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March 28, 2024, 10:50:41 AM

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Crusader Kings 3

Started by Mobius, September 09, 2020, 05:11:44 AM

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Mobius

Anyone got this? Any fans?

I've started about 20 new games already. The tutorial and stuff are a bit more accessible this time around, but I'm still finding watching Youtube tutorials immensely helpful.

A ridiculously deep game full of micromanagement. Lots of fun.

Dog Botherer

wife has been hooked since released, i haven't had a chance to get started yet.

yet.

Leon-C

Loved what I've played of this thus far. The 3D-modelled characters in particular are a massive improvement over the portraits in the last game, especially when it comes to characters ageing. I'm finding myself a bit overwhelmed with some stuff though, even having played CK2 for a long time.

Gurke and Hare

Quote from: Mobius on September 09, 2020, 05:11:44 AM
I've started about 20 new games already. The tutorial and stuff are a bit more accessible this time around, but I'm still finding watching Youtube tutorials immensely helpful.

How much more accessible? Better than the one in CK2 that goes "Okay, we've shown you 0.1% of the stuff in the game, you're on your own now. Troops are massing on your borders and we haven't even touched on military stuff lol"? If I'm going to spend £45 on this fucker I don't want to have to go traipsing round YouTube to find out how to play it.

Bleeding Kansas

It's on the MS Game pass for PC I think which might be a cheaper way of trying it out.

Gurke and Hare

Quote from: Bleeding Kansas on September 14, 2020, 11:37:12 AM
It's on the MS Game pass for PC I think which might be a cheaper way of trying it out.

Thanks, but I'm a Linux person so no such luck.

Mobius

Quote from: Gurke and Hare on September 14, 2020, 11:17:12 AM
How much more accessible? Better than the one in CK2 that goes "Okay, we've shown you 0.1% of the stuff in the game, you're on your own now. Troops are massing on your borders and we haven't even touched on military stuff lol"? If I'm going to spend £45 on this fucker I don't want to have to go traipsing round YouTube to find out how to play it.

The tutorial does go into battles, but yeah regardless of how much more improved the tutorial is, there's still a lot of stuff that's confusing.

I generally hate having to do extra work to learn a game but for some reason with CK, I don't mind. I've been enjoying peoples playthroughs on youtube, enjoy the historical aspect and learning a bit along the way

But yeah it is a dense, hard game. If you really hated CK2, then 3 might not be for you.

There are a ton of mods already that make aspects of the game less punishing if you want a more casual experience. Personally I play on Very Easy mode because the game is nails.

Zetetic

Is hard? Partly it helps that you can mostly ignore stuff in CK3, and muddle through. More so than any EU game, for example.

Military affairs are overwhelmingly about having more troops in practice, at least as far as I can tell, and that's overwhelmingly about having enough land (or enough money to buy mercenaries - which you probably don't, at the start).

I guess it depends what you're trying to achieve though. If you're trying to conquer Europe then I imagine you probable do need to get better at the min/maxing.

Schmo Diddley

I love paradox games, put a lot of time into EU4. Never got into CK2 as I found the whole interface a bit bewildering and lots of the mechanics and stuff quite impenetrable.

Really want to play this but I'm on a Mac. I'd need to upgrade to Catalina OS to play it as it's 64 bit. But Catalina doesn't support 32 bit games, meaning I seemingly wouldn't be able to play anything else in my Steam library. Cheeeeeers.

Schmo Diddley

Decided to upgrade to Catalina and buy it. Keeps freezing every 5 minutes so that I have to turn the computer off.

Mobius

If you so wish, you can play Crusader Kings 3 for entirely free (NO MONEY) for the next 3-4 days

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1158310/Crusader_Kings_III/

They've also just released the first of what'll be many DLC, The Northern Lords

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1303183/Crusader_Kings_III_Northern_Lords/

kryton2.0

Am I right in saying they didn't include any of the 'weird' stuff from CK2, like demonic children and werewolves and the more magical/mysterious and non-historical elements?
If so, I'll put money on that being a future DLC.

Mobius

Yeah that stuff isn't in Crusader Kings 3 yet. I'm sure it'll come down the line. There's a load of mods and stuff that probably already have it covered though.

Fry

I've banged my head against this game a couple of times, not really managed to get on with it. Does anybody have a YouTuber they recommend for learning the game?

Mobius

Italian Spartacus was a good one I remember from when I started playing. One Proud Bavarian is good too.

If you haven't already I'd suggest playing the Tutorial as it's actually pretty helpful. Play on Very Easy, or pick someone a bit overpowered like Harald Fairhair.

Something that helped me to 'get' the game was to stop treating it like other games e.g. trying to win, getting frustrated when things don't go your way, or losing interest when your character dies or get fucked over. It's hard to do but I just try and roll with whatever happens. Treat it like a roleplay campaign or something.

MoreauVasz

I put about 1500 hours into CK2. I am currently trying to steer clear of CK3 as it is like crack to me.

