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March 28, 2024, 11:10:40 PM

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The Batman (2021)

Started by VelourSpirit, August 23, 2020, 04:29:16 AM

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Custard

I was watching a YouTube video of Nolan discussing the inspiration behind Ledger's Joker and the performance he gave, and it made the hairs on the back of my neck pop up. He gave Ledger a huge amount of credit for it, and said all the best stuff came from him. Very gracious and lovely to hear

Though he did say that that Joker looks like he would stink, and that you can almost smell his breath through the screen, which is absolutely true. Theres no way that lad ever washed, as the character wouldn't even think about doing so. I love that the makeup is thrown on slapdash, and is slowly eroding off his face. It says so much about the character

Whereas Leto's version probably smelt of fresh plums

Mister Six

This bit in Suicide Squad says it all:



So the Joker spent an hour meticulously laying out all those daggers and guns so he could have a good old writhe and a chuckle while looking cool from above for an audience that doesn't exist.

Either no attention is being paid to any kind of psychological plausibility, or Leto's Joker is the kind of poser who'd do that kind of thing.

Then again, he has "DAMAGED" tattooed on his head.

SHITE.

SavageHedgehog

I do like that he laid out baby clothes(?) though

magval

It's just occured to me that shot is the filmic equivalent of a cover image - some thematic artwork that reflects the contents of the issue but doesn't appear in any of the panels contained within.

This doesn't work on film but nothing in that film works.

colacentral

Quote from: Mister Six on August 31, 2020, 11:21:39 PM
It pretty much is, though. At least the one that has been prominent in the comics for decades. The Joker doesn't tell jokes that other people find funny, he mostly amuses himself in incredibly twisted and horrible ways. There's a sense of humour, but nothing you'd actually laugh at.

And I know the following is an appeal to authority, but fuck it: I did an interview with Grant Morrison around the time that this came out, when he was writing the main Batman comic (he'd been to the premiere just before; the film wasn't on general release yet) and he was raving about how this was the first time he'd seen The Joker done properly on film. And as he's the bloke who wrote Arkham Asylum and one of the best ever Batman runs, I'm inclined to trust his judgement.

The problem is that I find the moments mentioned by Kelvin and others above to be, for lack of a better word, poor. The TV line, the thing about having a woozy head - I hate all that, and actually even when I first watched it and loved the film overall I found those lines weak.

In fairness, the problem with those things is not so much how Jokery they are, but just a matter of, are they any good? And I think Goyer / Nolan are terrible with dialogue and humour in general. Just as a non-Joker example: a line I've always hated is "he's the kind of sick mind the Joker attracts." I can't put my finger on why it makes my skin crawl - it's like it's sort of a comic book style line, but trying too hard to be; or it just doesn't sound natural in context. "I'm not wearing hockey pants" is another one; or most of Rachel's dialogue.

So with the Joker, it's not about him being "funny," as in laugh out loud. As I said, I view him as a grotesque bugs bunny, a cartoon with real violence as the punch line. But how much do you get that? There's the pencil thing but what about that is really cartoony? Again, that pencil moment seems so half baked - he's saying it's a magic trick, and he'll make it disappear, and technically he does because he stabs it in the guy's head. But there's nothing really clever about that moment which makes it something unique to the joker; it's so lazy and tossed off, like the woozy head line, like the tv line. Not to bring up that ending in the office building again, but it does visually represent the laziness in the writing to me. You get to use the joker and that's what you come up with for the grand finale.

The bus moment works for me because it is so surprising. It does work as a real joke with a punchline, it's structured well, you don't see it coming because you know nothing about a bus until that point, and it's not a cheat because it makes sense in context. There is something almost supernatural about the timing of the Joker saying "no, I kill the bus driver," and the bus coming through the wall. I like that because it is so cartoony, but still real enough to be plausible and be something that could actually happen. It reinforces the idea of the joker being a "super" villain, or a force of nature as I think nolan described him, without undermining the reality of the film. That is clever in a way that stabbing a pencil into someone and saying it's a magic trick isn't.

