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A Communal Watch of the Laurel and Hardy Talkies 1: 1929-30

Started by Replies From View, September 03, 2020, 07:33:16 PM

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Replies From View

I'll suggest the first week of November as the start for this.  That'll give interested folk some time to realise that this is happening and buy any DVDs/blu-rays they may require to take part.

I've been itching to continue our communal rewatch of Laurel and Hardy for a few weeks now.  I have built up my DVD collection with a few region 1 releases lately, which means I can progress through their sound era without any gaps (apart from The Rogue Song (1930) which only exists in fragments) and with the option of a range of DVD commentaries from Laurel and Hardy experts like Randy Skretvedt and Richard W. Bann.

For the first leg of this Laurel and Hardy watch-along (which took us to the end of 1929) I scoured the internet for videos of each film for us to watch.  The silent era of Laurel and Hardy is not very well covered by DVD releases at present; the superior versions available in the US have been out of print for many years and now command ridiculous prices on eBay.  So in that initial thread I felt quite relaxed about sharing links to those films when they existed online.  However the sound era is excellently covered by DVD and blu-ray releases, and if you care about Laurel and Hardy I'd encourage you to buy these films in one or more of the versions listed towards the end of this post.  From now on, excepting public domain or unavailable material I will not be sharing any video links, but I hope you will nevertheless find a way to enjoy these films and take part in these discussions.



The current thread will take us to the end of 1930, and I will be starting new threads for the years that follow.  For this one there is some overlap with the previous thread, as I wanted to rewind to a more interesting starting point.  Here's what we'll be looking at:


1927
16) The Battle of the Century (Released 31st December, 1927) - Silent - for decades mostly lost; recently rediscovered and now available on DVD and blu-ray in almost complete form

1929
32) Unaccustomed As We Are (Released 4th May, 1929) - Sound (Laurel and Hardy's first all-talking film)
33) Double Whoopee (Released 18th May, 1929) - Silent
34) Berth Marks (Released 1st June, 1929) - Sound (all-talking)
35) Men O'War (Released 29th June, 1929) - Sound (all-talking)
36) Perfect Day (Released 10th August, 1929) - Sound (all-talking)
37) They Go Boom (Released 21st September, 1929) - Sound (all-talking)
38) Bacon Grabbers (Released 19th October, 1929) - Sound (all-talking)
39) The Hoose-Gow (Released 16th November, 1929) - Sound (all-talking)
40) The Hollywood Revue of 1929 (Released 23rd November, 1929) - Sound (all-talking)
41) Angora Love (Released 14th December, 1929) - Sound (music and synchronised sound effects only)

1930
42) Night Owls (Released 4th January, 1930) - also Ladrones, the Spanish version
43) The Rogue Song (Released 17th January, 1930) - this exists only in fragments, but with a complete audio track
44) Blotto (Released 8th February, 1930) - also La Vida Nocturna, the Spanish version
45) Brats (Released 22nd March, 1930)
46) Below Zero (Released 26th April, 1930) - also Tiembla Y Titubea, the Spanish version
47) Hog Wild (Released 31st May, 1930)
48) The Laurel-Hardy Murder Case (Released 6th September, 1930) - also Noche De Duendes, the Spanish version
49) Another Fine Mess (Released 29th November, 1930) - this is a remake of Duck Soup (1927)



Here are the DVD and blu-ray releases that are available for the above films:


Laurel and Hardy:  The Collection (2004, Region 2) - containing most of the Hal Roach silents and talkies up to 1940



This remains the least complicated way to obtain Laurel and Hardy's silent shorts, but it's an unwieldy beast at 21 discs, with the films organised in the least intuitive manner imaginable and irritating colourised versions of several films padding out the set.  It was a welcome release at the time but purists and completists will find it leaves a substantial amount to be desired.  This handy website details some of its limitations (note that these issues are mostly resolved in subsequent releases):  http://www.laurelandhardy.org/newDVDREV.html

One of the biggest issues I have with this set is the PAL speed-up, which brings an unnaturally cartoonish flow to Laurel and Hardy's movements and a slightly higher pitch to their voices.  Some won't mind, but after some careful comparison I've reached the personal conclusion that it damages the rhythm and character of their work.  My suggested solution, if you choose this box set for our communal watch, is to use VLC player and then change the playback speed to 96%.  Here's how to do that:  http://wiki.robotz.com/index.php/Compensate_for_PAL_Speedup_in_Digital_Video