My one piece of advice for the franchise is to ignore the urge to conquer stuff.

The military side of things has never been that complex and it's a bit like poker in that you can basically win by using the size of your stack to lean on people simply by being larger and choosing your moment. There's fun to be had there but it's not really what the game is about...

The problem is that, say you expand from a barony to a kingdom in a couple of generations, you wind up having to manage your vassals, your family, and your council. Being good at fighting won't help you with that.

CK is about governance and governance isn't about fighting but about managing your dynasty. It's about having your kids marry well, cultivating the skills of your grandkids, and knowing who can be trusted to run a border barony without giving all the land away to his halfwit drinking buddies.

Best way to develop those skills is to play the game a bit more like the sims. Focus on skills and relationships rather than acquiring more land. Get a feel for your family and learn how to operate the control levers the game provides and only then seek to expand your holdings.

Playing as a Muslim in CK2 taught me a lot as the game forced you to expand and hand  new land over to your sons. I could handle the expansion but within a generation or so I was handing real estate over to these toothless inbred neglected half-bastards who couldn't be trusted to hold on to the land I gave them.

kryton2.0

Yep, CK2 is defo a game that you should never 'try and win'. For me it's more a story generator and as mentioned half the fun is trying to deal with all the social/family problems that come with trying to run an empire. Your lunatic, hunchbacked heir won't last long and may cause revolts, but maybe your dashing second son just might be the King people desire.

bgmnts

Necrobump sorry but this game is seeing a release on consoles! Very exciting.

oggyraiding

Bought this at launch but have been unable to get into it. I've played the tutorial probably 6 times, and as soon as it ends I feel completely lost. What are some good rulers to start with? I felt a bit remote playing as the Irish tutorial dude.

Mobius

Ireland is good for the tutorial, but it's pretty hard to play in Ireland because you've got Vikings on your doorstep all the time and I seem to recall that due to their religious/cultural tenants, you can't raid overseas which decreases your diplomacy range and just makes it harder overall. If you can pump some children out you can marry them off to neighbours for alliance. Or you can just convert to Asatru, that'll put you on more favourable terms with the invaders (but piss off your insular neighbours)

A good starter is Haesteinn of Montaigu (tiny province just south of Burgandy). He's a bit of a 'cheat mode', starts with good resources and most importantly the 'Varangian Adventure' war option which lets you up sticks, invade someone else and make that your home (Montaigu gets left to a local lord) - so you can almost pick anywhere in Europe and just go there. A good option is Cagliari, as you can build a mine there. On top of the adventure, Haesteinn also receives 'event troops' so basically, you have a stronger army/more Men At Arms than most people around you. You have the pope next door which makes things interesting and your fellow vikings are quite far away

Thing with CK3 is it's more of a roleplay simulator than a strategy game almost, so you have to decide how you want to rule and what you want to do. You can have a dogshit army and be a complete wimp and still be very powerful with alliances. You can be a warmongerer, religious nutter. Your starter character might be old and decrepid, but might have a trait you desperately want your child to inherit. Sometimes I start a new game knowing the first 200 years will be a write-off, looking to the future. Keep an eye on your neighbours and their alliances, assasinate neighbours, slowly whittle dynasties away. Marry a child off to a King of Queen, then you're only a few deaths away from being very powerful. Of course once you start amassing land, you have to deal with unruly Lieges and a whole new set of problems.

Honestly I probably started about 50 new games before it 'clicked' - definitely doesn't hurt to watch a few videos on youtube. As long as you've got an heir though, it's never over. Pump out children, marry them off to neighbouring leaders childrens and you can sit fairly comfortably knowing they won't attack you, and if you do get war declared they'll rise up with you.

You can play as a big powerful leader with a huge army but it's not necessarily 'easier' because you're dealing with internal politics and threat of being overthrown. Whereas small leaders are manageable, but always at risk of being invaded. It's a constant tricky balance of maintaining size/land/happiness of those underneath you. Depending on which of the skill trees you opt for, and your characters stats, how you rule can vary a lot.

bgmnts

Once I get to play this I can't wait to play as Gwent and get fucking schooled in five turns.

Zetetic

Any excuse to link back to this: https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=50976.msg2687629#msg2687629

In CK2, at least, the Welsh petty kingdoms weren't a bad starting place - not too difficult to glob up the rest of Wales, and maybe Ireland, and careful marriage can help break up England surprisingly easily (particularly if the Norman Conquest goes to shit).

Mobius

Just bumping this to let people know that on February 8th the first expansion for Crusader Kings 3, called Royal Court is being released, as well as patch 1.5.

