxes.  That said, they can be pretty brutal environments so it's good to go in with your psychological armour on.

"We stopped off in this bar the other night and there was a drag act on, you'd have really enjoyed it," thinking they're being inclusive when I've specifically told them that isn't my scene at all. Or think you will like going to a venue with cheese and ABBA music playing because that's what gays like, innit?

Oh man, that's rubbish!  I was very fortunate that nobody treated me like that at all.  In fairness to them, there's still not much media depiction of gay men being anything other than hi-NRG-dancing rainbow-bedecked queens.  If a straight person doesn't know any other gay men, they may well, with the best intentions, and for lack of any evidence to the contrary, assume that gay orientation comes with all the baggage of that monolithic culture.

For myself, I know that that really troubled me: without any role models of gay men that I could relate to, I really struggled to accept that I was bent.  It was only once I developed enough confidence to realise that I could be myself, and didn't have to turn into a scene queen that felt totally inauthentic to me, that I felt able to come out.  I grew up knowing the truisms that it's fine to be gay and it doesn't define you blah blah blah, but it still came as a further revelation to understand that I could be a, I guess, blokey bender.

but I feel like there's a complete disconnect between these parts of my life if that makes sense?

Makes total sense, and that's something I struggled with.  Being gay needn't define you.  For some gay guys it's a massive part of their identity.  For me it really isn't.  You're at the very first step of a journey.  Who knows, you may find out that suddenly you do become a sparkly spangly fantabulosa sort.  But you may well not, and find out that actually nothing all that dramatic changes except that you can integrate the different parts of your self, your persona, and your life.

Early in my coming-out I was chatting to a guy who said that very soon I would lose all my straight mates and exclusively associate with gays.  Never happened.  I did gain lots of gay mates through rugby, but actually I've lost touch with nearly all of them since I gave rugby up.  I now have a handful of gay mates and the rest are straight.  Of course, I'm a fossilised old domesticated married man, and it's useful to have more of a circle of gay pals when you're single.  But I'm sure apps have changed that situation a lot.

Both actually, League in Summer, Union in Winter. I am very much a League fan, though.

Liking League is your lifestyle choice, and I tolerate it but it doesn't mean I have to approve.  I know you can't help living in the North, but you don't have to act on it.  We don't mind what you do in private so long as you don't ram it down out throats.  Pervert.

Let's not forget, of course, Isreal Falou came to Super League after Australian RU banned him.

Not to mention the nasty shock Gareth Thomas got at Castleford.  (Though it was nothing compared to what he saw when he started visiting football matches.)

On that topic, there's another way you can touch on gay stuff in conversations: that Izzy, what a cunt eh, what's he said now?  Oh I was reading Alfie's autobiography the other day, blah blah blah.  You might get jokey homophobic responses but don't be immediately put off, maybe press it a bit and say, no really, Folau is a prick.

Don't bother reading Nigel Owens' book though, it's unreadable.

Another thought occurred: you could do what Alfie did, pick one team mate, or your skipper/vice captain/coach/manager, anyone whose responsibility includes your welfare and who you get on well with, and ask them for advice.  You might be pleasantly surprised.

I suppose the other little bit of context missing is that I'm currently waiting for an assessment for ASD after a referral late last year,

My god, you're juggling a lot of things emotionally just now.  I know bugger all about ASD, but all I can say is that you would certainly not be the only fairy on the spectrum, if on the spectrum you are.

"someone being gay is, like, hilarious, gay sex especially so. Wouldn't it be awful to be gay? Eurghh!"

All I can think of is Stewart Lee's impersonation of Richard Hammond doing his Salacious Crumb thing.  "Ha ha, gays, imagine being gay, ha ha, imagine eating ice cream and not being a rugged example of manhood like me, ha ha".

I found it very empowering coming out: instead of living in constant terror of having to discuss anything to do with sex or relationships or women, or of being exposed, and for it to be the most terrifying, emasculating thing possible, suddenly I could confidently handle any conversation on the topic.  And locker-room sexualised banter suddenly becomes your playground: you can tell your straight mates that they're not in your league, or that you could fuck them till they cried, or whatever.  If you're not scared any more, you're empowered.

