Chart Music Podcast 2 (Man Sound) - ITS PIPOU TIME!

[edon]

"Boing boing boing" indeed.

[DrGreggles]

Worst TOTP episode they've covered?

[edon]

The 90s shows they've done have all been worse than that (especially the most recent 1996 one), but it's still pretty terrible. When

Spoiler alert

Prefab Sprout

[close]

are one of the best things going for it, you know you're in trouble.

[Epic Bisto]

Spoiler alert

"Pump Up The Bitter" by Star Turn On 45 Pints, ffs.

[close]

Jesus wept.  That was one of the low points of humanity.

[Better Midlands]

Jesus wept.  That was one of the low points of humanity.

They were mentioned in this thread last year.

Star Turn on 45 Pints

Live at The Whitley Bay Social Club:

https://youtu.be/iHRB3Hy0Xu0

[Egyptian Feast]

Al got my name wrong! He muckled where he should've mackled, but I've heard worse over here, so I'll let him off. I've been mucklaüted before by a little bearded egg of a lecturer. Sounds messy.

I've only listened up to the telly listing, but great episode so far.

Spoiler alert

I really liked Al's verse after he explained why the episode took so long.

[close]

Good pairing of guests too, I'm surprised they hadn't done one together before.

[edon]

I'm fairly sure they did the August 1995 and April 1991 shows together as well, but they were good on those too in any case. I do think

Spoiler alert

Sarah

[close]

does better with Neil or Taylor though to be honest; with the former things are a bit more upbeat on the whole, and with the latter they do kind of butt heads sometimes, which is interesting to hear - specifically when he wasn't lavishing much praise on Bad, both the album and the song, during the 1987 edition, and she stuck up for it by basically just saying she'd argue with him but doesn't give a fuck.

[buzby]

Only on the first part so far. If it is the real Ricardo Autobahn then it's John Matthews, one half of Peel favourites The Cuban Boys. He's a nice chap - I met him once at an in-store in HMV Manchester where he was accompanying NotBBC's flamingkitties (I think they were an item - she moved up to Preston to live with him, and did vocals on some of his later tracks).

I've already spotted a mistake, though, When Al was reading out the contents of the NME and mention was made of the Blue Monday Sunkist Ad. Sumner did indeed record a vocal track for the ad at the same time as the new vocal take for Blue Monday 88 (which Jones ultimately never used - vocals from the 1988  'Sunkist' session crop up in the BM95 remixes). The advert shown in NewOrderStory wasn't a mockup made for the documentary - it was the treatment rough cut made by the advertising agency to present to Sunkist in 1988, using footage that would go on to be used in the 1989 'Drink In The Sun' campaign (this and this) intercut with clips from Kathryn Bigelow's video for Touched By the Hand Of God from the previous year.

The ad agency account manager for the campaign, Cary Raffle (who is now a personal trainer in New York), =https://www.caryraffle.com/p/blog-page.htmlhas posted about it on his website. His version of the story is that they had signed up both New Order and INXS (who they discovered while out in Australia shooting the footage) but Sunkist's board decided to go with the AOR-sounding jingle they had initially used as a temp track (he also mentions that they could no longer afford to pay the royalties for the use of Good Vibrations from their previous campaign, so that may have been a factor). Like any story relating to New Order, there are numerous versions of the truth.

[edon]

Pretty sure that genuinely is Matthews, have seen him around on Twitter commenting on the TOTP repeats recently so he probably found CMP through there.

[Satchmo Distel]

Was The Best by Tina Turner (1988) really the last hit to feature a prominent sax? Simon thought it was Curtis Stigers (1992), which seems more likely (but was Stigers + sax ever on TOTP?).

[buzby]

Was The Best by Tina Turner (1988) really the last hit to feature a prominent sax? Simon thought it was Curtis Stigers (1992), which seems more likely (but was Stigers + sax ever on TOTP?).

