A Communal Watch of the Laurel and Hardy Talkies 1: 1929-30

[Endicott]

Sounds great - look forward to seeing the complete version if they ever release that set in the UK.

- - - -

edit : Ooh, blinkin' eck - I've just found it on youtube! (recorded from a showing on French TV)

Oh that's beautiful. Cheers.

[Endicott]

This week:  Laurel and Hardy's first all-talking film.


32) Unaccustomed As We Are, released 04/05/1929

Just pushing this to the new page.

[daf]

Some highspots for me -

Stan : "Any Nuts?"
- - - - -
Mrs Hardy : "Get a load of this big boy!"
- - - - -
Todd's nudey bod!!
- - - - -
Ollie : "No, Barbara, we are FROO!"
- - - - -
Ollie's 'Spaghetti Look' to audience

[Spudgun]

I gave my thoughts on Unaccustomed As We Are in the previous thread, but a couple of other things struck me this time around. The first is the kitchen-exploding scene, when compared to the semi-remake Block-Heads. In the latter, there's only one explosion, and it's massive, which is funny in its own right. But here, in contrast, they go for one of my favourite L&H 'routines':

1) Ollie does something stupid and hurts himself
2) Slow reaction, then blames Stan
3) Gradual 'reset' and regaining of composure, ready to do it properly this time
4) Ollie does the exact same thing again

Two different ways to approach the same joke, and I think I prefer this one. Related to that, thanks to sound, they are now able to do a lot more off-camera gags. Blowing up the kitchen is one (which may have worked without sound, admittedly, thanks to the fire), and Stan's fall down the stairs at the very end is another (that one definitely needs the sound effect for it to last as long as it did). There was a moment in Battle of the Century where someone slipped on a banana skin, and they cut to a different angle to show it - I think that would have been funnier if he'd fallen out of shot, but without sound they really had to signpost everything. I'm sure out-of-sight jokes would have been done on stage long before this, but this is a good example of the artform adapting to the technology, or indeed technology changing the artform.

[Replies From View]

Not one of my favourite Laurel and Hardy shorts, but I don't think that's the point.  The duo were beginning an entirely new phase of their career, and this first attempt at a talkie is what told the world that Laurel and Hardy were going to be okay.  They would survive the transition.

The 'talkie' version of their characters is immediately set in place here.  No more work needed to be done on their voices, or how they would interact.  Both Stan and Ollie have their speaking tone and inflections in place - what we see here is what we will always experience from this point onwards.

I suppose there are a few indications that the team aren't yet comfortable with this new format, but they completely get away with it.  The first couple of segments reveal a new kind of static wordiness, which really feels perfectly natural for these characters because their voices are so good, but it's Laurel and Hardy in the form of a stage play rather than the chiefly physical expression we have been used to.  Not that these segments aren't without brilliant physical work - they brim with it - but the team might still be working on the best way to weave their usual style with so many words.  We go from the corridor to meeting Mrs Hardy, and when Ollie and his wife begin their argument, Stan's discomfort might be slightly under-baked, or perhaps the camera focuses on him for a little too long.  But when the music kicks in, and Mrs Hardy spits her fury in rhythm with the record, it all fits together, blends and suddenly it's very apparent that Laurel and Hardy's talkies wouldn't be defined by the vocalisation of intertitles. 

Somewhat interestingly, silent versions of these initial Laurel and Hardy talkies were made for screening in theatres that hadn't yet been fitted for sound.  In case you are wondering, the first three minutes of the silent Unaccustomed As We Are contain no fewer than twenty one intertitle cards and yep, it's clear the team are outgrowing the silent format.  You can see it here:  https://vimeo.com/240319555.  Check it out, at least to see how it sidesteps the victrola scene and Stan's final fall down the stairs.  And also it seems like some of the sharp jump-cut edits in the sound version occur where intertitles exist in the silent one.  Compare and see what you think.

When Mrs Hardy leaves the boys, the physical comedy takes a step up, and once again we can see what sound will be bringing to their future films, and it's not gratuitous.  Some of it is timing, like hearing the gas explosion before Ollie falls backwards through the door.  And of course, Stan's cry.

