Akira

[Non Stop Dancer]

The latest Retronauts podcast is about Akira, FYI. Pretty good.

[Shit Good Nose]

Thing with Akira is 4k is, since it's cel animation, is there really that much extra quality to be gleaned from UHD vs the standard non-DNRed-to-hell Blu-ray?

It's a brand new 4K scan and remaster, so if nothing else it will be a lot more vivid and have that "pop" that HDR is known for (when done well).

Previous blus have also been inferior, I forget exactly why now but I purposely held onto the American Pioneer DVD (which, up until now, was generally considered to be the best release) and didn't bother upgrading to blu.

I'll still keep hold of the Pioneer DVD as it has the original Japanese language production report, whereas every version released since (outside of Japan) has a dreadful English dub.

[QDRPHNC]

It's a brand new 4K scan and remaster, so if nothing else it will be a lot more vivid and have that "pop" that HDR is known for (when done well).

Previous blus have also been inferior, I forget exactly why now but I purposely held onto the American Pioneer DVD (which, up until now, was generally considered to be the best release) and didn't bother upgrading to blu.

I'll still keep hold of the Pioneer DVD as it has the original Japanese language production report, whereas every version released since (outside of Japan) has a dreadful English dub.

I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts on it. The DNR issue is what has kept me from upgrading my BR.

[Shit Good Nose]

I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts on it. The DNR issue is what has kept me from upgrading my BR.

I shall report back.

Full disclosure - my expectations are LOW. 

I've justified the purchase by reminding myself I've never upgraded from the DVD.

[greenman]

A good comparison website...

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=13995&d2=3919&c=1600

Doesn't look like theres really much extra detail to be had reguardless of DNR or not but the edge definition is better than the old release. Again seems rather different to conventional cinema were grain and detail are starting to merge at 4K resolution so removing one damages the other.

With cell animation generally it would be HDR and better colours I'd be interested in with UHD rather than extra resolution and Akira does seem well placed for that, a lot of bright highlights and a lot of red as well.

[Shit Good Nose]

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=13995&d2=3919&c=1600

That's reminded me that one of the other complaints about the UHD is that the colours in several sequences are more muted (stills 8 and 10 being good/bad examples) and some people reckon that the overall colour palette has been altered as well.

[greenman]

That's reminded me that one of the other complaints about the UHD is that the colours in several sequences are more muted (stills 8 and 10 being good/bad examples) and some people reckon that the overall colour palette has been altered as well.

You can't really use those pictures to judge colour and contrast though because their compressing UHD into standard HD, if anything muted colours and lower contrast on such screenshots can be a sign something does exploit those advantages of UHD.

[QDRPHNC]

I watched a UHD/BR comparison video, and I while I know a YouTube video can't capture all the nuance of UHD, strong edges were more defined and in some scenes, it looked as though there was less noise. Not much added in the way of fine detail though, and the 4k seems a wee bit less saturated.

[El Unicornio, mang]

This vid?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_09duWzv3hI&ab_channel=Mymoonization

Quite noticeable colour difference at 6:15, but with movie version colour differences I don't think it's really noticeable until you put them side by side. Even the LOTR ones, which look vastly different in comparison shots, I wouldn't otherwise be watching it and thinking "this looks way too green". This one looks very similar across both versions for the most part. I don't have a 4k screen so can't judge the other elements.

[QDRPHNC]

That's the one. Yeah, minor tint or saturation differences don't bother me so much. From the video it looks like the 4k is definitely sharper, fine detail is very similar to the BR... DNR I didn't really notice, except the shot of the wrecked red car outside the bar in the first looked pretty halo-y in 4k.

[Chedney Honks]

My 4K set arrived today. There are some things that I like, the backgrounds and subtle HDR, but the DNR leads to some posterisation, especially on the characters. It's not awful but it's noticeable to me and I don't like it. The film lacks grain.

Also, the Japanese True HD Multi audio track sounds weirdly distant compared to the English track, and far worse than the Japanese True HD Multi track I have on my standard BD copy. I'll likely keep it because it offers something slightly different and better in certain respects, but it's not an upgrade. It's a sidegrade.

[Chedney Honks]

Hmm...having watched someone more of it and done some A/B comparisons with my standard BD, there are definitely some things I prefer about the 4K release. It fucking pops in a way I thought my other copy did, but it doesn't. Any lights or UI or explosions are that much more vibrant, as are colours overall. Highlights are really beautiful and as I said, the cityscape backgrounds have never looked better.

I wish there were a bit more physicality and grain to the image, to be honest, but I now wonder whether what I perceive as 'posterisation' is rather a quality of the art style, with quite thick outlines and flat facial textures. Having compared the first twenty minutes of footage against the standard BD, I think a lot of the detail scrubbed away with DNR is not actually detail, but just pure grain and dirt. It's the absence of this texture which makes it look a bit flat, at times. It's not softness, though; there's actually more definition to outlines and backgrounds on the UHD release.

[magval]

What are you playing this on, PS5?

[Chedney Honks]

Panasonic UB820
LG C9

I should also say that far from being subtle HDR...the HDR doesn't appear to exist. While HDR pops up as the disc loads, the actual film is SDR.