Laurel and Hardy:  The Essential Collection (2011, Region 1) - containing most of the Hal Roach talkies up to 1940



This set contains the same talkies as the UK release (sadly none of the silents), but restored to a much higher quality, using more recently discovered original elements (including, for example, the option to watch Perfect Day with its long-lost 1929 Vitaphone audio accompaniment, as well as the more familiar 1936 reissue soundtrack).  Without the colourised versions this set sits cosily within 10 discs, which you will want to remove from their cardboard sleeves immediately after purchase (mine are kept in a soft DVD wallet).  The foreign-language versions here have subtitles (unfathomably the UK set didn't think of it) and two optional commentary tracks are provided for each of Hog Wild (1930), Another Fine Mess (1930), Sons of the Desert (1933) and Way Out West (1937).  The only downside in my view is that once again Pardon Us (1931) is presented in its "final preview" 70 minute version, without the option to see it in its shorter theatrical release version of 56 minutes.



Laurel and Hardy:  The Definitive Restorations (2020, Region Free) - containing selected shorts and features from the Hal Roach era



This set of new 2K and 4K restorations (containing 2 features and 17 short films) includes the debut of the now almost complete The Battle of the Century (1927).  There are also numerous interviews and trailers, and an informative commentary track for every film in this release by either Skretvedt or Bann.  I've ordered my copy of this but it hasn't arrived yet; I'll be using this communal watch as the opportunity to delve into it.  It's available as a set of either 4 blu-ray discs or 6 DVDs.



The Hollywood Revue of 1929 (2009, Region 1)



This feature film is absent from the above Hal Roach sets.  It's a production that boasts an assortment of the era's M-G-M stars, with Laurel and Hardy appearing for only 6 minutes in total.  It has its own bare-bones DVD release, which I haven't yet watched so I'm not in a position to comment on the quality of the restoration.  When the time comes you may wish to seek out merely the Laurel and Hardy portions, depending on how much of a completist you are.  This film includes Buster Keaton amongst the stars, and some of the sequences (not the Laurel and Hardy ones unfortunately) were filmed using the two-colour Technicolor process, so it's an interesting slice of history in its full form.



The Rogue Song (Unavailable)

This (two-colour Technicolor) film hasn't survived in its entirety so isn't available for purchase (a few snippets exist as extras on various other releases).  Fragments survive, as does its entire soundtrack, so you will have the option of watching a cobbled-together edit or just clips, as you choose.  For The Rogue Song I will break my no-video-links rule, as we have limited options.

Replies From View

Here's the schedule, along with details of the alternative soundtracks and commentaries included on the DVD sets.


TC = The Collection (2004, Region 2)
TEC = The Essential Collection (2011, Region 1)
TDR = The Definitive Restorations (2020, Region Free)


w/c 2nd November 2020
16) The Battle of the Century
TDR:  Audio commentary with Richard W. Bann

w/c 9th November 2020
32) Unaccustomed As We Are

w/c 16th November 2020
33) Double Whoopee

w/c 23rd November 2020
34) Berth Marks
TDR:  With original 1929 soundtrack and 1936 reissue soundtrack
TDR:  Audio commentary with Randy Skretvedt

w/c 30th November 2020
35) Men O'War

w/c 7th December 2020
36) Perfect Day
TEC:  With original 1929 soundtrack and 1937 reissue soundtrack

w/c 14th December 2020
37) They Go Boom

w/c 21st December 2020
38) Bacon Grabbers

w/c 28th December 2020
39) The Hoose-Gow

w/c 4th January 2021
40) The Hollywood Revue of 1929

w/c 11th January 2021
41) Angora Love

w/c 18th January 2021
42) Night Owls

w/c 25th January 2021
Foreign-Language Version:  Ladrones (Spanish)

w/c 1st February 2021
43) The Rogue Song

w/c 8th February 2021
44) Blotto

w/c 15th February 2021
Foreign-Language Version:  La Vida Nocturna (Spanish)