Yes he was
Kenny G and Toni Braxton got to #22 with How Could An Angle Break My Heart in 1997.
also, off the top of my head, the Zutons records featured prominent sax courtesy of Abi Harding

[Egyptian Feast]

Spoiler alert

Star Turn On 45 Pints

[close]

is possibly the worst TOTP performance I've ever witnessed. The worst in recent memory at least. Since last year's repeat I'd forgotten how appalling it was and how dodgy that bit is. I can't wait to hear them get stuck into it. They should have patched Neil and Taylor in to give it a kicking as well.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

I still enjoy hearing Al reading out the Patreons and recognising the odd name; Ballad of Ballard Berkeley popped up in a recent episode and I said "Hello" out loud like a twat.

Hello! We're all twats. I emit a sort of "hooray!" noise whenever I recognise someone from here being bigged up by Al too. It's all rather lovely.

A few months ago, during lockdown, Danny Baker read out a very funny email from Pricey. I was cowering underneath my duvet at the time, and it just made me feel a wee bit better.

[buzby]

Just noticed I fucked up the link to Cary Raffle's blog page:
https://www.caryraffle.com/p/blog-page.html

Hmm, onto part 2 now. I think Simon is stretching saying that Doin up The House and Pump Up The Bitter are Hip Hop parodies - they are are quite clearly parodies of Pump Up The Volume which is House (I wouldn't really class the Coldcut 'Paid in Full' remix as Hip Hop either - Eric B and Rakim certainly didn't).

He's also downplaying Whitehouse and Higson's contribution to the record in an effort to lay into Enfield - Higson & Whitehouse were the members of the trio with the backgrounds in music (in Higson's bands The Higsons and their UEA punk band Right Hand Lovers alongside Dave Cummings). I'm sure that Orbit also had a significant contribution during the recording session over what tracks to pastiche, given he got a writer's credit. The blame needs to be equally shared.

[Better Midlands]

I wouldn't really class the Coldcut 'Paid in Full' remix as Hip Hop either - Eric B and Rakim certainly didn't.

Rakim came round to it eventually and now says it's his favourite remix of their work.

https://www.passionweiss.com/2020/10/07/the-visionary-depth-of-coldcuts-paid-in-full-remix/

[beanheadmcginty]

Always love it when Al introduces a football team in exactly the manner as a band, as he does particularly well in this episode i.e. "Formed in 1892, Liverpool Football Club...etc"

[Crabwalk]

Just noticed I fucked up the link to Cary Raffle's blog page:
https://www.caryraffle.com/p/blog-page.html

Hmm, onto part 2 now. I think Simon is stretching saying that Doin up The House and Pump Up The Bitter are Hip Hop parodies - they are are quite clearly parodies of Pump Up The Volume which is House (I wouldn't really class the Coldcut 'Paid in Full' remix as Hip Hop either - Eric B and Rakim certainly didn't).

He's also downplaying Whitehouse and Higson's contribution to the record in an effort to lay into Enfield - Higson & Whitehouse were the members of the trio with the backgrounds in music (in Higson's bands The Higsons and their UEA punk band Right Hand Lovers alongside Dave Cummings). I'm sure that Orbit also had a significant contribution during the recording session over what tracks to pastiche, given he got a writer's credit. The blame needs to be equally shared.

I've never even thought of 'Doin Up the House' as a pisstake of the genre. Just a slightly cheesy cash-in, which seems entirely apt for the character. There's no way that Orbit (at least) doesn't have massive respect for the music its parodying, is there?

I mean, it's not particularly funny or enjoyable, but I don't think it's the cultural holocaust that Pricey made it out to be.

Starturn on 45 Pints, however...

[Satchmo Distel]

Is it possible to say whether there's a correlation between date and crapness for 80s TOTP episodes - i.e. each year is automatically worse than the preceding one? From the CM ones, I think the 1989 episode was better than this one, and the 1994-95 ones arguably were. It could also be related to month - May will tend to have a football club song and the dregs of the spring releases. Who brings out their best material in May?

