Topic: Back2Skool2Die

[Blinder Data]

It is utterly incredible isn't it?

Parents drive kids to school -> kids all sit around the same space, cough, sneeze, wipe their hands on stuff -> germs shared around - Parents pick up kids from school ->  take the virus home with them.

So there will be sporadic closures with whole classrooms having to isolate, kids miles behind on their work, parents who can't get to work, and of course teachers blackmailed into allowing all this to happen.

Would you prefer it if kids were taught remotely via Zoom indefinitely? That would damage children's social skills and life chances massively. The poorer kids in chaotic households and/or without good tech equipment would be left behind. And that's not even mentioning how it affects the parents and broader family unit. The makeshift teaching proposals during lockdown cannot become the norm until we find a vaccine.

If Track and Trace is implemented quickly and effectively, reopening schools and closing them when there's an outbreak is the way forward. It'll be the same with offices, pubs, etc. It's how we're going to have to learn to live with COVID. We have to be hyper vigilant but carrying on with lockdown for everyone until a vaccine is found is fanciful.

[JesusAndYourBush]

It is utterly incredible isn't it?

Parents drive kids to school -> kids all sit around the same space, cough, sneeze, wipe their hands on stuff -> germs shared around - Parents pick up kids from school ->  take the virus home with them.

So there will be sporadic closures with whole classrooms having to isolate, kids miles behind on their work, parents who can't get to work, and of course teachers blackmailed into allowing all this to happen.

It's quite daft.  Every year, when the summer holidays end and all the kids go back to school they always catch colds and their parents catch colds shortly after, and everyone their parents know catch the cold shortly after.  Therefore it doesn't take a genius to work out what was going to happen here.

[BlodwynPig]

It's quite daft.  Every year, when the summer holidays end and all the kids go back to school they always catch colds and their parents catch colds shortly after, and everyone their parents know catch the cold shortly after.  Therefore it doesn't take a genius to work out what was going to happen here.

But Blinder thinks that is a worthy sacrifice.

[idunnosomename]

All these paedophiles catching covid from kids now. Terribly sad.

[Dr Rock]

I hope the virus suddenly mutates and becomes more dangerous to children than anyone else.

[BlodwynPig]

I hope the virus suddenly mutates and becomes more dangerous to children than anyone else.

This would certainly have a bigger impact on Covid-etiquette.

[jobotic]

I hope the virus suddenly mutates and becomes more dangerous to children than anyone else.

Hilarious

[Blinder Data]

But Blinder thinks that is a worthy sacrifice.

Nice misrepresentation. What I'm saying is education via Zoom is not a long-term solution. Our society and economy is based on children going to school. It would be horrendous to their development to be kept at home.

Opening schools evidently comes with risks and dangers, but to leave them closed until a vaccine is found (presuming it's not with us this side of Christmas) would be disastrous.

I know most people on here have not reproduced but...

[bgmnts]

Do children only socialise in school then?

How did people socially develop before the advent of the state school system?

[Sebastian Cobb]

School that Boris Johnson visited to show was ‘safe’ closes due to coronavirus days after visit

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/coalville-school-closes-due-to-coronavirus-1-6826041

[Huxleys Babkins]

Do children only socialise in school then?

How did people socially develop before the advent of the state school system?

No, they also socialise at a variety of other venues that are also closed.

[Blinder Data]

Do children only socialise in school then?

School is the principal way that they socialise nowadays. If you can think of a method that children can socialise together en masse that does not come with a similar level of risk as opening schools, answers on a postcard, please. In whatever way they socialise, they would need supervision by adults, so you can't escape the risk of spreading the virus.

How did people socially develop before the advent of the state school system?

We let them run wild without supervision. Fair enough if you want to suggest a return to those days, but our PC-gone-mad culture probably wouldn't allow it.

[bgmnts]

No, they also socialise at a variety of other venues that are also closed.

Really? Can't move for kids round my way at the moment. All chilling outside in groups chatting and riding bikes and playing football etc.

Maybe they should be on a playground in uniforms but seems fine by me.

[Blinder Data]

Really? Can't move for kids round my way at the moment. All chilling outside in groups chatting and riding bikes and playing football etc.

Maybe they should be on a playground in uniforms but seems fine by me.

