Black rappers that use 'the n word'

[jobotic]

I doubt anyone here gives a monkey's abut a Drake song or its lyrics.

Your "loads of black people agree with me, and if it was them saying it you'd listen so why not when I say it?" posts are what grate. You really can't see the problem there?

And playing it to your children? Eh? I love the work of Steve Albini but I can resist the need to sing along to Songs About Fucking when I put my daughter to bed, and if I didn't that'd be on me, not Albini.

[JaDanketies]

Your "loads of black people agree with me, and if it was them saying it you'd listen so why not when I say it?" posts are what grate. You really can't see the problem there?

Well it's central to the debate, isn't it? The point people make is that I have no right to comment on it because I'm not black. My unanswered question is, if a black person was making the same argument, would you have the right to agree with them?

I rapped along to Forgot About Dre (and followed it up with Murder ya Life by Necro) because I realised he slept faster with rapid stacatto lyrics, he tried to pay attention to me and it was too much for his brain to handle. Now he gets to sleep fine by himself. There are only a handful of rap songs I know 100% so I didn't have many options

[non capisco]

I rapped along to Forgot About Dre (and followed it up with Murder ya Life by Necro) because I realised he slept faster with rapid stacatto lyrics

Should have just gone with Hookie Street.

[jobotic]

Or Supergran

[The Mollusk]

I rapped along to Forgot About Dre (and followed it up with Murder ya Life by Necro) because I realised he slept faster with rapid stacatto lyrics, he tried to pay attention to me and it was too much for his brain to handle. Now he gets to sleep fine by himself.

Maybe he's just pretending to get to sleep fine on his own to save himself the crippling embarrassment of listening to his absolute cringefest dad rapping Necro.

[JaDanketies]

Maybe he's just pretending to get to sleep fine on his own to save himself the crippling embarrassment of listening to his absolute cringefest dad rapping Necro.

You got real mad at this topic and I don't really know why.

[Shit Good Nose]

We Didn't Start The Fire.  Look at your non-existent watch and say you've got a fitting when he asks what the Bay of Pigs invasion is.

[JaDanketies]

Do you have kids, Mollusk? I mean it's not like I especially care about the n word in Drake songs but I care enough to make a whole topic now I've got a kid. Kinda like how people say you get more invested in the world when you've got a kid

I got blocked by Necro on Facebook for asking him to stop being homophobic

[The Mollusk]

You got real mad at this topic and I don't really know why.

You've insinuated I am "real mad" three times now (when I've been pretty chill throughout this whole thing, besides last night when I was pissed) and you've also put words in my mouth about white supremacists, both of which are a bit reflective of some degree of insecurity. Even if they're not I'd still rather you didn't do it, please.

[JaDanketies]

Yeah I guess Candace Owens and Debbie Hayton are the slippery slope argument ad absurdum points. If it's always wrong for white people to have a problem with black people saying the n word / trans people saying transphobic slurs, you should agree that I should stay quiet if Candace Owens and Debbie Hayton use said slurs. Or there is some line in the sand that you'd draw, too. Might be a different place than my line, but you would agree there's a line.

[The Mollusk]

The amount of flagrant point-missing or avoidance you continue to do is honestly exhausting. I still can't tell if it's because you're a troll or if you are actually having trouble articulating your bizarre argument but keep tunnelling in other directions instead of just saying "actually maybe it is me that's wrong". Either way, I cannot be arsed with this farcical discussion any more. I've said my bit numerous times over the last five pages but you still seem to be oblivious so it's just boring to me now. Someone else can come in and bang their head against the wall.

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

tranny tranny tranny

are we squirming yet!!!

[bgmnts]

Define 'white art', because 'black art' is definitely a real and recognised thing with respect to history/race/colonialism etc?

No idea. Can black people only do black art? Do white people not get an art. It's confusing to follow and keep up.

All I know is that nobody should really be saying the n word frivolously, regardless of who they are.

[The Mollusk]

"Black art" has more prevalence and clout as a medium in the same way that BLM does, I'd imagine. If we lived in a more tolerate world there wouldn't be a need to say that black art deserves its own focus but it's about establishing a norm that black people have an artistic voice to level the playing field for a more compassionate future.