A few other things - I love Stan's delivery of "Oh I thought you said breeches."  You know that's what he's going to say but the delivery is just so great - it's impossible not to fall in love with these characters on the basis of such perfect minor details. 

Also, I never quite connected with Edgar Kennedy in the silent films but he really comes to life for me here.  The more I see of the extended Hal Roach family, the more I love them all, really.

I find something charming, rather than unpleasant, about the grainy, scratchy soundtrack of this film.  The patched-together nature of Battle of the Century and the soundtrack of Unaccustomed As We Are both communicate the struggle of these old films against the pull of deterioration and decay, and I find myself even more grateful that they exist.

[Replies From View]

Filmed a month and a half before Unaccustomed As We Are, Double Whoopee is one of three silent films that ended up being released as Laurel and Hardy's sound era was taking flight.  The other two are Bacon Grabbers and Angora Love.


33) Double Whoopee, released 18/05/1929

[daf]

Some highspots for me -

- Mananging to lipread Ollie's "Why don't you watch where your going" (twice!)

- Hat & Pen business

- Harlow's Nudey Bod!!

- Charley Hall's Abe Lincoln Hat-beard

[daf]

Charley Hall's Abe Lincoln Hat-beard

Oops - Charlie Hall, I mean!

(Excuse me, my ear is full of Big Finish Eighth Doctor and Charley Pollard audios!)

[Spudgun]

- Mananging to lipread Ollie's "Why don't you watch where your going" (twice!)

Did you see this 'voiced' version, linked to in the previous thread?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw_kQ2Jvfbs

It's sort of the audio equivalent of colourising a film, but it's worth watching. Apparently even silent movies had scripted dialogue.

[Replies From View]

Thanks Spudgun.  And in case anyone missed it in the earlier thread:

The new edition of Skretvedt's book includes information about that 1969 version of Double Whoopee:

[Replies From View]

I am quite fascinated by this film, I think in large part because the 1969 voiced version turns it into a kind of mirror of Unaccustomed As We Are, which was released alongside a silent version of its own.  It sits well enough in its voiced version, albeit a little unnaturally - it always feels like a lip-reading project, with additional foley and sound effects that never appear to come truly from the performances themselves.  But it's captivating, with the actors often mouthing dialogue that approximates the intertitles without being perfectly on-script, and not always in a way that feels natural for the characters we're seeing.  It's a kind of behind-the-scenes version of Laurel and Hardy - an unfinished version that has been given a voice.

One thing that I remember from the innovation of sound films is the fact that all of a sudden everyone behind the camera needed to ensure they were silent, so they wouldn't be picked up by the microphones.  And so watching this, I'm imagining a relaxed crew laughing away, and all the performers able to play to that 'live audience' response rather than to a subdued room.  And I think you can kind of tell they were.  Maybe this is another deeper reason for the voiced version of Double Whoopee not feeling like a true talkie.  Even if the lip syncing and foley were to be done perfectly, you'd still be seeing the performances of a cast who were playing to a vibrant, jubilant crew who are forever intentionally inaudible.

The story is structurally strong enough, with an identity mix-up that quite refreshingly doesn't persist beyond its natural lifespan.  Laurel and Hardy are - through fortuitous timing and presumably their own graceful movements and gestures - mistaken for royalty, but remain oblivious; this time, they are not being duplicitous but are unwitting recipients of other people's projection.  When Stan and Ollie reveal their true roles in this hotel, we see the consternation and irritation of haughty people who only have themselves to blame for their error.  And this is great - it works well against their pomposity to have them wrestle with this mistake, in a way that contrasts with, for example, Ollie's own childish refusal to accept responsibility later in this film.

The next stand-out segment is the business with the lift, when somehow Stan and Ollie - using it exactly as it supposed to be used - end up causing all matter of calamity for the rest of the hotel.  They remain unaware, and their calm pride and confidence as they exit and stride offscreen is quite delightful.  Simple story structures depend on earlier ideas being reincorporated into later sequences, and so it goes here, with someone falling down the open shaft again when Stan and Ollie leave the hotel for the final time.  The voiced version of this film has someone off-screen commenting "Oh no; not again...!"  It somewhat subtracts from the moment.