And I accept that I'm hyper aware of this, but its hard to hear and still feel like I'd be welcome, and treated the same as ever. To clarify, I don't think I'd be cast out, pariah-ed, or, worse, attacked. Not exactly. It's just feeling that once I tell people, everything changes. At that point I stop being seen how I am now, and become "there's [my name], he's gay". Like I'd be treated differently than everyone else. Not even necessarily worse, just different.

I totally get it.  But you might well be surprised.  Homophobic jokes are widespread.  Buuuut, they can be a very two-edged sword.  Gareth Thomas talks in his autobiography about his worries about how his teammates would react.  The last thing you'd want is a polite brittle silence on the subject.  The best outcome really is that it's seen as good fodder to take the piss out of you for, something that doesn't really matter a fuck but serves as safe, mutually acceptable ammo for a slagging.

Many on here seem surprised at this even being an issue.

It's easy for well-intentioned liberal straight folk to think "surely that prejudice is long-gone isn't it?"  But it does still exist, and coming out is still a big deal.  And if you inhabit a very masculine world, it can feel like there's an awful lot at stake.

But how can it not be my problem if people I previously considered friends react badly? (I'm not saying they will - but I don't know they won't) Like its the easiest thing in the world to completely change my social group and find new friends overnight?

Very good point.  I guess it's like any other relationship: if it's fundamentally not right for you (because they have a prejudice against what you really are), then it's simply not a good relationship for you to have.  Doesn't mean that ending it, and moving on, is in any way easy, but it still has to be done.

But that's not to say that it will go that way at all.

Sadly, I'm not particularly appealing to men or women it seems, and living where I do, there isn't exactly a large cohort of available sorts to increase my odds

Mate.  You're gay.  If you've been flirting with any women, you will have been holding back on some level.  And you're closeted.  If you've been flirting with any men, you've been carrying the repression and low self-esteem that goes with that.  None of this will make you attractive.  Don't write yourself off.  You have no idea about your persona as a confident, out poof.  Just wait and see.

[Oz Oz Alice]

Surprising considering the circles I move in but I meet far more gay men who are "blokey" than any other sub-type you could imagine. I know two gay couples who run pubs across the street from each other (that's a fucking surreal situation), both of which are composed of typically masculine men. One of my closest friends is a boxer - he also happens to be both black and gay so imagine the fun he had growing up in an unreconstructed Northern town. I'm seconding the dismissal of the notion that once you come out you'll only have gay friends. Tbh the only friends I've lost as a result of my sexuality were gays when I realised I was in fact bisexual who were insistent on my "picking a side". So I did pick a side - the side away from hypocritical bigotry.

Quite often this over compensating "I'm gay but I'm still a real man" pantomime crosses over into bullshit like "straight-acting" which always set off my alarm bells when I was single: sorry, but being as I'm a man fucking me would be the opposite of straight acting - unless you're a woman in which case carry on. It tends to be a cover for a lot of self hatred and while a lot of us suffer from internalised homophobia (in my case internalised biphobia) there's no need to take it out on other people.

To the OP if you've not dipped your toe into these waters yet you should be forewarned of the fact that some of the first people you encounter on Grindr, Scruff, etc. may well be the dictionary definition of toxic masculinity. It almost seems like a certain type of gay man now it's possible to act like straight people with regards to marriage and adoption have decided that the next frontier they need to conquer is that of senseless ill informed bigotry. Don't be put off by that, they're just idiots.

Also what no one tells you is the amount of pleasantly surreal weirdness you'll encounter. I once received a series of pictures of an older man in different vehicles, the one common thread being he had his cock out in all of them. I wish I'd saved the pictures. If you live anywhere near me and he does it to you as well, please drop me a PM. Another guy messaged me simply that he wanted to fuck me in a bath for an hour. Any lazy writers of any sexual persuasion get on Grindr, it's a good source of material.

