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Impossible fights and things in games that fucking ruin everything.

Started by Glebe, September 03, 2020, 02:42:24 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Sin Agog

Seem to recall there being one bastard of a race in Jak II that gobbled up two whole days from my late teens when I should've been out fuckn and suckn. Same for one or two Jet Set Radio levels, but that was more to do with the treacly controls.

bgmnts

Lost Odyssey's first boss fight is an absolute cunt and made me ragequit a few times.

Glebe

RE: Arkham Origins: Blackgate, I've managed to figure out the tricky timing in the end battle with Catwoman, and have since beaten her twice, having manically thundered through a 'New Game Plus'. Hurrah!

NoSleep

Ico's a brilliant game but this one point had me completely baffled. Just like the guy in the Let's Play linked below, I had tried what he is doing and decided that there must be something else that I had missed as that didn't seem to produce a result. So I looked everywhere else and still couldn't get past this point until, finally, I gave up and tried to find a solution (pre-internet; I luckily found I had a magazine that had a walkthrough) and discovered that I had been doing the right thing after all; it's just difficult to get the timing exactly right. A bit of a flaw in an otherwise perfect game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKp15_pMkLU&feature=youtu.be&list=PL4E456E7B4FC3F712&t=1030

Cerys

I don't remember that bit, which suggests that I was a jammy git who got past it without too much hassle.  Something I bet I wouldn't manage if I went for another playthrough.

mobias

I hate games that having a progressive scaling difficulty system that you don't have any control over. During the early days of lockdown I got quite into playing Just Cause 4 on PC. The console version was a total turd but the PC version looked and performed way better. Anyway, I got into it enough to start wasting a lot of lockdown hours mucking about in it. I got to about the halfway point in the main story and all the progression bottlenecked to this one mission I just could not for the life of me do. The problem was I was into the game enough to want to play it but not into it enough to want to waste many more hours trying the complete this mission.

At least with other games that have an adjustable difficulty system you can just dial things down a bit if you're having a problem. With JC4 there was no option so in the bin it went. It was fun enough whilst it lasted though.

beanheadmcginty

The battle against Deanna Troi on that Arctic planet halfway through the first Mass Effect is by far the most difficult battle in any of the Mass Effect games. By a huge margin.

Cold Meat Platter

Quote from: beanheadmcginty on September 06, 2020, 04:31:37 PM
The battle against Deanna Troi on that Arctic planet halfway through the first Mass Effect is by far the most difficult battle in any of the Mass Effect games. By a huge margin.

Especially as on the xbox 360 version the framerate shits the bed completely, if it's the one I think it is.

earl_sleek

Yeah, I've been replaying the ME trilogy recently and that is a hard fight. I'm quite near the end of ME3 now and have only just come across any battles that are approaching it in difficulty; I struggled with the final Omega combat until I realised it's a lot easier to take out the generators as quick as possible rather than fight the bad guys, and the last Kai Leng fight took a few goes as well. But they're an expansion and a late game battle, respectively - I think Marina Sirtis is relatively early in ME1.

bgmnts

Quote from: beanheadmcginty on September 06, 2020, 04:31:37 PM
The battle against Deanna Troi on that Arctic planet halfway through the first Mass Effect is by far the most difficult battle in any of the Mass Effect games. By a huge margin.

Mostly because the actual combat mechanics are sort of dogshit in terms of execution.

But god yeah, going through an insanity run in the Mass Effect trilogy always made me do the Noveria mission first as its the hardest part ever.

Also from Bioware, Flemeth in Dragon Age.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: NoSleep on September 06, 2020, 01:41:16 PM
Ico's a brilliant game but this one point had me completely baffled. Just like the guy in the Let's Play linked below, I had tried what he is doing and decided that there must be something else that I had missed as that didn't seem to produce a result. So I looked everywhere else and still couldn't get past this point until, finally, I gave up and tried to find a solution (pre-internet; I luckily found I had a magazine that had a walkthrough) and discovered that I had been doing the right thing after all; it's just difficult to get the timing exactly right. A bit of a flaw in an otherwise perfect game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKp15_pMkLU&feature=youtu.be&list=PL4E456E7B4FC3F712&t=1030
I knew exactly which bit this would be before I clicked the link. It was the same for me when I played it.