Re: Grant Morrison. Again I think you have to remember the hype at the time, the fact it had been 11 years since Batman & Robin,  almost 20 since Jack Nicholson, and the level of excitement to see a non-silly Batman film with a scary Joker was through the roof. And in fairness the only other film Joker that counted at that time was Jack Nicholson, as Romero's Joker is a portrayal of the character from a much different era. So to say it's the closest film version of the character, to that point - I don't necessarily disagree. Again to use the Bugs Bunny analogy - I can look at Space Jam and intellectually know that's supposed to Bugs Bunny there, but it isn't really.

It's subjective though. The film ideal for me would probably be somewhere between Phoenix and Nicholson.

It looks to me like Reeves' style in this new film is going to be as grounded as the Nolan films without straying too far from the absurdity of the source material. Ideally for me it would be closer to the animated series than any previous film versions. If he does that than I think his joker would be much more in line with how I want to see him done.

Dr Rock

The name Joker could have two meanings - one who tells jokes, a comedian. And that should always be a part of who the Joker is, even if his jokes, as mentioned above, just amuse himself. But, especially since he went all dark and gritty, he's just as much an embodiment of the Joker in a deck of cards. Which has a few meanings (which mirrors the Batman antagonist, with unclear 'multiple choice' origins) - a 'wild card' - or is used to inflict a bad result on another player, something you don't want played against you, a card to be feared. An agent of chaos even. It is the anarchic trickster card in the deck. And not one that is expected to peddle knock knock jokes.

Blumf

Quote from: Mister Six on September 01, 2020, 03:50:55 AM
So the Joker spent an hour meticulously laying out all those daggers and guns so he could have a good old writhe and a chuckle while looking cool from above for an audience that doesn't exist.

Either no attention is being paid to any kind of psychological plausibility, or Leto's Joker is the kind of poser who'd do that kind of thing.

Then again, he has "DAMAGED" tattooed on his head.

'Cause I'm all mess'd up, y'know

#157
For all the talk about light/dark Batman, it strikes me that (as per) DC & WB missed a trick; you include a lighter, sillier Batman in the 'Justice League' universe - replete with OTT colourful villains - and you offer those of us who enjoy the darker interpretations separate films (or film universe).  Make it 15 / R to ward away the kiddies.

Instead, they handed their DC cinematic universe to a fucking Objectivist bellend, who somehow gets to make comic book adaptations despite having no feel whatsoever for the source material.  This wouldn't be a problem if he made something original, but it's usually surface-level representations of famous works (and it was no surprise he didn't understand Watchmen, given that Rorschach is a parody of the sort of Randian bullshit he believes in). 

samadriel


Custard

Looks like production has halted again, as apparently Battinson has the coronas

https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/the-batman-robert-pattinson-covid

PlanktonSideburns

They should film a scene where he shits on some fruit in a market

Mister Six


Famous Mortimer

Quote from: Shameless Custard on September 01, 2020, 12:57:40 AM
Absolutely. Ledger nailed it beautifully.  A mesmerising performance
Agreed. With the amount of hate it's getting in this thread, you'd be hard pressed to believe anyone ever liked "The Dark Knight".

Glebe

Joker doesn't appear to be in this but seeing as how this is the current Batman thread I'll stick this here:

Joker | The Joker: Put on a Happy Face | Warner Bros. Entertainment.


Replies From View

Quote from: Mister Six on September 01, 2020, 03:50:55 AM
This bit in Suicide Squad says it all:



So the Joker spent an hour meticulously laying out all those daggers and guns so he could have a good old writhe and a chuckle while looking cool from above for an audience that doesn't exist.

Either no attention is being paid to any kind of psychological plausibility, or Leto's Joker is the kind of poser who'd do that kind of thing.

Then again, he has "DAMAGED" tattooed on his head.

SHITE.

Does it exist in the same cinematic universe as Knives Out?


Glebe

ROBERT PATTINSON FAKES CORONAVIRUS; THE BATMAN IN TROUBLE.

Possibly just scuttlebutt, I think I did read something where Pattison said he hasn't been bothering to work out though. Hmmm.