[Famous Mortimer]

Another guy messaged me simply that he wanted to fuck me in a bath for an hour.

I feel like it would be tricky to get any purchase in such a situation. Also, what are you going to do for the other 57 minutes? Also also, won't the water be mostly cold by the end of the hour? I feel like the gentleman in question didn't work out the important logistics of his request.

[Oz Oz Alice]

I'll be frank: I was intrigued myself but not enough to take him up on his offer. Maybe he had incredible stamina. The size of the bath is another variable to take into consideration. It was flattering all the same.

[SirDidymus]

I feel like it would be tricky to get any purchase in such a situation. Also, what are you going to do for the other 57 minutes? Also also, won't the water be mostly cold by the end of the hour? I feel like the gentleman in question didn't work out the important logistics of his request.

You're assuming of course that he wanted the bath a) filled, and b) with hot water...

A three minute shag though, come on!  I'm no sexual athlete but even at my age I'd like to aim a little higher than that!  What is this, an 80s sitcom?

I know two gay couples who run pubs across the street from each other (that's a fucking surreal situation),

That's a sitcom premise right there!

One of my closest friends is a boxer - he also happens to be both black and gay

I've maybe been very lucky, but just about everyone I've encountered in the worlds of rugby, boxing etc has been very relaxed about homosexuality.  Well, my first boxing coach made lazy casually homophobic jokes about shirtlifters which incensed me (me not being out to him, so he assumed he was playing to a sympathetic audience), but I don't think he particularly meant it, generally unpleasant chap though he was.  He got murdered before I could summon up the balls to challenge him about it though.

Tbh the only friends I've lost as a result of my sexuality were gays when I realised I was in fact bisexual who were insistent on my "picking a side".

That's really obnoxious isn't it?  I suspect it's driven by jealousy caused by, yes, internalised homophobia.  Lots of (if not most) gay men have tried to fancy women, and failed, so they might resent the notion that you're succeeding where they failed as men, so to speak.

It's daft, cos we're primates and some degree of bisexuality is probably the most natural state for us.

bullshit like "straight-acting" which always set off my alarm bells when I was single: sorry, but being as I'm a man fucking me would be the opposite of straight acting

Well, quite!

Before I went along to my rugby club for the first time I knew no gay guys and had no real idea what to expect, but vaguely imagined it might be full of men like me.  It was truly eye-opening.  We were mostly gay cis guys but we had a few trans guys, a few token straight players, the odd genderqueer bod, and a wide mix of masculine/camp, coordinated/klutzy and... well, I won't say tough vs wimpy cos you can't really play rugby and be a wimp, but certainly a wide spectrum of toughness levels.  And there was no correlation whatsoever between where anyone was on these different spectra.  We had a token straight who was a really good player and camper than any of the poofs.  Some of the toughest players were also the biggest queens.  Post-rugby, I have a bosom buddy who's straight as a die, way harder than me, and although not camp, certainly partial to his bubble baths with scented candles, a much better dresser than me, and folk assume he's the gay and I'm straight.  None of these traits relate to each other at all (let alone the sniggering notion that being a top is somehow more manly than being a bottom... most of the tough fuckers I've known have been bottoms).

To the OP if you've not dipped your toe into these waters yet you should be forewarned of the fact that some of the first people you encounter on Grindr, Scruff, etc. may well be the dictionary definition of toxic masculinity.

Sounds like I was lucky for this to all come well after my time.  What kind of thing are you talking about?

Also what no one tells you is the amount of pleasantly surreal weirdness you'll encounter.

Class!  I've not had anything like that, although many years ago (before apps) I was contacted on a hookup website by a guy, now a slightly well-known figure but very obscure back then, who wanted me to trample him in my rugby boots.  He wasn't my type so I politely refused, but I missed the chance for a mildly entertaining anecdote.


(Edited: cos I can't even intarnet properly)

[Famous Mortimer]

I think you just copied my "quote from", there. I was like "I don't remember saying all that!" (and my three minutes bit was a bad joke, I'll admit). 