[non capisco]

Do you have kids, Mollusk? I mean it's not like I especially care about the n word in Drake songs but I care enough to make a whole topic now I've got a kid. Kinda like how people say you get more invested in the world when you've got a kid

I find kids generally do just drop off after a while and there's no actual need to stand over their beds rapping them to sleep.

This "what if my child hears the n word" angle you keep coming up with seems very disingenuous, JaDanketies.

[Shit Good Nose]

If you have any concerns about your child hearing the n-word, or indeed any predudicial epithet, during the bedtime routine, then I would suggest singing a different song.  Something by Phil Minton perhaps.

[non capisco]

Or 'Rat Rappin'' by Roland Rat. "La-di-dah, la-di-dee, I'm a superstar, don't question me!" Your child will be out like a light.

[rue the polywhirl]

If you have any concerns about your child hearing the n-word, or indeed any predudicial epithet, during the bedtime routine, then I would suggest singing a different song.  Something by Phil Minton perhaps.

It's always a risk with free-improvvers such as him, especially if you are hiring him to sing to your child in person, because they can free associatively blurt out an offensive word or racial epithet by completely coincidental combination of random but offence-conspiring vowels or noises.

[JaDanketies]

If you have any concerns about your child hearing the n-word, or indeed any predudicial epithet, during the bedtime routine, then I would suggest singing a different song.  Something by Phil Minton perhaps.

It's not about the bedtime routine obv. I could foresee my child hearing and repeating the n-word as often as they hear c**n or k*ke - if it wasn't used casually by pop-stars. As it is, when I was younger, white and Asian kids in high school said it all the time.

But like I said, my main criticism of it is that it's bad music and bad lyrics. It doesn't necessarily have to be some large and broad political point about the state of the world and the future of society. It can merely be that Future rapping about n*****s, bitches and diamonds is tiresome.

The crux of the disagreement is that some people don't think it's my place to criticise a song for using the n-word. "Well, literally everything about that pop song is terrible, except for some of the lyrics, which are about the topic of n****s, bitches and diamonds. I don't like the bitches and diamonds aspect of the lyrics, but I have no comment to make about the n***** theme.

"Alas, it is impossible for me to have a complaint about Future using n****** frivolously in this dumb pop song for children, as I am white and it is his word. Even though racist white people would use 'his' word all the time, too."

[JaDanketies]

Drake fans in Ireland - look pretty young

Drake fans queuing in Amsterdam - look pretty white

source

so seriously, I wanna know. If one of them uses the n-word in the context of singing along to a song by Drake, are they doing a bad thing? And, if so, Drake holds zero responsibility for them doing this bad thing?

Goblin, I don't feel uncomfortable about hearing the n-word. Like I said earlier, I know Forgot About Dre better than I know the Lord's Prayer and I wouldn't even notice I'm personally saying the n-word when I sing along with it, unless I'm making a special effort to avoid swearing.

Saying it's black art for black people does not ring true. It's pop music and the overwhelming majority of consumers of it - especially in Europe - are white kids. I can't see any motivation for misrepresenting it as 'black art for black people' other than because of all this progressive discourse about the n-word being black people's reclaimed word, probably mixed with a fear about art censorship.

[Shit Good Nose]

It's not about the bedtime routine obv. I could foresee my child hearing and repeating the n-word as often as they hear c**n or k*ke - if it wasn't used casually by pop-stars. As it is, when I was younger, white and Asian kids in high school said it all the time.

But like I said, my main criticism of it is that it's bad music and bad lyrics. It doesn't necessarily have to be some large and broad political point about the state of the world and the future of society. It can merely be that Future rapping about n*****s, bitches and diamonds is tiresome.

The crux of the disagreement is that some people don't think it's my place to criticise a song for using the n-word. "Well, literally everything about that pop song is terrible, except for some of the lyrics, which are about the topic of n****s, bitches and diamonds. I don't like the bitches and diamonds aspect of the lyrics, but I have no comment to make about the n***** theme.

"Alas, it is impossible for me to have a complaint about Future using n****** frivolously in this dumb pop song for children, as I am white and it is his word. Even though racist white people would use 'his' word all the time, too."