w/c 22nd February 2021
45) Brats
TDR, TEC and TC:  With original 1930 soundtrack and 1937 reissue soundtrack
TDR:  Audio commentary with Randy Skretvedt

w/c 1st March 2021
46) Below Zero

w/c 8th March 2021
Foreign-Language Version:  Tiembla Y Titubea (Spanish)

w/c 15th March 2021
47) Hog Wild
TDR:  Audio commentary with Randy Skretvedt
TEC:  Two audio commentaries:  Richard W. Bann and Rich Correll together (twice)

w/c 22nd March 2021
48) The Laurel-Hardy Murder Case

w/c 29th March 2021
Foreign-Language Version:  Noche De Duendes (Spanish)

w/c 5th April 2021
49) Another Fine Mess
TEC:  Two audio commentaries:  Richard W. Bann and Piet Schreuders together and Richard W. Bann solo

Glebe

Impressive work there, Replies.

I'd like to get around to snapping up the Marx Bros Blu-rays at some point, they've been around a good while now.

daf

Quote from: Replies From View on September 03, 2020, 07:33:16 PMOne of the biggest issues I have with this set is the PAL speed-up, which brings an unnaturally cartoonish flow to Laurel and Hardy's movements and a slightly higher pitch to their voices.  Some won't mind, but after some careful comparison I've reached the personal conclusion that it damages the rhythm and character of their work.

Having only experienced the versions shown on BBC, the 4% speedup is pretty much nailed on to my brain as the 'correct' speed! I found the colourised versions on that big bastard 21 DVD (which are at the original speed) a bit sluggish.

Replies From View

It is up to you, of course.  I find the colourised ones more of a chore to watch on their own terms so wouldn't use them as a gauge personally!

I'll refer to one of Durance Vile's comments in the previous thread:

Quote from: Durance Vile on December 23, 2018, 09:32:47 PM
Also, for the first time I watched it twice, the second time with the American version as Replies recommended. It really does make a difference. You can properly see them acting.

It's hard to put a finger on why a mere 4% speed-up should make such an enormous difference, but it brings a constant over-cranked energy to performers who were acting with a far more careful pace and rhythm than lesser comics of the day.  Sped up, they lose their nuance of expression. 

I'd say that when you give Laurel and Hardy the time, you end up seeing far more than you assumed you would.  The correct speed may initially feel sluggish if you're not used to it, but for me the spirit of this communal watch is to try to see these films with fresh eyes and give the performers a go at showing the films they created rather than the grubby, hacked-to-bits versions that ended up on television, even though on a nostalgic basis you can have a love for those versions too.

It's also not my business or desire to control anyone's choices, so please do what you want to do.  I just wanted to make my case for giving the correct speed a chance.

daf

Oh god no - I've never made it though any of the colourised versions - they were just the first time I realised I'd been watching Laurel & Hardy at the wrong speed all these years!

I'm sure you're absolutely right with the pace - and I'd soon get used to it with a bit more exposure (I'm hoping for a nice UK blu ray set some time in the future).




neveragain

Brilliant work and thanks for the info about subsequent releases, I've been working from the 21-disc set (bought by an uncle) for ages and assumed it was complete. More fool me.

daf

Still looking for a copy of Fra Diavolo . .  or "Bogus Bandits" or whatever it's called - any good version of that on (region 2) DVD?

Replies From View

Quote from: daf on September 06, 2020, 09:56:44 PM
Still looking for a copy of Fra Diavolo . .  or "Bogus Bandits" or whatever it's called - any good version of that on (region 2) DVD?

Not on Region 2.  Region 1 is the way to go for most of these.  I get around the region code lock by using VLC player on my laptop.

I'll put up a post in the next couple of days suggesting the best DVD releases for everything else that's not on the above Hal Roach box sets, so people can plan ahead for the later threads.

Replies From View

As we progress through this series of threads, we'll be encountering some more films not included on any of the above Hal Roach box sets.  I thought I'd mention these now rather than later, as I've found they can take a while to ship after you have ordered them, especially if you buy them second hand.