Three politically reactionary songs* in one episode might be a record, and clearly was a pushback against black music in favour of Enoch Powell values.

*Not reactionary in intent but in how they were adopted by the white audience. And, as Sarah noted, Enfield et al must have been tone deaf not to anticipate that some buyers would embrace the character and start waving tenners at northerners.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Always love it when Al introduces a football team in exactly the manner as a band, as he does particularly well in this episode i.e. "Formed in 1892, Liverpool Football Club...etc"

That never fails to make me laugh, it's a great running gag. You can hear Sarah chuckling at it too in the latest episode.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

I thought they were a bit harsh on Enfield and Loadsamoney in the most recent episode. The record is shit, but there was no mention of the fact that Enfield, Whitehouse and Higson were so mortified by the success of that character, they killed him off a year later.

Yes, they milked him (urgh) for a bit, but when he became unexpectedly successful on Friday Night Live they introduced the character of Buggerallmoney - a Geordie bloke who was the antithesis of everything Loadsamoney stood for.

Also, Paul Whitehouse was an actual working-class plasterer, he was taking the piss out of the awful people he'd encountered - no mention of that either.

[Egyptian Feast]

Nothing related to the latest episode, but I'm listening to The Jam's Snap!, have just heard 'English Rose' for the first time and, like Taylor's homophobic classmate, I clearly heard Weller sing "For no bums shall ever tempt me from she". OK, I looked it up and it's "bonds", but my ears still aren't having it and I don't want them to. Biggest laugh I've had all week, I'm so glad I put it on now.

[dr beat]

Hmm, onto part 2 now. I think Simon is stretching saying that Doin up The House and Pump Up The Bitter are Hip Hop parodies - they are are quite clearly parodies of Pump Up The Volume which is House (I wouldn't really class the Coldcut 'Paid in Full' remix as Hip Hop either - Eric B and Rakim certainly didn't).

.
Yes surely the existence of that remix goes against Simon's claim that hip-hop and house existed without any crossover during that period.  I'm thinking also about Bomb the Bass as well.

I thought they were a bit harsh on Enfield and Loadsamoney in the most recent episode. The record is shit, but there was no mention of the fact that Enfield, Whitehouse and Higson were so mortified by the success of that character, they killed him off a year later.

Yes, they milked him (urgh) for a bit, but when he became unexpectedly successful on Friday Night Live they introduced the character of Buggerallmoney - a Geordie bloke who was the antithesis of everything Loadsamoney stood for.

Also, Paul Whitehouse was an actual working-class plasterer, he was taking the piss out of the awful people he'd encountered - no mention of that either.

Seconded.  And even if Enfield has said a few questionable things recently, I'd be surprised if the CMP team can't see any value in something like Smashey and Nicey - The End of an Era, which I thought would be right up their street.

[edon]

I've never even thought of 'Doin Up the House' as a pisstake of the genre. Just a slightly cheesy cash-in, which seems entirely apt for the character. There's no way that Orbit (at least) doesn't have massive respect for the music its parodying, is there?

I mean, it's not particularly funny or enjoyable, but I don't think it's the cultural holocaust that Pricey made it out to be.

Starturn on 45 Pints, however...

I dunno - there is the dig at Derek B in there, but then there's also one aimed at SAW soon afterwards, so I don't think it was that much of an intentional pisstake of either house or hip hop, nor did Enfield look down on them. Just a novelty song taking advantage of what were the biggest trends in UK music at that time - imagine if Britpop happened in the late 80s instead and we had a Loadsamoney take on that.

[edon]

Is it possible to say whether there's a correlation between date and crapness for 80s TOTP episodes - i.e. each year is automatically worse than the preceding one? From the CM ones, I think the 1989 episode was better than this one, and the 1994-95 ones arguably were. It could also be related to month - May will tend to have a football club song and the dregs of the spring releases. Who brings out their best material in May?