Marner and Me

Elite 4 in Pokemon Red, then once you've seen them off you get to face that cunt Gary whos pokemon are fresh and yours are scudded.

MojoJojo

Quote from: beanheadmcginty on September 06, 2020, 04:31:37 PM
The battle against Deanna Troi on that Arctic planet halfway through the first Mass Effect is by far the most difficult battle in any of the Mass Effect games. By a huge margin.

It's also weird in that Liara is Troy's (Matriarch Benezia) daughter, but depending on the order you do the missions Liara won't necessary be in your party when you fight her. Which means there is loads of Marina Sirtis dialogue that lots of players never heard.

I seem to remember the fight wasn't too bad, as it was fairly easy to get her bodyguards stuck on the geometry in the level.

Bazooka

Quote from: Marner and Me on September 06, 2020, 10:01:48 PM
Elite 4 in Pokemon Red, then once you've seen them off you get to face that cunt Gary whos pokemon are fresh and yours are scudded.

Solo the E4 with Nidoqueen and spam horn drill.

Ferris

Quote from: Marner and Me on September 06, 2020, 10:01:48 PM
Elite 4 in Pokemon Red, then once you've seen them off you get to face that cunt Gary whos pokemon are fresh and yours are scudded.

And he pulls the type advantage against your starter like a complete twat.

Bloke's an arsehole.

Clownbaby

Got to the bit in Silent Hill 2 where you have to kill the 3 caged lads who dangle from the ceiling and choke you with their feet and I have just short of the ammo I need so naturally because this is a survival horror game from 2001 I have to just start the whole game again because I stupidly thought that stacks and stacks of game saves would be annoying and just rewrote every save and now can't backtrack to a time before I'd squandered my ammo like an absolute cunt. I always forget that the manual saving and loading in older survival horror games is a strategic puzzle in itself.

That being said I don't think it's very good game design to expect the player to just know first time playing when they will need to be prepared and when they don't, and create an endless loop of restarting the save, having the game give you deliberately just-short-of-enough ammo just before you go into the boss fight and so the game just collapses into a dead end then and there.

I know to a lot of people ''that's just what survival horror is'', but there's a bit of a difference between punishing for poor weapon management - "you're getting just about enough to get by but you should have prepared so you better be careful" - and killing any and all play investment dead by going ''nope start again mate soz hahaha''

Unless you actually can just hit them with your plank? I dunno. r/Silent Hill didn't have a conclusive answer. Doesn't look like it

bgmnts

Yeah no I'm in agreement that that is shit. There should always be a workaround, even if its being able to hit something with your base side weapon (e.g Resi Evil knife).

Poobum

Yiazmat in FF12, mainly because it's so long and tedious. 4 hour boss fight (at least) could fuck off, but I wanted the achievement. Omega mk XII was far more difficult, but fun and short. So many bosses from FF just relied on you being willing to get through the boredom, Tonberry King from FF8 for example.

The bosses from Shovel Knight, but then I'm incredibly shit at it, despite loving it.

Jinpachi from whatever Tekken he was from. Tough bosses I'm fine with, but that was an absolute cheat. Unknown from Tag 2 was similar, but felt more my fault when she fucked me up.

The last missions from Command and Conquer 3. Have never completed the GDI campaign.

The Nurburgring ring time trial from Gran Turismo 4, got within seconds of the gold. 7:09.07. Etched in my brain. Forza's rewind will always be ambrosia. My addled brain has earned it playing through the Gran Turismo licenses.

Wish I had the absolute obsession to achieve something like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZUPH3xHn6k

Capt.Midnight

The boss fights in Bloodborne. I enjoyed the levels themselves, particularly unlocking the shortcuts and memorising the enemy attacks and surprises. But then, having to sprint all the way through a stage to reach some of the bosses, which gets tiring after the 30th attempt at NG+ Shadows of Yharnam.

Bazooka

Quote from: Capt.Midnight on September 07, 2020, 11:44:41 PM
The boss fights in Bloodborne. I enjoyed the levels themselves, particularly unlocking the shortcuts and memorising the enemy attacks and surprises. But then, having to sprint all the way through a stage to reach some of the bosses, which gets tiring after the 30th attempt at NG+ Shadows of Yharnam.

You see I'm the opposite I hated the layout and labyrinth levels more than the bosses.