The films absent from the Hal Roach box sets are, in order of release (and with the production company included in brackets):

The Hollywood Revue of 1929 (M-G-M) (already covered above)
The Rogue Song (M-G-M, 1930) (already covered above)
The Stolen Jools (Pat Casey, 1931)
The Devil's Brother (aka Fra Diavolo) (Hal Roach, 1933)
Hollywood Party (M-G-M, 1934)
Babes in Toyland (aka March of the Wooden Soldiers) (Hal Roach, 1934)
Bonnie Scotland (Hal Roach, 1935)
Pick a Star (Hal Roach, 1937)
The Flying Deuces (Boris Morros, 1939)
Great Guns (Twentieth Century Fox, 1941)
A-Haunting We Will Go (Twentieth Century Fox, 1942)
Air Raid Wardens (M-G-M, 1943)
Jitterbugs (Twentieth Century Fox, 1943)
The Dancing Masters (Twentieth Century Fox, 1943)
The Big Noise (Twentieth Century Fox, 1944)
Nothing but Trouble (M-G-M, 1944)
The Bullfighters (Twentieth Century Fox, 1945)
Atoll K (Raymond Eger, 1951)



Below are the best DVD releases of the above films:



The Stolen Jools (2015, Region 1)



This 20 minute film is in the public domain, and only completists should feel inclined to buy this bare-bones DVD release from The Film Detective (which actually seems to be a DVD-R).  Laurel and Hardy appear for roughly 30 seconds in this short but fascinating time-capsule:  a charity production that showcases a large cast of first-generation talking film performers from numerous studios including Paramount, Warner Bros., RKO, M-G-M and Hal Roach.  It's available online and will be one of the few exceptions to my no-video-links rule.



The Devil's Brother (aka Fra Diavolo) and Bonnie Scotland (2010, Region 1)



This DVD set from TCM includes an audio commentary from Leonard Maltin and Richard W. Bann on both films, plus Laurel and Hardy's cameo fragments from the The Hollywood Revue of 1929, The Rogue Song, Hollywood Party and Pick a Star.  A recommended release.



Hollywood Party (2011, Region 1)



This is in the mould of The Hollywood Revue of 1929.  Much the same kind of film - M-G-M stars of the day doing a stint each, with Laurel and Hardy appearing only briefly.  This release includes some bonus audio pre-recordings and outtakes of deleted songs.



Babes in Toyland (aka March of the Wooden Soldiers) (2006/2008, Region 1)

 

The sets for this film were painted in bright, vibrant colours, like illustrations in children's books; Stan Laurel went on to regret that it was not made in Technicolor, but the cost would have been prohibitive for Hal Roach at the time.  Its 2006 colourisation treatment from Legend Films is therefore (in my view) the only attempt to colourise Laurel and Hardy that doesn't feel horribly wrong in both concept and implementation.  I'd advise you to avoid The Samuel Goldwyn Company's substantially worse effort to colourise this film in 1991, however.

So there are two "best" releases of this feature, and they are both Region 1:  the Legend Films DVD (left) which contains their colourised version plus an adequate sepiatone one, and the 2008 M-G-M release (right) which offers a superior sepiatone print.  It is also available for streaming on Amazon Prime.



Pick a Star (2012, Region 1)



Another in the style of The Hollywood Revue of 1929 and Hollywood Party.  Apparently it's the best of the three films, but this is a bare-bones DVD release.



The Flying Deuces (2015, Region 2)



Initially distributed by RKO Radio Pictures and now in the public domain, The Flying Deuces is ubiquitous on DVD in edits of varying length and quality.  Muddy prints are frequently bundled with silent solo outings from Laurel and Hardy that are equally without quality control and smeared with inappropriate music.  Avoid all these cash-grabs and get this Network release instead.  It's also available for streaming on Amazon Prime if you prefer.



Great Guns, A-Haunting We Will Go, Jitterbugs, The Dancing Masters, The Big Noise and The Bullfighters (2006, Region 1)



Laurel and Hardy's films from the 1940s have a reputation for being mediocre at best.  Post-Roach, the big studios Twentieth Century Fox and M-G-M didn't grant Stan and Ollie the creative involvement they were used to or needed, and they were reduced to being merely actors in films where the writers didn't seem to understand or respect their characters.

Six features were produced by Twentieth Century Fox, and two by M-G-M.  The Region 1 DVD release of the Fox films includes informative and critical audio commentaries by Randy Skretvedt and Scott MacGillivray.  Note that the Region 2 release of these films looks identical, but it lacks all the extras including the commentaries.  So be sure to grab the Region 1 set if you intend to stick around for this phase of our communal watch.