[SirDidymus]

I think you just copied my "quote from", there. I was like "I don't remember saying all that!" (and my three minutes bit was a bad joke, I'll admit). 

Oops sorry, yes I fucked up majorly there, that probably warrants fixing, I'll get to work!

As for the bad joke, I just wanted to criticise it to imply I am indeed a sexual athlete (by denying that I am one).

(And honestly: hot water is by far the most vanilla option of what he could have wanted the bath filled with)

[Oz Oz Alice]

Sounds like I was lucky for this to all come well after my time.  What kind of thing are you talking about?

Mostly touched on it with the whole "straight acting" thing but I encountered a lot of sexually violent language being used very casually along with casual misogyny etc. I'm perhaps over-sensitive to this being a rape survivor but how quickly men I encountered were prepared to jump into talking about e.g. choking me with their dick was off-putting. You may not have encountered this as much, I'm quite small and androgynous looking, in fact I'm the textbook sub and tend to attract attention from the kind of guys who give BDSM a bad name.

Before I went along to my rugby club for the first time I knew no gay guys and had no real idea what to expect, but vaguely imagined it might be full of men like me.  It was truly eye-opening.  We were mostly gay cis guys but we had a few trans guys, a few token straight players, the odd genderqueer bod, and a wide mix of masculine/camp, coordinated/klutzy and... well, I won't say tough vs wimpy cos you can't really play rugby and be a wimp, but certainly a wide spectrum of toughness levels.  And there was no correlation whatsoever between where anyone was on these different spectra.  We had a token straight who was a really good player and camper than any of the poofs.  Some of the toughest players were also the biggest queens.  Post-rugby, I have a bosom buddy who's straight as a die, way harder than me, and although not camp, certainly partial to his bubble baths with scented candles, a much better dresser than me, and folk assume he's the gay and I'm straight.

This exactly mirrors my experiences in the underground / noise music scene: I mention this as my (continuing) adventures beneath even the bottom rungs of the music industry were where I really started to explore my sexuality. First of all I was surprised by the lack of queers about and the preponderance of geeky hetero conservatives in denial. Then I discovered by rule of thumb that anyone camper and more pretentious than me was likely to be straight. My (straight) best friend and bandmate and me are frequently mistaken for a couple: he is baffled by this, I find it very funny.

That's really obnoxious isn't it?  I suspect it's driven by jealousy caused by, yes, internalised homophobia.  Lots of (if not most) gay men have tried to fancy women, and failed, so they might resent the notion that you're succeeding where they failed as men, so to speak.

I tried to do the opposite: I tried NOT to fancy women as a result of my internalised biphobia and wondered what the hell I was doing whenever I was attracted to a woman. Until I met the woman I'm currently with, which led to me severing a lot of friendships: as a result of remarks made about her, not about me I hasten to add I just find that kind of adolescent pettiness quite funny. My favourite response was from aforementioned best friend who asked "So you're going back in?".

On this topic something you don't miss out coming out at a later age (I say that, I'm 28 and therefore older than the OP) is, presumably, then having to come out again and tell people you're not gay. My dad's response to me having a girlfriend was "I find that quite hard to swallow", while everyone in the room (including her) held back childish laughter.

[canadagoose]

(And honestly: hot water is by far the most vanilla option of what he could have wanted the bath filled with)

I wonder what else it could be filled with that would be "kinky".

- cum
- shit
- Goblin hamburgers in gravy
- hot sauce
- KFC
- bleach
- piss
- iced piss

Sorry, I realise this is no help to the OP.

[Kelvin]

In my experience, there's another aspect that makes coming out difficult, beyond just "Are these people homophobic?", and that's feeling like you've hidden it from your friends, family and workmates for so long that they'll either feel like they don't actually know you, or that you don't trust them, or that you've explicitly lied to cover it up. I've always found coming out much easier when I did it soon after meeting new people - you're less invested in their response, you've got less to lose.

