Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 29, 2024, 12:43:02 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Chart Music Podcast 2 (Man Sound) - ITS PIPOU TIME!

Started by dr beat, August 11, 2020, 09:55:15 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

DrGreggles


Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: DrGreggles on April 10, 2021, 05:05:58 PM
Slating DLT will never get boring.

He's the hairy gift that keeps on giving. As mentioned on the previous page, he's particularly vile in this episode. When he
Spoiler alert
started speaking in a sleazy French accent to those women
[close]
, I automatically shouted "FUCK OFF" at an empty room. Talk about hiding in plain sight, his 'handsiness' was always there for all to see.

DrGreggles

Great line from Taylor about
Spoiler alert
Andy McClusky
[close]
dancing like
Spoiler alert
"he'll lose money if anyone thinks he's cool"
[close]
.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Their evisceration of that nauseating moment where
Spoiler alert
DLT sexually harasses Elkie Brooks (and all her looks)
[close]
is great.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley


non capisco

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on April 10, 2021, 05:37:58 PM
Their evisceration of that nauseating moment where
Spoiler alert
DLT sexually harasses Elkie Brooks (and all her looks)
[close]
is great.

Spoiler alert
Elkie Brooks and all her yeuuuuchhhhs
[close]


bigfatheart

Lovely episode. Always good to hear
Spoiler alert
DLT get the shoeing he so richly deserves
[close]
, and it was funny how surprised
Spoiler alert
Rock Expert David Stubbs sounded when he realised he was the one defending OMD
[close]
. Nice running theme of
Spoiler alert
Taylor defending things that nobody was expecting him to defend (Streisand, Ottawan, Kelly Marie), although it might be one of his bleakest contributions yet. I do hope he's OK.
[close]

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: bigfatheart on April 10, 2021, 07:23:36 PM
Spoiler alert
it might be one of his bleakest contributions yet. I do hope he's OK.
[close]

Spoiler alert
I hope so too, he's a good and incredibly funny person, but he definitely exaggerates his - clearly genuine - misery for comic effect, e.g. "It's a funny old world, I'll be glad to leave it."

It's something most of us do on here, really. Making dark, self-deprecating jokes as a way of coping with the grinding futility and madness of it all. That said, I hope Taylor is aware that his brilliant writing and hilarious contributions to Chart Music have brought a lot of pleasure to people. He's both mint and skill.
[close]

This post looks like a redacted FBI file. Sorry about that.

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on April 10, 2021, 05:37:58 PM
Their evisceration of that nauseating moment where
Spoiler alert
DLT sexually harasses Elkie Brooks (and all her looks)
[close]
is great.

But if they are going down that dark road, why still ignore Saville because he's too dark a topic to touch? If they can adapt their conversation to DLT essentially committing sexual assault on air, they can adapt to the elephant in the room when they do a Saville episode, especially when Parkes and Stubbs are the guests (I can fully understand Sarah not wanting to go there).

bigfatheart

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on April 10, 2021, 07:44:45 PM
Spoiler alert
I hope so too, he's a good and incredibly funny person, but he definitely exaggerates his - clearly genuine - misery for comic effect, e.g. "It's a funny old world, I'll be glad to leave it."

It's something most of us do on here, really. Making dark, self-deprecating jokes as a way of coping with the grinding futility and madness of it all. That said, I hope Taylor is aware that his brilliant writing and hilarious contributions to Chart Music have brought a lot of pleasure to people. He's both mint and skill.
[close]

This post looks like a redacted FBI file. Sorry about that.

Oh, of course, I do so too. It's mostly that some of it -
Spoiler alert
stuff like sitting in his flat reflecting on everything he'd ever done wrong
[close]
- hit a bit close to home, I suppose.

FWIW I love
Spoiler alert
spoilering the fuck out of my Chart Music posts
[close]
, because it
Spoiler alert
lends them an import they wouldn't otherwise have
[close]
.

Quote from: Satchmo Distel on April 10, 2021, 09:09:56 PM
But if they are going down that dark road, why still ignore Saville because he's too dark a topic to touch? If they can adapt their conversation to DLT essentially committing sexual assault on air, they can adapt to the elephant in the room when they do a Saville episode, especially when Parkes and Stubbs are the guests (I can fully understand Sarah not wanting to go there).