That doesn't apply for kids aged 0 to whatever age kids start playing outside by themselves these days. Also, winter is coming so kids playing outside won't be so common.

[BlodwynPig]

School is the principal way that they socialise nowadays. If you can think of a method that children can socialise together en masse that does not come with a similar level of risk as opening schools, answers on a postcard, please. In whatever way they socialise, they would need supervision by adults, so you can't escape the risk of spreading the virus.

they have those call of duty games and twitch I heard.

[Sebastian Cobb]

If you can think of a method that children can socialise together en masse that does not come with a similar level of risk as opening schools, answers on a postcard, please.

[olliebean]

If Track and Trace is implemented quickly and effectively

No fucking chance of that with this government, then.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I'd put it to Blinder Data that just because he can't think of practical alternatives doesn't mean there aren't any. Besides, if schools have to close because of self isolating (which they will have to) then it's a moot point isn't it? It's closed either way, just in a messy, most stressful way. Come to terms with it.

Several of the supposedly disastrous implications aren't really disastrous (whether people have kids or not - do better than that) and the 'So what we just keep them at home forever' arguments are disingenuous and beneath replying to.

What happened in March could happen again, even worse, this winter. Schools have opened right as the infections are climbing dramatically. Each one adds to the viral load many times over due to the nature of such a large building with so many in it going back and forth every day, the reinfections will take off and make a further lockdown which closes schools anyway, more likely.

[Blinder Data]

I'd put it to Blinder Data that just because he can't think of practical alternatives doesn't mean there aren't any. Besides, if schools have to close because of self isolating (which they will have to) then it's a moot point isn't it? It's closed either way. Come to terms with it.

I would love to hear about what could replace schools as a universal system of educating kids in these times - it's not my lack of imagination that has prevented it from happening.

In any case, you're the one who is arguing against the opening of schools, so I think it should fall to you to suggest practical alternatives.

Obviously some schools will have to close temporarily due to outbreaks but that doesn't mean ALL schools have to close indefinitely. We're going to have to live with local lockdowns until there's a vaccine.

Several of the supposedly disastrous implications aren't really disastrous (whether people have kids or not - do better than that) and the 'So what we just keep them at home forever' arguments are disingenuous and beneath replying to.

If we continue educating kids in 'lockdown' conditions, they will be seriously disadvantaged compared with previous and subsequent generations. I think that's pretty inarguable. Finnquark in this thread has talked about the struggles his students have had. There's also all the poor kids who depend on schools for things other than education, like food, friends, adults who give them attention/praise, etc. Plus it would help the parents get some work done.

"Disingenuous and beneath replying to"? Really?! You're one of the most argumentative people on here - I can't believe I appear to have shut you up with a simple thought experiment that you appear to be proposing we should implement in real life.

What happened in March could happen again, even worse, this winter. Schools have opened right as the infections are climbing dramatically. Each one adds to the viral load many times over due to the nature of such a large building with so many in it going back and forth every day, the reinfections will take off and make a further lockdown which closes schools anyway, more likely.

As I've said, I'd be pretty happy closing most non-essential businesses if it meant we could open schools and therefore reduce the viral load. Children's education is too important for all schools to remain closed, especially when they do not suffer from the illness that badly.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

In any case, you're the one who is arguing against the opening of schools, so I think it should fall to you to suggest practical alternatives.

It really isn't. I can argue against it from a public health perspective and simply rest my case. What happens next is up to someone else. By contrast, in order to justify going back to school you have to meet the threshold of ensuring long term public health, which cannot be done. It took one day for a series of schools to be affected.

Obviously some schools will have to close temporarily due to outbreaks but that doesn't mean ALL schools have to close indefinitely. We're going to have to live with local lockdowns until there's a vaccine.

I don't think you have grasped how quickly and how thoroughly sending kids to school while also demanding people commute into city centres to work in offices will spread this across the country during the winter months.

There’s no point in sending people back to school or the office if the end game of doing so, which appears to be sending the country into a new lockdown and a 2nd wave, is self defeating.

Once hundreds start dying every day we are back to trying to ensure the health service doesn't collapse.

[Zetetic]

Loads of empty office buildings, and kids love offices.

[MojoJojo]

Do children only socialise in school then?

How did people socially develop before the advent of the state school system?

I think it's worthwhile to note that "learning social skills" =/= "socialising". Kids need to learn more than how to kick a ball around with their mates.