Royal Court brings

Throne Room: A visual representation of your royal court will reflect all the accumulated majesty and prestige of your dynasty.
Hold Court: Interact with vassals and courtiers as they come to you with their problems, seeking a royal judgment.
Grandeur: Increase the quality of life at your court with fancier trappings and better food, all the better to impress your rivals and attract higher quality guests.
Inspired People: Talented artists, craftspeople and thinkers can work on new projects, adding treasures and artifacts to your court.
Hybrid Cultures: Make the most of a multicultural realm, developing a new way of life that is specifically adapted to your population and geography.
Cultural Divergence: Split from your traditional culture, adapting it into something new that better fits your aspirations.

I can't wait for the culture changes.

Crusader Kings 3 is also being released on Playstation 5 and XBOX on March 29th, which is pretty cool. Stellaris runs great on console so I may switch over.

Ham Bap

Bought this at the end of 2020 (I think it was). Played the tutorial, watched a few videos. Stopped  after a couple of games and never went back to it.

Played it today a bit there, after seeing this thread, and still not got my head around it.
A couple of YouTube videos tomorrow and will play the tutorial again.
Need an easy guide to look at now and then.

I keep trying to play it like a resource management game, building up my capital etc.
I'm sure it'll be easy enough once it clicks. Think I read somewhere to play it more like a Sims game more than anything.

Been looking forward to it on console anyway. Love strategy games.
Have loads of annual leave to take. Gonna take some days off when it comes out for PS5.

zomgmouse

I had 2 and tried playing it and quite liked it and then a friend of mine bought me 3 so I could play with him and now I've become rather addicted. I didn't think I'd enjoy it due to getting a bit panicked by RTSs and enjoying Civ a lot but the fact that you can pause and the relative slowness of the game make it manageable and very immersive. Can attest to the usefulness of the tutorial (particularly in comparison to 2).

Recently started a game from the very bottom left of the map (Bassa) and want to see how far out I can expand. Created a few kingdoms then carked it and so now my heir and his brothers have split all my land which is a bit of a snag. Oh well.

Not sure I'll get the Royal Court just yet but we shall see.

Catalogue of ills

Quote from: Gurke and Hare on September 14, 2020, 11:17:12 AMHow much more accessible? Better than the one in CK2 that goes "Okay, we've shown you 0.1% of the stuff in the game, you're on your own now. Troops are massing on your borders and we haven't even touched on military stuff lol"? If I'm going to spend £45 on this fucker I don't want to have to go traipsing round YouTube to find out how to play it.

Paradox do have a nasty habit of doing this. The interface for Stellaris is fine and the game does help you get going. Victoria 2, on the other hand - fuck that. Is it because they're pitched at uber-geeks who can work it all out for themselves or what?

Ignatius_S

Quote from: Catalogue of ills on February 02, 2022, 05:50:37 PMParadox do have a nasty habit of doing this. The interface for Stellaris is fine and the game does help you get going. Victoria 2, on the other hand - fuck that. Is it because they're pitched at uber-geeks who can work it all out for themselves or what?

CK3 has a tooltip system that is very effective and does a good job in explaining aspects like the interface. It uses a nested approach, which provides greater detail if people want. At the time around release, Paradox had said it was trialing this approach - more recently, it's shown how Victoria 3 will be utilising it: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-29-user-experience.1506484/

Although I had played CK2, it was a long time ago and although initially I suspected my hazy memory did help me get to grip with CK3, this approach to the interface was most likely the main cause and really pleased to see that they will extending it to other games.

I meant to go back to CK3 when the first expansion came out, so nice to see that will be soon...

Catalogue of ills

Quote from: Ignatius_S on February 04, 2022, 01:57:32 PMCK3 has a tooltip system that is very effective and does a good job in explaining aspects like the interface. It uses a nested approach, which provides greater detail if people want. At the time around release, Paradox had said it was trialing this approach - more recently, it's shown how Victoria 3 will be utilising it: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-29-user-experience.1506484/

Although I had played CK2, it was a long time ago and although initially I suspected my hazy memory did help me get to grip with CK3, this approach to the interface was most likely the main cause and really pleased to see that they will extending it to other games.

I meant to go back to CK3 when the first expansion came out, so nice to see that will be soon...

That's good news. I bought Victoria 2 after playing Stellaris for a while and assumed I would be able to get to grips with it as easily as Stellaris - not so. The game didn't necessarily behave in the way that the tutorials suggested and there was so much that was left to guesswork or trawling through wikis and Youtube - I wanted a game, not a job.

I've been playing Stellaris with a couple of friends which has been a lot of fun as we have helped each other wherever possible, which has opened up possibilities that you don't often get unless you are shit hot at it. If anyone has any recommendations for something similar but not too similar that we could embark on next that would be much appreciated. They have already played all the Civilisation games so that's out.

zomgmouse

oh yeah the tooltips are great and they have tooltips within tooltips for when you need to look something up in what you're looking up. also the in-game encyclopaedia is quite useful

Joe Qunt

Been watching some YouTube videos of CK3, quite interested in buying it now. Would you recommend getting it? Should I get the DLC as well or leave it at the base game? What are your thoughts?

You may not know anything about this issue, but what do you reckon? Send us your reckons...