Okay, so maybe an instrumental then.

[JaDanketies]

Okay, so maybe an instrumental then.

if there's one thing you could do to make that Drake song worse, it would be to release it as an instrumental.

or is it just totally wrong for me to say anything about 'black art' whatsoever

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

I rapped along to Forgot About Dre (and followed it up with Murder ya Life by Necro) because I realised he slept faster with rapid stacatto lyrics, he tried to pay attention to me and it was too much for his brain to handle. Now he gets to sleep fine by himself. There are only a handful of rap songs I know 100% so I didn't have many options

You sound like a fucking lunatic.

[Better Midlands]

Drake fans queuing in Amsterdam - look pretty white

My white teenage daughter was at that one, he cancelled it twice at the last minute IIRC.

rapping about n*****s, bitches and diamonds is tiresome

Can't disagree with that, it got old a long time ago.

[Harpo Speaks]

This seems to be a conflation of two issues. The first being your distaste for commercial hip-hop that you see as lyrically shallow, and secondly a question as to whether the black community should use the word in contexts where a white audience could be exposed to it.

It's quite a bizarre thread.

Forgetting Drake for a moment, would it be your assertion that Dre shouldn't have used the word on Forgot About Dre?

[bgmnts]

This seems to be a conflation of two issues. The first being your distaste for commercial hip-hop that you see as lyrically shallow, and secondly a question as to whether the black community should use the word in contexts where a white audience could be exposed to it.

Well if you combine those two you get the question Should black people use the n word in a frivolous lyrical context?

[JaDanketies]

Forgetting Drake for a moment, would it be your assertion that Dre shouldn't have used the word on Forgot About Dre?

I would say that Dre would get a pass when he was with NWA, but my peers and I would listen to 2001 all the time (and still do). And it definitely helped to normalise the n-word. I guess I'm approaching this through a utilitarianism perspective (?) - does Dre using the n-word provide more good to the world than harm? And I would think that he could've written just as good a song without using the n-word. With NWA I think they were trying to make a point when they used the n-word.

Lest we forget, at the time Dre released 2001, he was one of the biggest, most powerful and most influential people in hip-hop and was more businessman than gangsta. It's not like this was protest music, like when he was with NWA.

But with 2001, they're all good songs. So I still like them. But if I was pressed to make some statement about whether I think it would be best if Dre did not use the n-word on 2001, I would probably say yes. It's hard to say for definite, of course - maybe all this 'reclaiming the word' has been helpful in some way I can't really see or appreciate.  He could've just said mofuggas or something if he wanted to sound mean.

On the other hand, maybe part of me thinks that it could be a good thing that the word is becoming meaningless. But then I would also argue that it's fine for white people to say it in the context of a song. And I don't think I'd get much traction here with that argument - even less traction than I'm getting now.

[JaDanketies]

Well if you combine those two you get the question Should black people use the n word in a frivolous lyrical context?

I feel like people are reluctant to actually grapple with this because they would view it as 'white people telling black people what to do.'

Hate to say it guys, but Drake is a lot more powerful than you. It ain't punching down.

[Harpo Speaks]

If it's specifically the word that's the issue, then it's true of other instances, frivolous or otherwise, where a white audience is exposed to the word. Not specific to hip-hop.

If it's about lazy writing in commercial hip-hop then it seems odd to highlight the use of the word, when clearly the problem is more to do with a lack of complexity in terms of execution and also what the song is saying generally. Or that it is saying nothing to be more precise.

EDIT: Responding to bgmts and before your reply JaDanketies

[JaDanketies]

If it's about lazy writing in commercial hip-hop then it seems odd to highlight the use of the word, when clearly the problem is more to do with a lack of complexity in terms of execution and also what the song is saying generally. Or that it is saying nothing to be more precise.

I guess it's bad enough that it is a rap song about nothing. But it's another nail in the coffin that it is frivolously using a word that causes massive offence to people. 

Like I said, it's not my biggest problem with the Drake song. It's just the only criticism that I have about it that would make well-meaning people say, "hold up - you can't complain about that!"