I do wonder if this episode was a tentative step in that direction - seeing how well they coped with something that's a bit Savile-lite. I think it is doable, but it's a very fine needle to thread - as people have said, when you're watching a Savile episode you're possibly watching a crime scene. They'd have to absolutely hit the right tone, and Savile does cast a shadow over any episode he hosts. Like I say, it can be done -
Spoiler alert
I thought they did a good job of identifying Travis' 'moves', and when you watch Savile you can see similar techniques that they could discuss
[close]
- but I can understand why it'd be a daunting task for them.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: bigfatheart on April 10, 2021, 09:36:47 PM
Oh, of course, I do so too. It's mostly that some of it -
Spoiler alert
stuff like sitting in his flat reflecting on everything he'd ever done wrong
[close]
- hit a bit close to home, I suppose.

It does hit close to home, I agree. As a washed-up middle-aged journalist myself, I relate to Taylor's grimly amusing tales of living alone with a cat while watching episodes of obscure German '70s pop shows in the regrets-fueled dead of night. He always makes me laugh whenever he describes his miserable life; catharsis, I suppose.

Johnboy

Haven't dived in yet but.. Parkes and Stubbs - just the tonic.

beanheadmcginty

I think Stubbsy has really warmed into his role in the past few appearances. Understands and plays to his strengths.

Epic Bisto

Bloody hell!  DLT at his worst,
Spoiler alert
Ottawan
[close]
and
Spoiler alert
Matthew Waterhouse
[close]
!  We've been spoilt with this episode.

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on April 10, 2021, 10:52:21 PM
It does hit close to home, I agree. As a washed-up middle-aged journalist myself, I relate to Taylor's grimly amusing tales of living alone with a cat while watching episodes of obscure German '70s pop shows in the regrets-fueled dead of night. He always makes me laugh whenever he describes his miserable life; catharsis, I suppose.

But neither you nor Taylor could have known when you chose it that journalism was a career that would be killed by digital media, and the political climate would shift so far rightwards that there would be few financially viable outlets for good writing. We all make mistakes but beating ourselves up for being born in the wrong time and place is pointless. I think fretting over the past is how I try to displace current anxieties but it never works, just creates more ulcers.

Sorry if that sounds like unwanted advice but it's germane to the issues Taylor's contributions throw up, as you point out.


Quote from: Satchmo Distel on April 11, 2021, 10:32:29 AM
But (no Gen X'ers) could have known when (they) chose ......a career that (it) would be killed by digital.

Sadly this is coming home to roost for too many.

Rizla

Quote from: Satchmo Distel on April 10, 2021, 09:09:56 PM
But if they are going down that dark road, why still ignore Saville because he's too dark a topic to touch? If they can adapt their conversation to DLT essentially committing sexual assault on air, they can adapt to the elephant in the room when they do a Saville episode, especially when Parkes and Stubbs are the guests (I can fully understand Sarah not wanting to go there).
This again! Do you honestly not see the difference? Allow me to quote myself here

Quote from: Rizla on August 12, 2020, 06:15:54 PM
...all of the other nonces mentioned faced justice in their lifetimes, whilst he went to the grave having never answered to a single one of his terrible crimes. His many many victims were denied closure. Discussing him might be seen as insensitive to said victims, as well as raking over ashes that have been raked enough. Consign the evil cunt to history's dustbin, I say.

Quote from: Rizla on August 12, 2020, 03:56:17 PM
It's one thing joking around DLT's workplace bullying and handsiness, quite another when it's one of the most evil sick abusive monsters this country has ever produced, a Giles De Rais wannabe nightmare who basically groomed a nation. Far far too traumatic a subject for a funny podcast.

There are no yuks to be mined about this horrific monster. None. A huge number of his victims, and their families, are still dealing with the trauma he inflicted.

Brundle-Fly

It's more than just a 'funny podcast'. I think Savile should be covered in just one episode as I want to hear their take on it. Get the bastard out the way, and move on. They can signpost the episode with a Savile warning if people don't want to listen to hear him being discussed.

Do a special edition on him, not a TOTP episode coat-down but a serious discussion between Al, Taylor and Stubbs.

Rizla

I dunno. What possible new angle is there to be gleaned? It's a question of taste, decency and respect, for the victims, their families, not to mention us, the audience.

Round the time that DLT was done for indecent assault (of a researcher on the Mrs Merton Show), my band were doing an interview thing at a small BBC studio local to where we were playing that night. We were discussing the case (off air) amongst ourselves, and the studio manager, a guy of around Travis's vintage who was clearly as much a built-in feature of the place as the GPO-style patchbays, weighed in to inform us that transgressions such as those of which the hairy cornflake had just been found guilty, were, in their day, very much par for the course and, for women in the workplace, to be expected and put up with. We got the distinct impression that the guy rather missed those halcyon days, before political correctness went mad. To his credit, however, he took pains to point out out that Savile was a horse of a different colour, whose particular indiscretions, whilst an open secret, were deemed "a bit much, even back then".

