Impossible fights and things in games that fucking ruin everything.

[C_Larence]

I've been playing Yakuza 0, which is an astonishing game and one that I wish I'd never found because I'm a completionist and so far it's taken me over 60 hours to get maybe halfway through the story. There are so many side missions and minigames, and up until now most of them have been relatively fair and easy. However, I recently unlocked the "cat fights" where you have to bet on scantily clad ladies wrestling each other. Once you've picked a fighter you then choose what moves they perform against their opponent via a turn based rock, paper, scissors mechanic. Whoever loses the RPS doesn't perform a move and gets hit by the opponent instead (the severity of which is decided by random colours from white, the weakest,  through blue, green, red and finally rainbow which lets you button mash circle to do even more damage and is usually very close to a one hit kill). If the RPS is a draw then there is a button mashing contest to see who wins the tie. You have to win 10 cat fights for a trophy, and you also need to win 100,000,000 yen for in game completion stats.

https://youtu.be/T9Ukioalnxg here's a video of someone winning so you can see what it looks like.

The ways this game fucking ruins everything are:

The button mashing during ties is literally rigged. There is often no way to win it and it's completely up to the game's discretion.
Your enemy will look like they're going to do a white move, but then lo and behold when they attack it upgrades to a rainbow move and obliterates you. This very rarely happens the other way.
THERE ARE CHARACTERS WHO EVEN AFTER YOU WIN HAVE A CHANCE TO PERFORM A SPECIAL "COMEBACK" ANIMATION AND BEAT YOU!!!

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Have you played Shadow of The Colossus as well? I bought that recently to have a brand new Ico-like experience (had not realised there had been a sequel) but I haven't got past the first level as yet and then put it aside for another time (last year). I'll probably dig it out and have another crack at it, but was it just me not getting it or is it much harder than Ico?

It's a piece of piss, as far as I remember.

Boring, too.

[NoSleep]

Had you also played Ico? Did you think better of that? I managed to climb into the first area but the method of pinpointing weaknesses wasn't obviously working nor the climbing up their body like an insect to attack those weak points. I think I must have not been getting something, or something isn't working for me, if it's meant to be a piece of piss.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I liked Ico a whole heck of a lot more. I thought Shadow of the Colossus was so minimalist that there was basically bugger all to it, with only the last boss presenting any sort of challenge. I appear to be the only person in the entire world who wasn't hoodwinked by it feels that way though, so take my opinion and add salt to taste.

Also, I didn't much care for Dark Souls, so maybe I just don't like mopey mediaeval fantasy games.

[Thursday]

*edit ignore*

[Ferris]

Is there a name for that genre of game atmosphere?

Sort of vast forgotten castle-y, abandoned and decaying and slightly creepy? Prince of Persia has a similar vibe, and there are a few others I can't recall at the minute. Always wondered.

[Cerys]

Have you played Shadow of The Colossus as well? I bought that recently to have a brand new Ico-like experience (had not realised there had been a sequel) but I haven't got past the first level as yet and then put it aside for another time (last year). I'll probably dig it out and have another crack at it, but was it just me not getting it or is it much harder than Ico?

I started it many years ago but got probably no further than you.  I keep meaning to try again - maybe if I can claim the PS2 back from the sprog.

[Zetetic]

Is there a name for that genre of game atmosphere?

Sort of vast forgotten castle-y, abandoned and decaying and slightly creepy?

A relation to Gothic?

[wooders1978]

That last valkrey in god of war - sapped all my enthusiasm for the game

[NoSleep]

Is there a name for that genre of game atmosphere?

Sort of vast forgotten castle-y, abandoned and decaying and slightly creepy? Prince of Persia has a similar vibe, and there are a few others I can't recall at the minute. Always wondered.

It's an odd blend of Medieval through to 19th century, or even early 20th century, European design and architecture combined through the filter of a Japanese aesthetic. I always imagine the Japanese game designers taking holidays in Europe and bringing back tons of photos from historic buildings (which often feature that blend of Medieval through to 19th century) and ruins they have visited and melding it all together. It's an important ingredient of Steampunk.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I think atmosphere/style/mood/theme etc. works as a modifier to existing genres, rather than a genre definition in itself.