At least two people get their clothes ripped off in this film.  There's something about undermining upper-class people by de-clothing them that has a long history in comedy.  Top hats being knocked off by snowballs, wigs being suddenly unhooked from comically bald heads, and all that kind of thing.  The more rigidly pompous anyone is, the funnier it becomes to take them down a peg or two by removing whatever is giving them their high status.  They often give off an alarmed squark alongside an impotent flapping of arms.  Folk in Double Whoopee don't do this - their social setting requires them to maintain their poise and precision, but you can see their embarrassment all the same.

This film joins many others in its climactic tit-for-tat sequence of poked eyes and thrown food.  I do enjoy these, though this film does it less purposefully or impactfully than some others, and overall it feels like an afterthought or a piece of filler, almost as if it doesn't quite know where to go next with its story before the final lift gag.  A bird from a beard - was this a reference to something else at the time?  The business with the poked eyes does feel a little forced; it's one thing to catch the wrong person with a thrown custard pie, but less convincing that somebody would accidentally poke the wrong person in the eye when the intended recipient ducks out of the way.  Plus a poked eye is a very specific and violent gesture that has never sat well with me in the world of Laurel and Hardy.

Nevertheless, it all holds together and we once again get some lovely business with Charlie Hall.  But I'm quickly realising I miss his voice, as wonderful as he nevertheless is in these silent films.



I'm falling behind with the schedule, so intend to pick up the pace a bit from now on.  It'll be Berth Marks between now and Wednesday, Men O'War for the rest of the week and we'll be back on track by Monday 7th.

[Replies From View]

34) Berth Marks, released 01/06/1929




Very excited about this one, as it's one of my favourites. 

I'm looking forward to checking out the original 1929 soundtrack for the first time (it's one of the ones that was issued with a new soundtrack in 1936, with the original subsequently being lost until only very recently) and the audio commentary with Randy Skretvedt.

[daf]

The next stand-out segment is the business with the lift, (...) with someone falling down the open shaft again when Stan and Ollie leave the hotel for the final time.

Based on Stan's fall down the stairs in the previous film, I imagine if they had sound for this film we wouldn't have seen the repeated cutaway shot of the fall and the bottom of the liftshaft - but rather just heard the bump (or splash!) - letting the imagination do the work.

A bird from a beard - was this a reference to something else at the time?

That bit feels like a pure bit of Stan whimsy - I seem to remember reading he would often come up with little surreal bits of 'business' for the films (e.g. dancing fish) - I bet he suggested that man with his arse stuck in the barrel leaping around like a frisky dog in 'Battle of the Century'!

[Replies From View]

Based on Stan's fall idown the stairs in the previous film, I imagine if they had sound for this film we wouldn't have seen the repeated cutaway shot of the fall and the bottom off the liftshaft - but rather just heard the bump (or splash!) - letting the imagination do the work.

Interesting point; yes you could well be right about that.  Repeatedly showing the bottom of the lift-shaft somewhat over-eggs the pudding, I think, though the image of those people smearing themselves around in thick black oil is a good one at first.  One of those occasions where you realise a lack of sound would require workaround compromises to communicate a story or a joke - often generating ingenious creative solutions that we are grateful for, but at other times not so much.


Edited to add:  During this time silent films were often augmented with synchronised sound effects, of course, which is another in-between technology.  So a joke like the above could still have been communicated offscreen in that manner, to some degree.

That bit feels like a pure bit of Stan whimsy - I seem to remember reading he would often come up with little surreal bits of 'business' for the films (e.g. dancing fish) - I bet he suggested that man with his arse stuck in the barrel leaping around like a frisky dog in 'Battle of the Century'!

Another good point.  Thanks!

[daf]

Berth Marks

Highlights -

• Mrs Charlie Hall's Nudey Bod!! (in the Spanish version) *
• Slowburn Jacket rips (particularly that half-lapel tug!)
• Bunk up bouncing - that looked like maybe one of Stan's ideas
• Chin/nose cracks - Sound really making a comedy difference here (I wonder if the foley artist did those live off camera?)