Bazooka

Quote from: Clownbaby on September 07, 2020, 09:56:09 PM
Got to the bit in Silent Hill 2 where you have to kill the 3 caged lads who dangle from the ceiling and choke you with their feet and I have just short of the ammo I need so naturally because this is a survival horror game from 2001 I have to just start the whole game again because I stupidly thought that stacks and stacks of game saves would be annoying and just rewrote every save and now can't backtrack to a time before I'd squandered my ammo like an absolute cunt. I always forget that the manual saving and loading in older survival horror games is a strategic puzzle in itself.

That being said I don't think it's very good game design to expect the player to just know first time playing when they will need to be prepared and when they don't, and create an endless loop of restarting the save, having the game give you deliberately just-short-of-enough ammo just before you go into the boss fight and so the game just collapses into a dead end then and there.

I know to a lot of people ''that's just what survival horror is'', but there's a bit of a difference between punishing for poor weapon management - "you're getting just about enough to get by but you should have prepared so you better be careful" - and killing any and all play investment dead by going ''nope start again mate soz hahaha''

Unless you actually can just hit them with your plank? I dunno. r/Silent Hill didn't have a conclusive answer. Doesn't look like it

Did you pick up the rifle?

Clownbaby

Quote from: Bazooka on September 08, 2020, 01:43:12 AM
Did you pick up the rifle?

Nah, just got a handgun and a shotgun. Just looked it up and the rifle isn't available til you're at Toluca Prison anyway, I'm only at the Hospital. Didn't know I needed to pick up the pipe though AS WELL so my only melee weapon is the fucking plank and all

Capt.Midnight

Quote from: Bazooka on September 08, 2020, 01:42:17 AM
You see I'm the opposite I hated the layout and labyrinth levels more than the bosses.

The boss fights do seem to be the main appeal, so I think I'm in the minority here.

Bazooka

Quote from: Clownbaby on September 08, 2020, 08:42:16 AM
Nah, just got a handgun and a shotgun. Just looked it up and the rifle isn't available til you're at Toluca Prison anyway, I'm only at the Hospital. Didn't know I needed to pick up the pipe though AS WELL so my only melee weapon is the fucking plank and all

As Yes, I was thinking of another boss, yes you won't have the rifle. The shotgun is the go to for the three hanging gits, I don't think they are low enough for melee range, of you can try to use melee on the nurses etc to conserve ammo, and yes the pipe does more damage, it's inside a car.

Phil_A

Quote from: Clownbaby on September 07, 2020, 09:56:09 PM
Got to the bit in Silent Hill 2 where you have to kill the 3 caged lads who dangle from the ceiling and choke you with their feet and I have just short of the ammo I need so naturally because this is a survival horror game from 2001 I have to just start the whole game again because I stupidly thought that stacks and stacks of game saves would be annoying and just rewrote every save and now can't backtrack to a time before I'd squandered my ammo like an absolute cunt. I always forget that the manual saving and loading in older survival horror games is a strategic puzzle in itself.

That being said I don't think it's very good game design to expect the player to just know first time playing when they will need to be prepared and when they don't, and create an endless loop of restarting the save, having the game give you deliberately just-short-of-enough ammo just before you go into the boss fight and so the game just collapses into a dead end then and there.

I know to a lot of people ''that's just what survival horror is'', but there's a bit of a difference between punishing for poor weapon management - "you're getting just about enough to get by but you should have prepared so you better be careful" - and killing any and all play investment dead by going ''nope start again mate soz hahaha''

Unless you actually can just hit them with your plank? I dunno. r/Silent Hill didn't have a conclusive answer. Doesn't look like it

It's kind of an unwritten rule in SH games that you always save shotgun ammo for bosses. Those hanging cunts go down in about five shots each if you're playing on Easy.

The one thing I hate about that fight though is if you accidentally trigger the cutscene that leads up to it, you then can't go back and check the rest of the floor to see if you've missed anything. I do that every single time and it always annoys me.

One thing I've noticed with Silent Hill games is the difficult really ramps on hard mode, often in completely unexpected ways. Enemies don't just take more damage, but behave differently as well.

The giant worm in the school basement in SH1 is a prime example, on Easy it you can just blast it a couple of times from a distance and it's all over, but on Hard you have to get a shot in precisely as it's jaws are opening which you have to stand directly in front of it to do while also while stepping backwards and if you mis-time it by a fraction of a second the fucker one-hit kills you. I reckon it must've taken in the region of fifty attempts for me to get it.