[greenman]

Hmm...having watched someone more of it and done some A/B comparisons with my standard BD, there are definitely some things I prefer about the 4K release. It fucking pops in a way I thought my other copy did, but it doesn't. Any lights or UI or explosions are that much more vibrant, as are colours overall. Highlights are really beautiful and as I said, the cityscape backgrounds have never looked better.

I wish there were a bit more physicality and grain to the image, to be honest, but I now wonder whether what I perceive as 'posterisation' is rather a quality of the art style, with quite thick outlines and flat facial textures. Having compared the first twenty minutes of footage against the standard BD, I think a lot of the detail scrubbed away with DNR is not actually detail, but just pure grain and dirt. It's the absence of this texture which makes it look a bit flat, at times. It's not softness, though; there's actually more definition to outlines and backgrounds on the UHD release.

To be fair UHD isnt just about brighter highlights and more saturated colours(although thats alot of how its been sold), its the difference between 8 bit on HD and 10 or 12 bit on UHD which allows for finer graduations of colour and contrast. Indeed I would say that's actually the much more significant benefit.

[Chedney Honks]

Yeah, totally appreciate that. Not sure what it's in reference to, to be honest!

[greenman]

Quoted the wrong one of your posts, basically saying that the film was in SDR but a UHD release that stays within the maximum brightness/colour of HD can still look significantly better because it has superior graduation.

[Chedney Honks]

Ah, got ya. That's definitely the case here, yeah.

[greenman]

Giving the opening scenes a quick watch I tend to agree with you Ched that the "posturized" look does feel true to the nature of the film.

Perhaps its just DNR becoming more advanced but compared to the Ghibli's I don't think it has as clear a negative effect on Akira. Maybe due to the difference in art style? Akira'a urban environment tends to mean its detail comes with well defined edges were as Ghibli's natural environmental backgrounds have more of a painted look to them with subtle shifts that DNR and sharpening are more likely to mess with.

I'm no expert but it does look like some of the highlights move beyond starndard dynamic range as well, the reds more intense as well.

[Chedney Honks]

It's interesting, and quite reassuring, that your perspective on it is basically the same as mine. The reds are spectacular. I'm sure you can see why I thought there was some light HDR in places - until I realised that my telly wasn't outputting HDR! It's definitely a lot more vivid than the standard BD.

I do miss a bit of grain, I think the flat textures of anime are more appealing for a little noise, but having done a fair bit of side by side comparison, I think the complaints are excessive. For the most part, I think it's an improvement. I think the first reaction is to notice the change in texture but once you get past that, there's a lot to enjoy.

[greenman]

I do tend to take these indepth analysis forums a bit with a grain of salt, the analysis can be interesting but I find a lot of people posting on them become so obsessed with it that they simply can't enjoy the films anymore and criticism becomes hyperbolic and detached from the viewing experience.

[wasp_f15ting]

This is one of my favourite films, I do have the collectors edition BD was wondering whether to get a 4K version but seems like the uplift probably isn't that great picture wise.
Looks like if I sit on the fence too long it will sell out!

[Chedney Honks]

I'd say it's worth it, to me. Also a very big fan of the film and in some respects, this is the best it's looked. If I were you, I might be tempted to import the Japanese 4K release, though, as it has actual HDR plus the original Japanese 2.0 mix.

[greenman]

I'm pretty sure this is the same release in all territories isnt it? just with different subs and the booklet translated.

It helps the previous bluray wasnt that amazing I spose but honestly its in the class of films I would only have avoided if the UHD release was a real clusterfuck, it tends to be more the marginal stuff were I'll only pickup the UHD if its well reviewed, something like say Karate Kid or Coppola's Dracula I wouldnt wouidnt have bothered with if the UHD's hadnt been done very well.

[Chedney Honks]

Bizarrely enough, no.

The Japanese 4K BD has HDR plus the Japanese 2.0 mix in addition to the rest.

It's quite odd.

[greenman]

Bizarrely enough, no.

The Japanese 4K BD has HDR plus the Japanese 2.0 mix in addition to the rest.

It's quite odd.

Looking at their release info it doesnt say its HDR I spose, people just assumed it was after the previous releases so perhaps their just being cheap and not paying for the HDR aspect licencing it? if they fucked up and used the wrong master then thats massively incompetent.

The differences in colour/brightness relative to previous versions I spose just down to the remaster and being 10 bit? I do have to say even as is I prefer it quite significantly to the previous versions due to that and the much better edge defintion. I never really felt the previous Bluray was as big a shift from the old DVD as you'd expect.

[Chedney Honks]

I heard the Italian edition is supposedly the best BD release but yeah, the difference between the Japanese and UK 4K is really odd. I'll look forward to an explanation!

[Chedney Honks]

Sounds like they just cheaped out on the HDR, for some reason! I'm tempted to pick up the JPN edition and flog this one but overall, I think I do prefer it to my standard BD, on balance.

[greenman]

If I'd have known beforehand I might not have picked it up but honestly having watched it I do really like the look relative to the older BR's, I think you can see why they went with the DNR given how much grain their is in certain shots or parts of certain shots.

[Chedney Honks]

If you email Funimation, they'll send out an HDR replacement disc in Feb:

https://www.funimation.com/blog/2020/12/22/akira-4k-hdr-disc-replacement-how-to-limited-edition/

I've concluded that I definitely prefer the UHD release to the BD so I'm keen to see if HDR adds much more. Probably going to flog the original now.