Other bits -

• Quite liked the guards garbled 'Pottsville' speech - you can tell they're exploring new gags that were now possible thanks to sound

• some bloke goes flying tripping over the 'fiddle' case - that seemed to come out of nowhere without any set up, but maybe it's funnier because of that.

• Someone shouts 'Bye Ollie' as they jump on to the train!

• the upper berth 'stop crowding me' scene that seems completely improvised (and goes on for ever!). This apparently took three days to shoot as they kept getting the giggles, and taking the rest of the day off to play golf! It might be one of those scenes that worked much better watching it as part of a cinema audience.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

* (I forgot Noche De Duendes was pencilled in for a few months time - luckily I only watched the first 'Berth Marks' part. As mentioned, there's much more 'on display' in the Spanish version. The 'unclothed lady in distress' certainly seemed to be a favourite gag at this point!)

[Spudgun]

• Quite liked the guards garbled 'Pottsville' speech - you can tell they're exploring new gags that were now possible thanks to sound

That for me is probably the most interesting thing about the early talkies. That joke at least would have worked on stage; but there are instances of clothes-ripping in Berth Marks that we don't see and only hear, and you can tell they're experimenting. They were really quick to discover that action taking place off-screen with only a sound effect can be even funnier than showing it.

I listened to the audio commentary as well, and was pleased with the confirmation that the excruciatingly claustrophobic bunk scene is fully intended to be excruciatingly claustrophobic. I understand why some people feel uncomfortable watching it, but I think they got it right and kept it going for just too long enough, if you get what I mean. I'd love to know exactly how much was improvised - I also suspect the vast majority of it was. My only disappointment is that they didn't come up with a second line for Babe.

Oh, and the boys are indeed missing their shoes in the final scene.

[Spudgun]

Anyone for Men o' War? Not much to add to what I wrote in the previous thread, except how much I enjoyed the opening exchange and glove/underwear confusion. It's really cleverly written, and I don't think they'd have got away with most of it a few short years later. It's only a pity there wasn't a bigger pay-off.

The big set piece towards the end is all right but not as good as previous similar sorts of efforts, and the middle bit suffers a little from early-talkie timing issues, but overall I laughed a number of times. I definitely enjoyed the opening segment best of all.

[daf]

Oops - I was waiting for Replies to fire the starting pistol with a poster or something! OK - I'll give it a watch tomorrow.

This one is quite special for me - as it's the first Laurel & Hardy I remember seeing - late 90's on BBC2 I think - something like that *

- - - - - - -
* (I was aware of them as comedy characters before this, of course, but had never watched one of their films 'from soup to nuts'.)

[daf]

Men o' War

   

Highlights :

• the 'Knickers-Gloves' sketch [only an imaginary nudey bod here!]
• Sassafrass (shy twiddle)
• Eye poke
• bottom half of the glass
• "Do-o-o-o-ohhh!!!" [is this the first one?]

 

Other Bits :

• The colour version has a few familiar Le Roy Sheild / Marvin Hatley tunes pootling away in the background to wallpaper over what must be the roughest Laurel & Hardy soundtrack so far. I'm wondering if (in the original verson) that soft ukelele strumming away during the opening scenes was a deliberate attempt a to record a music 'bed' while they filmed, (rather than just some member of the public doing a bit of busking)

• "They Faw Down" - (knickers of course), possibly also a reference to the contemporary pop hit - "I Faw Down an go Boom"

• Charlie Hall's slowburn spectacular on ice water - like the upper berth scene from the previous film, this probably worked a bit better watching it with a crowd in the cinema. The sound (or the lack of it) is also pretty much what I'd imagine it would be like on one of their silents - generally mucking about and vamping with no proper dialogue until they get to the end gag.

• Some excellent eye-popping business from Finlayson at the soda counter - but his cut-ins during the water fight are very jarring - though, again, the laughing of the cinema audience would probably have smoothed over the discrepancies in the sound at these points.

