DAWS 2 Electronic Boogaloo -Ableton [muso]

[Neomod]

I couldn't find the last recommended a DIGITAL AUDIO WORK -ahem- STATION thread but have just bought a new midi keyboard, the Alesis V49 (lovely stuff) and it comes with Ableton Lite[nb]I know it's limited tracks wise but will buy the big boy if I like it[/nb]. Now i've been using Fruity Loops FL Studio for years and it's quirky to say the least so is Ableton worth investing my time?

Loads of muso's on Fact Magazine's Against the Clock youtube vids seem to use it but have any of you's and do you recommend it?

[Capt.Midnight]

I use ableton 9 and 10.

Pros for me are:

- Very good built in Effects
- Warp Mode is useful
- Project files can be very small, with the audio files stored in a single project directory. Great for saving multiple versions of files without taking up space (this may apply to other DAWs)
- Can drag and drop entire tracks with effects from other projects into current one (also may apply to other DAWs)
- Loop mode is great for recording a live setup.
- Editing and recording automation lanes is fairly hassle free.

That said, I do have more fun using trackers like Renoise. I also can't seem to get a good workflow going in Ableton, I find the GUI a little awkward, but that might be down to my lack of keyboard shortcut knowledge. Beyond this I'm not sure about other software - Haven't used Logic in years, Pro Tools seems to be the main choice for mixing engineers. I hear good things about Reaper. I'd say the full fat Ableton would be a great choice for migration from Fruity Loops. If you buy it, you also get access to lots of free, high quality Instrument and percussion libraries that integrate natively with Ableton. Reason is also very decent, particularly with the 3rd party VST support.

[PlanktonSideburns]

If you want to make electronic music it's the way to go, as it's got loads of great tools for fucking up sounds and simple ways to do looping and sequencing and that

If you just want a more traditional recording for guitar based stuff, or multi track instrument stuff, it's fine at that too, but I would argue software like reaper,or logic and cubase if you want to spend money are more logically set up if you're coming from FL

[Neomod]

Ah, thanks. I think it was because it was bundled with the keyboard that it got me to thinking of a change.

Have had a quick look at the Ableton UI and the sessions/arrangement combo looks a bit confusing. I record different styles/live instruments and like something straightforward (I started with Sequencer One on the Amiga) so maybe I should be thinking of Reaper or Reason?

[earl_sleek]

There's nothing really to stop you solely using the arrangement view in Ableton if you don't like the session view, but the session view is one of the main reasons I moved from Reaper to Ableton. Reaper might be a better bet (as well as a lot cheaper) if you don't need things like clips, warping, the included Ableton plugins, M4L etc.

[Neomod]

I think i'm going to audition both Ableton and Reaper. Ableton because i'm interested in seeing how the session window works in practice for my electronic stuff.

and Reaper because this looks like a cleaner and therefore comforting version of what i'm used to when recording live instruments.



I'm guessing Reaper is so much cheaper than Ableton because it doesn't come with any instruments/samples?

[the]

Have had a quick look at the Ableton UI and the sessions/arrangement combo looks a bit confusing.

You can completely ignore the Session View and do everything in the Arrangement View if you wish (I did for a very long time). It's probably easier to do this to begin with.

It was only later I realised the value/purpose of the Session View is if you want to do live performances or semi-improvisation, triggering sections of music and sequences off the cuff. (Ableton is designed for using in live performance as well as for recording.)

The off-the-cuff stuff triggered in the Session View can stand on its own, but if you simultaneously have an arrangement in the Arrangement View it allows you to deviate from it, live. (Anything you trigger in the Session View for a channel will immediately cut away from what the Arrangement for that channel was doing. You can record your improvisation and incorporate it back into the Arrangement, or you can revert to the original Arrangement at any time.)

[Petey Pate]

I'm guessing Reaper is so much cheaper than Ableton because it doesn't come with any instruments/samples?

The full version of Reaper is to free to use even if you don't purchase a licence, but the licence for personal/non commercial is much less than the full version of any of the other major DAWs to my knowledge. However, you still might have to shell out for some additional VSTs if the in-built ones aren't to your liking, or download scripts from GitHub to add more features.  It's very adaptable which is either a strength or a weakness depending on your view.

Personally I prefer recording audio from external instruments and hardware into Reaper but find arranging and editing in Ableton more intuitive, and its default plugins are superior (particularly the EQ and sampler).

[mrpupkin]

I use Cakewalk which is 100% free now. I like it but haven't really used the others so can't compare tbh. Valuable contribution to the discussion there.

[RenegadeScrew]

I upgraded from FL years ago and Ableton is/was far far superior.  The downside for me is that it can be a bit too flexible.  You can end up with loads of stuff in session view and if you don't get an arrangement made it can be difficult to come back to later.