Air Raid Wardens and Nothing but Trouble (2018, Region 1)



These are the two 1940s Laurel and Hardy offerings from M-G-M.  They are presented together on a single DVD with very few extras.



Atoll K (2018, Region 2)



Laurel and Hardy's final feature is in the public domain and is consequently available on a glut of inexpensive DVDs with differing running times and print quality.  This one from the BFI is the only one worth buying.  It comes with both a blu-ray and a DVD disc, it contains the most complete version of the film available and it includes a commentary by Glenn Mitchell as well as some other fascinating extras.


daf

A blu ray of Network's Flying Deuces is also available - a snip at around six quid on Amazon

Though the Air Raid Wardens / Nothing but Trouble disc says it's Region 1, my copy plays fine on my region 2 player - I think I read a review that mentioned that it was actually 'region free' - and possibly ALL warner DVDs were like that?

Does the music on the soundtrack also sound better at correct speed?

Replies From View

Quote from: daf on September 08, 2020, 09:49:55 AM
A blu ray of Network's Flying Deuces is also available - a snip at around six quid on Amazon

The same is true of the Legend Films release of March of the Wooden Soldiers.

Replies From View

Quote from: Satchmo Distel on September 08, 2020, 10:18:55 AM
Does the music on the soundtrack also sound better at correct speed?

It'll be corrected is all I can say to that!  I tend to notice the performance speed and vocal pitch more, but everyone will have a different priority.


Quote from: gib on September 07, 2020, 10:28:36 PM
hello mate

Hello!

daf

There's a reconstruction of The Rogue Song posted on youtube - Might be worth a squint (if it's still up) when the time comes?

Replies From View

Quote from: daf on September 08, 2020, 11:40:20 AM
There's a reconstruction of The Rogue Song posted on youtube - Might be worth a squint (if it's still up) when the time comes?

Thanks daf; this is indeed my intention!  It's quite exciting that the complete soundtrack survives.  Brings something of the spirit of 1960s Doctor Who reconstructions to proceedings.  I wonder if it will be eerie to hear the voices of Stan and Ollie in sequences that no longer exist visually.

Spudgun

If anyone wants to get warmed up for this, here's that episode of Paul Merton's Silent Clowns that focused on Laurel and Hardy. It's nothing ground-breaking, but it's a very pleasant watch made by someone obviously enthusiastic for the subject.

Replies From View

Quote from: Spudgun on October 03, 2020, 07:57:39 PM
If anyone wants to get warmed up for this, here's that episode of Paul Merton's Silent Clowns that focused on Laurel and Hardy. It's nothing ground-breaking, but it's a very pleasant watch made by someone obviously enthusiastic for the subject.

Thank you very very much Spudgun!

Replies From View

Not long until we start!

I thought it might be useful to have access to all the entries so far from Glenn Mitchell's Laurel and Hardy Encyclopedia, in alphabetical order.  Each one of these links to the relevant post in the previous Laurel and Hardy watch-along thread.

The entries given in bold indicate what I was consciously sharing on that day, and I have listed not-in-bold all the other complete entries from those pages.  I haven't listed any incomplete entries that overlapped onto them.

Please let me know if you'd like any other entries from this book to be shared.