C_Larence

Quote from: Glebe on October 11, 2020, 01:05:17 AM
ROBERT PATTINSON FAKES CORONAVIRUS; THE BATMAN IN TROUBLE.

Possibly just scuttlebutt, I think I did read something where Pattison said he hasn't been bothering to work out though. Hmmm.

QuoteDoomcock of the Overlord DVD YouTube channel was the first to claim that The Batman movie is in "deep trouble,"

Ah well if Doomcock says it!

Glebe

Quote from: C_Larence on October 11, 2020, 01:18:50 AMAh well if Doomcock says it!

Heh, I know... but apparently Doomcock or whatever heard from and insider. But yeah, quite possibly scuttlebutt.

VelourSpirit

Quote from: Glebe on October 11, 2020, 01:05:17 AM
ROBERT PATTINSON FAKES CORONAVIRUS; THE BATMAN IN TROUBLE.

Possibly just scuttlebutt, I think I did read something where Pattison said he hasn't been bothering to work out though. Hmmm.
ridiculous bullshit lol, it's just fans outraged because they didn't understand pattinson's sense of humour

Mister Six

Yeah this comes across more as shit-talking about a star that nerds hate and a film that nerds also hate by extension.

beanheadmcginty

Never seen any Twighlight, but I fucking loved The Lighthouse and that Patterson lad was great in it. He could really loom over stuff. Based purely on that I reckon he'll be alright as Batman.

C_Larence

Quote from: beanheadmcginty on October 11, 2020, 09:31:11 PM
Never seen any Twighlight, but I fucking loved The Lighthouse and that Patterson lad was great in it. He could really loom over stuff. Based purely on that I reckon he'll be alright as Batman.

He's excellent in Good Time too, worth a watch on Netflix.

beanheadmcginty

Oh yeah, I have seen that too. Really good. He was great in that. What's everyone's problem? He's clearly got some talent.

C_Larence

Quote from: beanheadmcginty on October 11, 2020, 11:06:13 PM
Oh yeah, I have seen that too. Really good. He was great in that. What's everyone's problem? He's clearly got some talent.

He was in Twilight which, in the late 2000s/early 2010s was a crime on par with being Justin Bieber, but since then has developed into a really remarkable actor who makes interesting movies. The problem is that the people who are genuinely mad about him being Batman aren't exactly movie buffs, they're only interested in the big budget superhero blockbusters, so have no idea that he's actually done anything since playing a sparkly vampire a decade ago.

SavageHedgehog

I would say the ratio of "actually Patterson is a great actor" comments to "Patterson sux" has been about 10:1. It feels like a bit of a manufactured controversy to me.

Only recentish thing I've seen him in is Life. He was fine.

VelourSpirit

Quote from: SavageHedgehog on October 12, 2020, 08:19:03 AM
I would say the ratio of "actually Patterson is a great actor" comments to "Patterson sux" has been about 10:1. It feels like a bit of a manufactured controversy to me.

Only recentish thing I've seen him in is Life. He was fine.
Yeah the "everyone thinks he's bad but he's actually been really good in some indie films over the past few years he's a real dark horse" comments are just tiresome now, yes everyone knows he's good except a few fringe nerds upset that he said he wasn't going to get all muscly for them as a joke
there's been some new filming pictures out today anyway
https://twitter.com/bestpattinson/status/1315603924179714048 god he's gorgeous

thugler

I don't think it's a manufactured controversy. Lots of people haven't seen or even heard of all the indie stuff he's done and he's not been a household name since he was in the vampire stuff.  I would agree there are a lot of people pointing out how good he's been in the indie stuff as well.

Mister Six

Yeah, if you go on general nerd sites or Facebook groups, they're still full of people going, "Haha why did they hire the Twilight guy? He sucks!" And when he said he wasn't working out for the role there was a massive backlash from nerds angry that he wasn't taking the job seriously, too.

SteveDave

There are photos from Liverpool (where some funeral scenes are being shot) and RPattz has got the emo-Peter Parker from Spiderman 3's hair. Also, I don't know why they've case the Irish pretend thug if they're going to hide him behind a load of make up to make him look like a knackered old man. Just hire a knackered old man. There are loads of them!