Ableton wouldn't be my choice if I was recording a band, or even several complete tracks myself.  It can do it but it is fidgety.

[McFlymo]

Used Ableton since 2011 here and I've used pretty much all the other big DAWS (Cubase, Logic, Pro-Tools, Sonar, Cakewalk, Acid, Tracktion) [nb]*- Mackie's DAW that wasn't very popular - it was kinda shit.[/nb]

The popular consensus is that Ableton isn't as good at tracking bands / more traditional recording, but I'm not sure I see where it fails in that area: Especially as version 10 allows "nested group tracks" (groups within groups) and I find setting up fx return channels, grouping, insert fx, automation, all super easy and hassle-free. Whereas I found those things a fiddly, right up to infuriating on other DAWS.

I suppose, they're all much of a muchness and it just depends on which work flow you get used to. I also didn't like Ableton's GUI and scrolling about it, when I started out, but now I love the keyboard shortcuts and have a workflow with Ableton that really just doesn't get in the way of the creative process!

Also agree though, that Ableton often feels like a playground of building fun things and manipulating audio in fun ways, so maybe in that sense it's less like Pro-Tools and the other more "serious" DAWS.

Also, also, regarding VSTs etc... The built in Ableton ones (especially in v10) are fairly lovely, but you can get tonnes of decent free ones these days!

I also very much enjoy Reason for making music too, it's got great synths, fx and routing capabilities, but I don't have anywhere the same ease of workflow with it, so I tend to use it as a slave / sound module to Ableton. (side note: The new Reason allows you to run it INSIDE Ableton, like a plugin, which is pretty tempting!)

[Non Stop Dancer]

I've been using an mpc live for the last year or so, but have finally tired of the limitations and have started using Ableton again, although not sure if that will be instead of or in addition to the mpc. So far I quite like getting the building blocks started up in the mpc then moving it to ableton once I start running into limitations. Have got a copy of native instruments komplete 12 as well so plenty of options sound wise. Anyone running a similar setup and have any tips?

[Cuellar]

I've dabbled with Ableton, but I'm not great with it. Also, it's very expensive isn't it? Prohibitively so.

[hummingofevil]

Hi. If you have listened to my CaB Ha ha Tape contributions I am the last person you need to take advice from as my tracks are pretty awful but I've been making some techno and house in lockdown and along with my drumming and Japanese I am a bit better at this stuff than I was.

Again it is not cheap but I bought Guitar Rig years ago and found that using it as a plug in effects unit can make things immediately sound ace. If dance music is all about the timbre of that bass kick the guitar rig along with the 8eq and kick compressor makes those slightly flabby presets sound pro as fuck.

It might be bleeding obvious but youtube tutorials on the fundamentals of making a dance track are genuinely essential.

[Rich Uncle Skeleton]

Yeah I was so surprised at how much valuable stuff i got from just a handful of YouTube videos when having to make dance stuff I'm not used to making. Very handy for someone still using FL studio fruity loops as I haven't the time or money to finally make the leap to something else like Ableton just yet.

[darth andy]

just a heads up are Ableton currently doing a 90 day free fully functional trial because of the corona virus. It was at 180 days when the whole thing was in full swing, but still, 3 months free fully functioning Ableton is pretty damn good

[Neomod]

Very handy for someone still using FL studio fruity loops as I haven't the time or money to finally make the leap to something else like Ableton just yet.

Looks like Ableton batters my processor and so i'll be sticking with Fruity Loops Studio™ until I buy a new laptop.

And to be honest ... I'm happy with that.

[cue end titles]

[El Unicornio, mang]

I'd recommend Reaper. Have tried most of the others (Cubase, Acid Pro, Pro Tools, etc) and I find it hits the sweet spot for ease of use while having everything you need. Comes with a lot of good effects out of the box too.

[Neomod]

I've now binned off Reaper and got a shiny new version of FL Studio.

I guess .... I guess I just wasn't ready ... to change.

Thanks for all your advice. It wasn't in vain.

[PlanktonSideburns]

FL has definitely all the things you need to rock out

Sometimes the one you can work smoothly with is the best

[Better Midlands]

I'd recommend Reaper. Have tried most of the others (Cubase, Acid Pro, Pro Tools, etc) and I find it hits the sweet spot for ease of use while having everything you need. Comes with a lot of good effects out of the box too.

When the evaluation period of Reaper ends are you required to buy it or can you carry on and you keep getting reminders?

[PlanktonSideburns]

It just does a little countdown timer everytime you fire it up

[PlanktonSideburns]

I love reaper by the way. Nice and efficient, pretty customisable, very stable