The All-Star Series
Angora Love (same pages:  Lona Andre)
Animation
Bacon Grabbers (same pages:  Robert Bailey; Monty Banks; Richard W. Bann; Barbers; Lionel Barrymore)
The Battle of the Century
Beds (same page:  Lionel Belmore)
Berth Marks (same pages:  Harry Bernard)
Big Business (same pages:  Biblical references; Bicycles)
Mae Busch (same pages:  Bobby Burns; Richard Burton; Buses; Businessmen)
Call of the Cuckoo (same page:  Camera-Looks)
Cars (same pages:  Frank Capra; Caricatures; Mary Carr; Catch-Phrases; Cavemen; Censorship)
Charley Chase (same pages:  Charities; Chases; Charlie Chaplin; Characters - the last of these is complete, but the book's pages are in the wrong order)
Children
Colouring
Deleted scenes (same pages:  Priscilla Dean; Deaths; Suzy Delair; Dentists; Kay Deslys; Detectives)
Dorothy Coburn (same page:  Cologne)
Crying (same page:  Criminals)
Max Davidson (same page:  William Scott Darling)
Do Detectives Think?
Double Whoopee (same pages:  Gordon Douglas; Dreams)
Duck Soup (same pages:  Duels)
Early to Bed
The Finishing Touch (same pages:  Film Fun; A Fine Mess)
James Finlayson (same pages:  Fish)
Flying Elephants
Forty-Five Minutes From Hollywood
From Soup To Nuts
Gag Titles (same page:  Gambling)
Anita Garvin (same pages:  Reginald Gardiner; Billy Gilbert)
Habeas Corpus (same pages:  Hair)
The Hal Roach Studios (same pages:  Hair; Alan Hale)
Charlie Hall (same pages:  Tony Hancock)
Hats Off (same page:  Betty Healy)
The Hollywood Revue of 1929
Homosexuality  (same pages:  Homes; The Hoose-Gow)
The Hoose-Gow
Edgar Kennedy (same pages:  Buster Keaton; Patsy Kelly; Fred Kelsey; Tom Kennedy)
Landlords (same page:  June Lang)
Locations (same page:  Art Lloyd; Harold Lloyd)
Leave 'Em Laughing
Liberty (same page:  Della Lind; Lucien Littlefield)
Lost Films (same page:  Walter Long)
Love 'Em and Weep
The Lucky Dog (same pages:  Sam Lufkin; Jacquie Lyn; Sharon Lynne)
Men O'War (same pages:  Melodrama; M-G-M)
Midgets (same page:  Mexico; Charles Middleton)
Names (same page:  Near Dublin)
Now I'll Tell One (same page:  Nudity)
A Pair of Tights
Perfect Day (same pages:  Pathé Exchange; Lee Patrick; Blanche Payson; Periodicals; Pianos)
Policemen (same page:  Plays; Lon Poff; Politicians)
Putting Pants on Philip
Rediscoveries
Reissues and Remakes (same pages:  Reincarnation)
Risqué humour  (same pages:  Riding High)
Sailors, Beware! (same pages: Sailors; Malcolm St Clair)
The Second Hundred Years
Short films (same pages:  Le Roy Shield; Benjamin William Shipman; Shoes; Shops; Shotguns)
Should Married Men Go Home? (same pages:  Shotguns)
Slapstick (same pages:  Sickness; Randy Skretvedt; Skyscrapers; Martha Sleeper)
Slipping Wives (same pages:  Martha Sleeper)
Solo films
Sound (same pages:  Spectacles)
Sugar Daddies
Teaming (same pages:  Sam Taylor; Telegrams; Telephones)
That's My Wife
Their Purple Moment
Thelma Todd (same pages:  Titling; Sidney Toler; Topper; David Torrence)
They Go Boom!
Two Tars
Unaccustomed As We Are
We Faw Down (same page:  Weddings; Jacqueline Wells)
Why Girls Love Sailors
With Love and Hisses (same pages:  Norman Wisdom)
Wrong Again (same pages:  Harry Worth; Basil Wright; Writers; Sol M. Wurtzel)
Noah Young (same page:  Hal Yates; Yes, Yes, Nanette!)

Replies From View

So, to kick off the next leg of our adventure, we have not a talkie at all, but a revisiting of a silent film.


16) The Battle of the Century, released 31/12/1927




It's funny to think that this is the week I'll be experiencing the almost-complete version of this film for the very first time.  I've held off from this, as I know it's something that can only happen once - the stepping away from 'Battle of the Century' being a mysterious, lost, legendary nitrate ghost and becoming another standard entry in the Laurel and Hardy canon. 

I'm going to prepare by rewatching the previously available fragments several times, get used to the gaps and the distance, embody the sense of this film being irretrievably lost to time.  Then I'll finally allow the rediscovered film to hit me however it wants to hits me.  I'll take notes through this process and before the end of this week also report back on the audio commentary with Richard W. Bann.

I hope you join me!

sutin

I watched it on Sunday. It's good fun! The pie fight didn't disappoint.