Brundle-Fly

Quote from: Rizla on April 11, 2021, 06:25:18 PM
I dunno. What possible new angle is there to be gleaned? It's a question of taste, decency and respect, for the victims, their families, not to mention us, the audience.


If they were being glib about his depravity, then yes it would be insensitive but the memory of Top Of The Pops has been tarnished (not just by Savile) and I think this issue should finally be addressed by them. They often show such insight into the culture of the time and I'd be fascinated to hear someone like Tayler Parkes eloquently dismantle that toxicity.

#772
Rizla, your argument is strong and powerful but I can see ways of analyzing Savile without injuring his victims. Make it a Patreon only special and clearly state a content warning. Obviously, don't have the usual features like the eeey-ooop intro and the Top 10. Discuss why nobody sussed out what he was doing, and, if they did, why they didn't come forward. Ask to what extent the culture of the time enabled Savile's crimes. Analyze whether this tarnishes the whole legacy of TOTP rather than just the episodes he hosted. If those questions are never discussed, I do feel that we have an elephant in the room that won't go away and it will seem as though the podcast has bottled it on the most crucial issue in the history of the programme.

Back to this episode: I'm an hour in (I have reached the Burchill singles review) and it's easily been the most enjoyable preamble I can ever remember. Taylor is absolutely magnificent and Stubbs is happy to play second fiddle but still has some great observations. Sadly, however, this is clearly a painful moment for Taylor, as he notes how Burchill et al were raking in tons of cash for taking a contrarian stance (which is like a license to print money for not much work) whereas now they'd be on the dole.

Episode: https://mega.nz/folder/h0snQACa#uiNNqosfbdrfzODHsE1clw/folder/ZgcFgCqJ

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Satchmo Distel on April 11, 2021, 10:32:29 AM
But neither you nor Taylor could have known when you chose it that journalism was a career that would be killed by digital media, and the political climate would shift so far rightwards that there would be few financially viable outlets for good writing. We all make mistakes but beating ourselves up for being born in the wrong time and place is pointless. I think fretting over the past is how I try to displace current anxieties but it never works, just creates more ulcers.

Sorry if that sounds like unwanted advice but it's germane to the issues Taylor's contributions throw up, as you point out.

No, it's fine, you're absolutely right. Getting into music journalism* in the mid-90s seemed like a good idea at the time, and I know I'm very fortunate to still be making some sort of living from it in 2021. And I don't really dwell negatively on the fact that I backed the wrong horse, because for the most part I enjoy what I do and, to be perfectly honest, I'm in no way equipped to do anything else.

Thank you, though, I appreciate that post.

* And, since 2006, TV criticism.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Satchmo Distel on April 11, 2021, 07:05:25 PM
Rizla, your argument is strong and powerful but I can see ways of analyzing Savile without injuring his victims. Make it a Patreon only special and clearly state a content warning. Obviously, don't have the usual features like the eeey-ooop intro and the Top 10. Discuss why nobody sussed out what he was doing, and, if they did, why they didn't come forward. Ask to what extent the culture of the time enabled Savile's crimes. Analyze whether this tarnishes the whole legacy of TOTP rather than just the episodes he hosted. If those questions are never discussed, I do feel that we have an elephant in the room that won't go away and it will seem as though the podcast has bottled it on the most crucial issue in the history of the programme.

I agree with this.

non capisco

I don't see how they can't eventually deal with Savile in some form, a Patreon extra outside of the usual format could well be the way to go. They nearly went there when they discussed the suicide of Claire McAlpine which was sensitively done. But, yeah, you wouldn't want all the usual light hearted 'eyyyy up you pop crazed youngsters' stuff going side by side with a detailed discussion of what that evil cunt did.

The Claire McAlpine episode is difficult but, yes, I think they got that right by separating it from the rest of the content quite neatly. It also helps that Blackburn was quite restrained in his presenting style in that period and doesn't come across even now as pervy in his approach to female audience members (patronizing certainly but in more of a Noel Edmonds way than a DLT gropey one). Blackburn exploited the sexual opportunities his fame gave him but there's no evidence that it wasn't with consenting adults only; he didn't seem to use his actual presenting job for grooming minors.


DrGreggles


Chriddof

I think what Taylor doesn't get about OMD is the whole hauntological creepiness of the band's work from this time. The immense eeriness about "Enola Gay" (and the accompanying video with its endless 16mm clouds and harsh monocolour video overlays) is what drew me to them, and which is fully expressed on Dazzle Ships. (It's further mined by their 21st Century effort, English Electric.) Stuff like the shortwave radio idents and all that, basically, makes them a different proposition to the Human League. Saying that it isn't as slick as Dare misses the point.