And, as I've said before, I will be god damned if I'm going to recognise "Souls-like" as a legitimate genre, so I can't be bothered thinking of one for Ico and such.

[Thursday]

Is there a name for that genre of game atmosphere?

Sort of vast forgotten castle-y, abandoned and decaying and slightly creepy? Prince of Persia has a similar vibe, and there are a few others I can't recall at the minute. Always wondered.

I mean Ico, SOTC and Last Guardian are all kind of distinct to Fumito Ueda. I know there's games with similarities, but I kind of just put his games in their own category.

[NoSleep]

I know he has a style of his own, but games like Vagrant Story and FFXII[nb]And maybe IX & X, too.[/nb] share similar elements (and they too have a style of their own).

[bgmnts]

Medieval Deso?

[Sin Agog]

Highly recommend y'all watch Angel's Egg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIhKqaNp4Dc).  It's like a movie version of all those Ueda games, full of vast, empyrean, grey dreamspaces, two characters- one a willowy, luminous, delicate young girl, the other a young man accoutred in battle garb, and a story so minimalist but rich that it unfailingly turns the audience into contributing authors.  Had to've been an influence.

[Ferris]

I know he has a style of his own, but games like Vagrant Story and FFXII[nb]And maybe IX & X, too.[/nb] share similar elements (and they too have a style of their own).

Yeah, even games like Myst have elements of it.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I says Journey is a much better successor to Ico than the official efforts.

[Blue Jam]

The final boss fight in Quantum Break:

"BETTER NOT, JACK..."

Alien: Isolation is pissing me off right now but that's probably because I'm being a n00b.

[C_Larence]

I says Journey is a much better successor to Ico than the official efforts.

Yes, and Rime was a nice little overlooked game in a similar vein this gen.

[NoSleep]

Yeah, even games like Myst have elements of it.

Myst adds Roman and ancient Greek influences into the mix as I recall.

[Capt.Midnight]

I always imagine the Japanese game designers taking holidays in Europe and bringing back tons of photos from historic buildings (which often feature that blend of Medieval through to 19th century) and ruins they have visited and melding it all together. It's an important ingredient of Steampunk.

I think the creators of Steamboy took a business trip to Manchester and took a shitload of photos for reference.

[Sin Agog]

Miyazaki did the same with Welsh mines for Castle in the Sky.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I says Journey is a much better successor to Ico than the official efforts.

Yes, and Rime was a nice little overlooked game in a similar vein this gen.

For no particular reason, I just remembered the awkwardly titled Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons. Another good game of this sort, in which you simultaneously control the titular gibberish-spouting siblings on a quest to cure their ailing father.

[Bazooka]

I completed Brothers on PSNow the other month, loved it, short and sweet, and the controls rarely went Pete Tong.

[C_Larence]

Ah yes brothers was fun. Has a nicely done emotional moment where the controls are part of the story iirc.

[Pingers]

Have you played Shadow of The Colossus as well? I bought that recently to have a brand new Ico-like experience (had not realised there had been a sequel) but I haven't got past the first level as yet and then put it aside for another time (last year). I'll probably dig it out and have another crack at it, but was it just me not getting it or is it much harder than Ico?

I found the controls a bit unforgiving, especially when you have to climb up the big fuckers. It's very easy to get shaken off and have to do it all again. Lovely looking game though.

[lazarou]

They've actually universally nerfed those. Anything other than the original 1.00 PS2 release has a significantly easier time of it.

Another one I remember being a right bastard that was nerfed in pretty short order was the race in the original Mafia. If you played it you'll remember the one. Even patched to be significantly easier it's still a bit of a bastard, being 8 minutes long and needing a first place finish if you want to play any further into the game (and this is only 5 missions in). Just fucking horrible, and with the added shittiness of requiring a near-perfect grasp of a skillset you're not really going to be using at any other point in the game.

One I mention every time this topic comes up is the puzzle in Full Throttle that requires you to kick a very specific part of a wall with specific timing, which is an egregious example of that special kind of bad design where you can be doing the right thing but unless you're doing it *exactly* right there's no clear sign you aren't just wasting your time. A lot of older adventure games can be a bit dodgy like that but it sticks out especially badly in a game that's otherwise pretty fair and easy-going.