Spudgun

Watching this longer version of The Battle of the Century is very special indeed. As RFV said, seeing some 'new' classic Laurel and Hardy isn't something we should reasonably expect to happen, but here it is. There's not much to say that I didn't say in the original thread, other than to add that the extra-extra-long pie fight definitely cements the short as one of the all-time greats. I haven't listened to the commentary yet, but if there's anything particularly interesting, I'll report back.

I did dip into some of the discs (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Laurel-Hardy-Definitive-Restorations-Blu-ray/dp/B084P3S7NJ) while waiting for the watch-along to start up again - mostly just the special features - and it seems to be a set very lovingly put together by people who genuinely care. It's not just a cash-in rehash thrown together. This is the real deal, I can't recommend it highly enough, and I hope they continue if possible. Of relevance to this week, there's a filmed interview with Anita Garvin on the first disc in which she discusses her famous pie moment 50 or so years later, which is lovely to see.

Replies From View

Well, that was a revelation.  The placement of the complete reel 2 totally transforms this film.  It's not merely a difference of a few minutes reinserted before and after the pie fight - I had never quite appreciated before how significantly the pie fight itself had been altered in previous reconstructions of this film.  Robert Youngson had preserved the sequence by releasing it in his 1958 compilation feature 'The Golden Age of Comedy'.  But he had edited the sequence quite dramatically, changing the order of certain moments and removing others, "giving it more punch" as film scholar William K Everson once put it.  And Youngson's edit was all that was known to survive of the pie fight sequence until 2015.

I shan't document all the differences between then and now (I'll share some pages from Skretvedt's book for this) but suffice to say the extra "punch" Youngson brought in 1958 was - it turns out - utterly detrimental to the total film, even if it made for a tighter sequence within his own compilation.  On both a comedic and rhythmic level his cut of the pie fight now feels off-kilter, rushing from one moment of action to the next by removing essential pauses, giving little room for anything to breathe and breaking a more natural flow from a small group of involved people to ever larger groups.  Now, instead, we can see the pie fight as nature intended, and it blooms and crescendos beautifully.

As for additional sequences, reel 2 now has an entire section prior to the pie fight, with Ollie trying to cause Stan to slip on a banana skin so they can claim some insurance money.  There's some extended business with Ollie attempting to sneak a banana into Stan's hand so the latter will take the blame for Charlie Hall's character slipping over, and I love it.  I love the childishness of him trying to get Stan into trouble, the hand-work involved in the interaction, and the sheer absurdity of anyone holding an upright banana in their fist without a skin.  It's just joyful nonsense, with Stan's bewildered, childlike face gazing out of it all.

And in this extended version, Charlie Hall is being quintessentially Charlie Hall rather than a random fellow who simply slips on a banana skin and immediately plonks a pie into Ollie's face.  We now have him meticulously squeezing and tweaking different parts of Ollie's face before, ultimately, casting the first pie of the fight.  It's wonderful to have him reinstated in full.

I haven't much more to say about this film.  It's just great to be so much closer to what audiences would have experienced in the late 20s.

daf

Sounds great - look forward to seeing the complete version if they ever release that set in the UK.

- - - -

edit : Ooh, blinkin' eck - I've just found it on youtube! (recorded from a showing on French TV)



Replies From View

Here are a few pages from the latest edition of Skretvedt's book, which goes into some detail about the rediscovery of reel 2.





 


daf

Quote from: Replies From View on November 09, 2020, 07:05:21 PM
And in this extended version, Charlie Hall is being quintessentially Charlie Hall (. . .) We now have him meticulously squeezing and tweaking different parts of Ollie's face

Loved that first tiny 'ping' he does to Ollie's nose!

daf

Quote from: Replies From View on November 09, 2020, 11:31:42 PM
Here are a few pages from the latest edition of Skretvedt's book, which goes into some detail about the rediscovery of reel 2.

Came across this interview about the discovery during my search for it on Youtube : Jon Mirsalis Interview Segment 1

Replies From View

Quote from: daf on November 09, 2020, 10:28:50 PM
Sounds great - look forward to seeing the complete version if they ever release that set in the UK.

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edit : Ooh, blinkin' eck - I've just found it on youtube! (recorded from a showing on French TV)

Well spotted!  The music is different but that's more or less what is on the DVD!

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