[Phoenix Lazarus]

Men o' War

   

Highlights :

• the 'Knickers-Gloves' sketch [only an imaginary nudey bod here!]
• Sassafrass (shy twiddle)
• Eye poke
• bottom half of the glass
• "Do-o-o-o-ohhh!!!" [is this the first one?]

Isn't this the one where Stan, catching the eye of two passing girls, does an ingratiating shoulder shrug and head-bob with a silly grin, reducing them both to fits of laughter.  That's a moment I love!

[daf]

Yes, I think that's in here.

Stan's expressions and timing in this are brilliant - I particularly like the bit where you can see his brain slowly catching on following the "you refuse" pep-talk - all prime silent film business straight down the barrel.

[Replies From View]

Oops - I was waiting for Replies to fire the starting pistol with a poster or something!

Thank you for being as patient as you were, waiting for as long as you did, and finally for taking the lead to fill the gap while I was being inactive.  I'm hoping to drive this thread at the pace we need, but I'm mostly exhausted by work at the moment, and find that in my downtime I'm not being very creative and I'm struggling to focus on projects that require any depth of engagement.


So here's me catching up a bit by reviewing Berth Marks, and I will try to get us all back on track quite soon.  If you grow impatient please do keep things rolling, as I'd be upset if this thread became defined by my tardiness.



I absolutely love this film from start to finish.  From the beautifully choreographed initial moments of Stan attempting to be met by Ollie, to the delightful clothes-tearing scene on the train, the berth scene itself and the final sequence on the train platform, sans shoes, this film is just about perfect in every way.  The story is simple, the comedy is tight, and not a single frame of film is wasted.  It's immaculately paced, none of the repetition becomes tiresome, and the story has its own momentum, snatching everything forward exactly when it needs to move on.

It is somehow also quite stressful at times.  With the train waiting, jangling its bell, precious time is wasted with Stan and Ollie failing to meet up.  Their sheet music spills everywhere and then we experience their ineptitude attempting to pick it back up, where they drop more paper than they collect and somehow they get their hats mixed up.  Then another distraction as someone trips over Stan's fiddle.  Berth Marks is triumphant in how it conveys frustration within these difficulties; here it's not only a matter of two men winding each other up by failing to complete a task - somehow the tension draws the viewer in too:  we want them to catch the train, sleep well and disembark successfully, and the very film is fighting us.  Not every Laurel and Hardy film achieves this.

And the sequence in the berth is a masterpiece on its own.  A tight, claustrophobic atmosphere, with Stan and Ollie fighting against an entanglement of limbs, clothes, bedding and a tenacious string vest - plus there's the usual status difference between the pair, with Stan continually panicking because, in this compromising situation, he still takes Ollie to be his superior.  You really need to watch Berth Marks at its correct speed to experience these scenes properly.  I've seen the UK DVD of this film and it all flaps through with a different slapstick energy.  It might sound bizarre but the comedy in this film requires you to empathise with its stressful energy, and that demands a naturalistic pace.

The clothes-tearing sequence is perfectly built.  Charlie Hall's initial misunderstanding and act of singular vandalism couldn't be more minimal - there's no need for an extended shaking of fists here:  just in, and out.  And the scene continues in this manner, unfolding rhythmically with a minimum of gesture, number of steps, glances and tears.  Just an endlessly delightful string of perfectly timed exchanges, and just enough examples of it not to outwear its welcome before we finally see an entire carriage of people ripping into each other's garments.  This scenario and how it unfolds beats the poked eyes at the end of Double Whoopee for me, and even the cream pies in Battle of the Century.  I simply find it perfect.


Noche De Duendes has been mentioned and yes, it's a fascinating comparison.  The train interior for Berth Marks was recreated for Noche De Duendes so that different supporting cast could be included, along with newly recorded dialogue in Spanish.  Before watching it for the first time earlier this year, I wondered how they would recreate the berth scene in other languages, as it was largely improvised and would surely lose a lot in translation if refilmed from scratch.  And we'll encounter their answer to this question when we get to Noche De Duendes in a few months.