Even at 37, the longer I leave it, the harder it is to tell people. In one of my recent jobs, I denied it when asked early on, because I had heard one person in the office making casually homophobic comments. But this meant that, as I became more and more friendly with people, to the point where I would have been happy for them to know, I had already lied about the issue (using the Monica Lewinski-style loophole that I'm bisexual, not gay), and couldn't see an easy way to bring it up anymore, now that the question had come and gone.

All that said, I've never actually had a bad experience coming out. People have always been fine with it, and you can rarely predict exactly how anyone will react. The people who consider themselves most socially liberal can be the ones who ask the most crass questions, the men who are the biggest womanisers can also be the biggest flirts, the men who are most macho can be the ones who seem to give the least of a shit. The only person whose ever had a negative reaction was my very VERY homophobic mate from uni, who I never came out to, but who found out about a week before we all finished our final year, by finding a folder of hardcore gay porn on my computer. He went berserk and stormed out... but the day before we were all due to leave, he came round to the house, apologised and said he didn't care. It took him a while to actually get used to it, but on occasions when we met up with him after leaving uni, it was clear he was increasingly comfortable with it - which, factoring in his incredibly strict religious upbringing, and how homophobic he had always been, I always sort of respected.                       

[Better Midlands]

Some great posting going on right here 👏

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

In my experience, there's another aspect that makes coming out difficult, beyond just "Are these people homophobic?", and that's feeling like you've hidden it from your friends, family and workmates for so long that they'll either feel like they don't actually know you, or that you don't trust them, or that you've explicitly lied to cover it up.                   

Big vibe this. Have came out to all siblings, but not the 'rents, so i worry about them feeling 'betrayed' or somesuch feelings

[All Surrogate]

Schrodingers Cat, do you know any gay people personally?

No. Which is obviously part of the problem, I don't have any direct contact (for want fo a better word) into the gay world, so it feels so alien to me. Obviously, I know not every gay person goes to gay clubs and so on, and I'm not really a fan of nightclubs at the best of times, but I feel like there's a complete disconnect between these parts of my life if that makes sense?

No, that makes perfect sense. I think if at all possible, try to socialise with some gay people. It's even trickier at the moment than it usually is, but finding a group of people with whom you share something as profound as sexuality is important, I think. There may even be a a gay rugby group nearby. Going along to such groups may not be convenient, but I think it's worthwhile.

[All that follows needs the caveat that I'll be talking in general. Gay people are of course very varied.]

This may sound weird, but you could vew it as a bit of a project, to build up the gay side of yourself. I don't know what experiences you've had, but I'm guessing they've been fairly insubstantial. Sexuality is not theoretical; it is lived. Sexuality is not individual, it is social. This doesn't mean that you need to copy what other gay people are like, or that you have to agree with them, or even that you have to like them (though hopefullly you'll meet plenty of gay people that you do like). It's about being able to comment on a sexy guy that walks past in an offhand way, in the same way that straight men make comments about women. Actualising your sexuality like this, making it real outside yourself, in company that does the same, is empowering. When the time comes, you can use that power to come out to the straight world, so that it isn't a confession, but a proclamation.

Just to make a wider point, surprise has been expressed in this thread that gay people still find it difficult to come out. I'm afraid this is simply naivety. It may come from a nice a place, a kind of wholesome bewilderment, and I really don't want to annoy people, but it is naivety. Gay people are a minority, and expressions of gay sexuality are in a minority, both in depiction and in real life. THIS HAS AN EFFECT. It can't not have an effect, however we might wish differently. In order to assimilate the world, gay people have to put in more effort. There is the almost continual work of translation, either consciously or unconsciously.

As Harvey Fierstein says in The Celluloid Closet:

Which is why when people say to me "your work is not really gay work, it's universal", I say "up yours!", you know, it's gay! And that you can take it and translate it for your own life, it's very nice, but at last I don't have to do the translating, you do.

All this means that the world is just not as easy for gay people as it is for straight, and that even without overt hostility, it is difficult to acknowledge that you're gay, to yourself and to others, to live your strangeness, to come out.