Having sat through some of the repeats, there has been a detectable decline ever since 1981-82. But 88 and 89 were definite improvements on the nadir that is 1987 for sure. It didn't help matters much that they'd got possibly the worst episode of the year anyway; S'Express were still #1 the week before, and before them it was the Pet Shop Boys, so the top end of the charts were by no means entirely awful at that point.

[dr beat]

.
And even if Enfield has said a few questionable things recently, I'd be surprised if the CMP team can't see any value in something like Smashey and Nicey - The End of an Era, which I thought would be right up their street.

And of course there's a whole bit in that programme where they address the issue...you wouldn't believe...

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

And of course there's a whole bit in that programme where they address the issue...you wouldn't believe...

Indeed. End of an Era is the perfect Chart Music companion piece, but I guess they - Simon, Sarah and possibly Al - haven't seen it. The latest episode did reveal some curious gaps in Simon's pop culture knowledge. He's never seen Monkey or The Wonder Years!

The latter I can sort of understand, as he was a busy music journalist in his twenties when it first went out on Channel 4, but Monkey?! For shame, Simon.

[jamiefairlie]

My heart did sink a bit when I heard it was Price, Bee and 1988. My two least favourite contributors and an awful year.

Price slagging off Enfield & co just felt like modern day sensibilities digging up stuff from the past to be offended by. Enfield was totally one of the alternative comedy crowd at the time and nobody thought 'Loads' was anything but an appalled reaction to the frankly loathsome creatures who took advantage of Thatcher's brave new world and did in fact talk and behave just like that. Price has a bee (ha ha) in his bonnet about 'punching down' but these people were arseholes who's actual punching was mostly delivered to innocent bystanders. Think Begbie and you'll be close.

I can't stand the deification of Prince, so any discussion of him just pisses me off too. He's become like ABBA, a 'classic' artist who is beyond criticism.

Never heard of The Adventures and I know why, godawful shit.

Yeah, so going well so far :-(

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

To be fair, jamie, Simon did say that he thought Alphabet Street by Prince was merely 'okay'. He's a massive Prince fan, but he's not uncritical.

ABBA don't get a completely free ride on Chart Music either. Stubbsy doesn't get them at all, and the rest of the gang - while obviously fans - never idly blow smoke up their pert Swedish arses.

Did Benny have a pert arse? I'm not sure. I've always been too busy looking at Bjorn's.

[non capisco]

I can't stand the deification of Prince, so any discussion of him just pisses me off too. He's become like ABBA, a 'classic' artist who is beyond criticism.

'Beyond criticism'? Price starts off with "Can I shock you....I don't love this" about Alphabet Street and goes on to describe Lovesexy as "the start of his bullshit". (Whilst correctly citing deep cut 'Anna Stesia' as one of the best things Prince ever did, which is stone cold fucking true). If you don't like Prince at all, accchhh, your loss man, he was amazing.

The vitriol directed at Harry Enfield threw me for a bit of a loop. I love a lot of his stuff, 'End Of An Era' and 'Norbert Smith' especially, but Pricey's diatribe didn't even mention two of the dodgiest things in the 'Harry and Paul' series. Parking Pateweo never sat especially well with me and there's that 'Ricky Gervais' sketch which ends with an on-screen appearance by Nigel Farage himself, in on whatever the "joke" was. I don't think Enfield is "despicable" but I've never understood why they let that cunt on to help legitimize himself. I guess for the same reason HIGNFY kept unveiling Boris Johnson as a star attraction. A smug centrist assumption that the war was over.

[edon]

Not too fair to accuse Al and co of worshipping Prince. He didn't get off too lightly in the 1989 episode either, which was fair enough as it was the Batman era, summarised by Pricey as him walking up to a blank canvas and drawing a cock and balls or something like that. When there's criticism to be made of him, he still deals it of course. Obviously you can treat him like a god, and you'd be very well justified in doing that for many reasons, but shortcomings must be remembered, and I think Al and co have acknowledged them well enough.