Berth Marks is one of a handful of early Laurel and Hardy talkies selected in 1936 for rerelease, and in the process given new soundtracks to bring them more in line with their other films of that era.  This process involved replacing some of the sound effects, adding the Dance of the Cuckoos theme which wasn't attached to Laurel and Hardy until 1930, and including more modern popular music in the soundtrack.   In 1929 the sound shorts were supplied with Vitaphone discs for the audio - separate objects from the film itself, and therefore easy to misplace or lose, especially when these were superseded by new soundtracks in the late 30s.

Comparing these:  obviously there are no instances of the Cuckoo theme in the 1929 version, as it hadn't yet become associated with Laurel and Hardy.  The sequence with Stan and Ollie attempting to meet each other presents, instead, a cacophony of railway station and crowd sounds.  The 1936 release utilises the same background station ambience but mixes it at a lower volume with the Cuckoo theme playing over the top; it also extends the ambient station sounds over the scene with Stan, Ollie and the conductor talking together; the 1929 audio simply cuts sharply to the microphone sound for the close-up, creating a far cruder edit.  It's an interesting development in sound design to observe.

Considering the above effort, it's interesting that the 1936 version didn't also seek to edit out the "Bye Ollie!  Bye Stan!" calls as the train pulls away.  There isn't any obvious synchronicity between visual and audio elements as they chase the train, so ambience from elsewhere in the scene could have easily been used instead, or new train sounds recorded.

On the train, the ambient sounds are completely replaced.  On the 1936 version, we experience a variety of interior sounds prominently dubbed over every scene, including little dinging sounds that descend in pitch, which I'm presuming are signal boxes.  The 1929 version has a sparser sound palette, quieter, with a gentle patter of voices which seems to be coming live from the set.  Altogether the remake generates a more convincing train environment, and bridges untidy audio edits where the film cuts.

Perhaps oddly, what continues to define the 1929 soundtrack is what it doesn't have.  An occasional train sound can be heard very quietly from time to time, to remind us of our location, but otherwise the scenes play almost silently.  The 1936 version even gives us a unique ambient sound for the scene where Stan and Ollie's shoes are thrown out of the open window.  Comparatively, the 1929 original feels like a Beckett play, with long stretches of silence while Stan and Ollie struggle against their clothes, themselves and each other.

The Dance of the Cuckoos brings the 1936 version of Berth Marks to a close, and in terms of duration it fits perfectly from the moment Ollie rolls his sleeves up to the end title card.  However, it has always sat a little strangely for me in these 1929 films, when Laurel and Hardy's talkies were still finding their feet.  It's also odd seeing Stan and Ollie running away in complete silence, though, just because I am more familiar with the 1936 one. 

All in all, it's great to have both versions.  When they revisited Berth Marks in 1936, what they essentially did was 'finish' the film, tidy it up, strip out the cruder details.  This made for a more polished film, but it meant a crucial piece of the jigsaw puzzle was lost.  The 1929 Vitaphone recording shines an important light on how these early talkies were put together:  you experience the studio sets for what they are, and you can palpably sense that the ambient sounds are being played just off-camera somehow, for they feel distant and non-immersive.  It's wondrous to now be able to experience what was made and released at the time, when the studios were still discovering how to make talkies work.

[Replies From View]

• "Do-o-o-o-ohhh!!!" [is this the first one?]

Yes!  Men O' War was Finlayson's first sound film.

[daf]

Thank you for being as patient as you were, waiting for as long as you did, and finally for taking the lead to fill the gap while I was being inactive.  I'm hoping to drive this thread at the pace we need, but I'm mostly exhausted by work at the moment, and find that in my downtime I'm not being very creative and I'm struggling to focus on projects that require any depth of engagement.

No problem - take whatever time you need. I'm just happy to have an excuse to watch these films again!

[Botty Cello]

Back when we only had 3 channels on TV and no kids holiday club, Lauren and Hardy were a god send. Otherwise you'd be watching an old movie and if they started to sing your heart fell because you knew it was going to be crap. Gawd bless Lauren , great actor and I believe he wrote and edited them, whilst Hardy was just a great actor.

[daf]

Lauren and Hardy