It really isn't. I can argue against it from a public health perspective and simply rest my case. What happens next is up to someone else. By contrast, in order to justify going back to school you have to meet the threshold of ensuring long term public health, which cannot be done. It took one day for a series of schools to be affected.

How many actual new cases of covid has that actually caused though? Individual schools being closed because of covid cases isn't proof that opening schools will cause the covidcopylpse, it's the plan.

I don't think you have grasped how quickly and how thoroughly sending kids to school while also demanding people commute into city centres to work in offices will spread this across the country during the winter months.

And I think you are talking with far more certainty than your actual knowledge deserves. No one knows how big an impact opening the schools will have. The hope is not too much, but no one really knows.

It also can't be overstated that keeping schools closed does serious, permanent damage to children's future social, financial and emotional wellbeing. They're not being opened because someone doesn't get paid while they're closed.

[Bernice]

Also worth noting the huge gap in lockdown education provision between state and private schools. It is overwhelmingly the worse off kids who get hit most severely by schools remaining closed.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

And I think you are talking with far more certainty than your actual knowledge deserves. No one knows how big an impact opening the schools will have. The hope is not too much, but no one really knows.

Pretending that the dynamic of the least responsible, least educated, least hygienic members of society, hundreds of thousands being driven to work, gathering in one place for hours on end, sharing what they have, then returning home to their families to wash, feed and clothe (who will then be heading to work the next day) is so opaque as to be 'unknown' is beneath yours and my intelligence really. We know this helps spreads illness in the winter already because it already does this. Coronavirus is no less infectious.

In fact we do know how it what spread coronavirus, we do know that the death toll is approx 40-50k nationally, we do know it sometimes seriously harms people it doesn't kill. We do know that poor hygiene, lack of discipline and rigour and lack of distancing causes it to spread and we are now putting our future in the hands of how well school children can obey things they are instinctively bad at by virtue of being children.

Yeah, it's 'unknown', in the same way Man City playing Bamber Bridge in the FA cup is unknown, in the sense that if you strip back every piece of information and intuition you can argue we technically don't know the result in advance.

It's coming time to broach the subject everyone was too scared to in March. What level of death from Coronavirus is acceptable to us?

[holyzombiejesus]

The school my wife teaches in had a positive case today, a child that was tested on (and been off since) Monday. The thing I'm really struggling with is that the school sought official guidance and were told not to tell the clasmates' parents. Really feel like contacting the press, can't understand why they would enable parents to take measures to protect vulnerable family members and friends.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

The school my wife teaches in had a positive case today, a child that was tested on (and been off since) Monday. The thing I'm really struggling with is that the school sought official guidance and were told not to tell the clasmates' parents. Really feel like contacting the press, can't understand why they would enable parents to take measures to protect vulnerable family members and friends.

Indefensible from the school. Contact someone you trust to report this to the press on your behalf so your wife doesnt get in trouble. I assume this will come out in due course anyway but only if people like yourself act in good conscience.

[finnquark]

I'm just glad everyone had great craic over the summer, really. Eat out to help out. Travel bridges. Running the economy hot. 6-800 cases a day was grand.

[holyzombiejesus]

Indefensible from the school. Contact someone you trust to report this to the press on your behalf so your wife doesnt get in trouble. I assume this will come out in due course anyway but only if people like yourself act in good conscience.

Yeah, I was thinking I'd do that. Will wait until tomorrow to see if their advice is corrected or my wife has been informed incorrectly.

[chrissiebrmc]

Yeah, I was thinking I'd do that. Will wait until tomorrow to see if their advice is corrected or my wife has been informed incorrectly.

My headteacher has said this too. He's also told us that there's no obligation for staff to be told either.
I wish you would let the press know. Teachers appear to  be extremely expendable right now.

[holyzombiejesus]

I will if it is the actual decision that school have made. My wife was told about it just as she was leaving today, so don't want to be rash. Who would you report it to? Local paper or national? Bit wary about it as she's only been in the job for a few days and I imagine the suspicion would mainly be with the newer staff. But if this is the decision, it's fucking unforgivable and something has to be raised. We were due to see my parents this weekend and my mum is so cautious and anxious as she has respiratory issues and believes that if she got it then she would die. How can they purposely hide something like this?