Clownbaby

Quote from: Phil_A on September 08, 2020, 01:19:28 PM
The one thing I hate about that fight though is if you accidentally trigger the cutscene that leads up to it, you then can't go back and check the rest of the floor to see if you've missed anything. I do that every single time and it always annoys me.

I bet the cutscene wouldn't be so easy to accidentally trigger if the camera angles didn't jump about. I'm probably sounding like an uncultured cunt but the Silent Hill 2 camera angles, as lovely as they can look, are another irritating gameplay burden that makes just generally any practical navigation into disoriented juddering about and accidentally going round in circles and obsessively checking the map

peanutbutter

FF7:
Demon's Gate in on first play through, not because it was especially hard but it was definitely a bit of a difficulty spike in a location where I had very little area to grind (so boring as fuck to do). Had only the one save so I wound up restarting entirely and playing a bit more smartly up to that point.

Dream Daddy (and loads of other games):
Extremely slow text rollout, then with prompts that give no grace period for you to realise it's a prompt. Was playing it with a friend and it was pretty obvious that I couldn't play the game after I went through the whole opening section and didn't actually select a single prompt answer because of how much I was banging A to get the text to the appear (thus selecting the first one every time before I even realised)
Oh! Okami's opening slow text bullshit exhausted me so much that I turned it off almost immediately afterwards.

Quote from: NoSleep on September 06, 2020, 01:41:16 PM
Ico's a brilliant game but this one point had me completely baffled. Just like the guy in the Let's Play linked below, I had tried what he is doing and decided that there must be something else that I had missed as that didn't seem to produce a result. So I looked everywhere else and still couldn't get past this point until, finally, I gave up and tried to find a solution (pre-internet; I luckily found I had a magazine that had a walkthrough) and discovered that I had been doing the right thing after all; it's just difficult to get the timing exactly right. A bit of a flaw in an otherwise perfect game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKp15_pMkLU&feature=youtu.be&list=PL4E456E7B4FC3F712&t=1030
Yep, that one and the one where you've to jump and grab a bar on a mill near the end were both utterly infuriating. Obviously what you were meant to do in both cases but just extremely precise and not giving enough visual clues for timing and process.
Quote from: NoSleep on September 03, 2020, 02:00:17 PM
The underground carpark in Driver; it's the first thing you have to do, then nothing as hard as that until near the end of the game.

Series deserved to bomb for that fucking stupidity. They didn't actually clarify what the terms on the list meant either, did they?

NoSleep

Quote from: peanutbutter on September 08, 2020, 11:02:29 PM
Yep, that one and the one where you've to jump and grab a bar on a mill near the end were both utterly infuriating. Obviously what you were meant to do in both cases but just extremely precise and not giving enough visual clues for timing and process.
Don't remember that, even if it was difficult, so I must have either fluked it or decided that it was the only possible way and persisted.
QuoteSeries deserved to bomb for that fucking stupidity. They didn't actually clarify what the terms on the list meant either, did they?
I think the idea was to that you had to learn all the moves so that you didn't approach the game thinking it was just another racing game. I think there were lines on the floor or instructions as to what to do. They really wanted you to eschew sensible driving and start slamming your handbrakes at every turn, etc, like in the car chases in movies; hence the elaborate playback options where you could direct a movie of how you beat a level, putting cameras wherever wanted and editing the results. They should have made it a separate tutorial option and got you straight into the first mission. You probably need some of those skills to progress, but the fun of a game is to find out for yourself how you have to play it.

Cerys

Quote from: NoSleep on September 09, 2020, 08:03:15 AM
Don't remember that, even if it was difficult, so I must have either fluked it or decided that it was the only possible way and persisted.

That one I do remember, because I was trying to get the jump right when Ambient Sheep and MissInformed and kids paid us a visit.  I either managed it while they were there or decided to take a break - either way I handed over control of the PS2 so the kids could play Tony Hawk rather than being bored shitless by grown-ups wittering on about whatever we were wittering on about.

NoSleep

Have you played Shadow of The Colossus as well? I bought that recently to have a brand new Ico-like experience (had not realised there had been a sequel) but I haven't got past the first level as yet and then put it aside for another time (last year). I'll probably dig it out and have another crack at it, but was it just me not getting it or is it much harder than Ico?