Black rappers that use 'the n word'

[chveik]

I still have no fucking clue what the argument is about.

[JaDanketies]

I still have no fucking clue what the argument is about.

can't it merely be a discussion

[The Mollusk]

Necro loves to talk about killing f-words in that song you mentioned, doesn't he? Three times he says it. No wonder you like rapping along to it so much you weird closeted bigot.

[JaDanketies]

Necro loves to talk about killing f-words in that song you mentioned, doesn't he? Three times he says it. No wonder you like rapping along to it so much you weird closeted bigot.

You sure this thread didn't make you mad?

Like I said earlier, I have actually directly confronted Necro (on the internet) about his homophobia, so much so as to have been blocked by him. I ain't even contacted Drake about using the n-word.  You having a go at me is absolute meaningless horseshit. If you've got a problem with Necro's tiresome homophobia - which he's still doing a decade after other rappers stopped - maybe you ought to take it up with him. Like what I did.

You even admitted that you don't rap along with Tupac when he talks about that's why I fucked your bitch you fat motherfucker. Do you even like rap?

[phantom_power]

I guess it's bad enough that it is a rap song about nothing. But it's another nail in the coffin that it is frivolously using a word that causes massive offence to people. 

Do you think that word causes offence to black people, generally speaking, when black people say it?

[JaDanketies]

Do you think that word causes offence to black people, generally speaking, when black people say it?

You might need to put it in context. For instance, maybe nobody cares about Drake saying it. But maybe if some black person described another black person as it, they would be offended or assume it was intended to cause offence. I would think that you wouldn't be offended if you said it to describe a personal friend.

Like imagine if your friend said to you, "what's up cracker?" You wouldn't care less. If some random white person on the street described you as a cracker unprovoked, you would assume they were intending to cause offense. If you get offended by strangers trying to be offensive towards you, then you are probably a weirdo


.... kinda like Kendrick Lamaar getting offended when the white girl he brought up to sing along with his song said the n-word, except for that is even more weirdo

[earl_sleek]

This is a conversation

[Utter Shit]

I would say that Dre would get a pass when he was with NWA, but my peers and I would listen to 2001 all the time (and still do). And it definitely helped to normalise the n-word. I guess I'm approaching this through a utilitarianism perspective (?) - does Dre using the n-word provide more good to the world than harm? And I would think that he could've written just as good a song without using the n-word. With NWA I think they were trying to make a point when they used the n-word.

I was 14 when Forgot About Dre came out, probably the peak 'risk' age from your point of view in that I was old enough to be interested in hip-hop and not have my parents overseeing my musical tastes, but young and impressionable enough to potentially be affected by what it said. There was never a point when I was unaware that I, as a white person, was not allowed to say that word. The word wasn't normalised in the least, the context was clear even at that age - it was 'their' word, that they had reclaimed, and it was different for a white person to be saying it. Eminem's debut album came out a couple of years prior to 2001, and featured a track where he describes in graphic detail the murder of his girlfriend. It didn't normalise murder.

If a younger person was hearing it and that word became normalised to them, there are plenty of issues I would consider before "should black people be saying that word?". Why is such a young person listening to unedited versions of songs featuring offensive language? Did they understand the meaning of the word? Did they understand the differing contexts that make it inappropiate for a white person to use it? Did they understand that the reclamation of the word potentially makes it justifiable for black people to use it, but that there are different views on that issue within black society? If they didn't understand any of those things, why wasn't someone educating them?

If your argument against the use of that word extends beyond artistic merit (which is a legitimate criticism, it can be used lazily, though no more than many other words, phrases or topics) and into a moral issue, I really think you need to ask yourself why you're upset about it. If it matters to you that you're not allowed to use that word, ask yourself whether you would want to if you were allowed, and if so, why.

[JaDanketies]

If your argument against the use of that word extends beyond artistic merit (which is a legitimate criticism, it can be used lazily, though no more than many other words, phrases or topics) and into a moral issue, I really think you need to ask yourself why you're upset about it. If it matters to you that you're not allowed to use that word, ask yourself whether you would want to if you were allowed, and if so, why.

The only context I would 'want' to use the N-word in is when discussing the politics of the n-word or when rapping along to a song. I would imagine it's self-explanatory why I would 'want' to use the n-word in both of those contexts but I'm happy to explain if you need me to.

Do you feel like your fellow 14-year-olds also thought it was wrong for them to say the word when rapping along with a song? And that none of them ever did? Certainly not my experience.  When I was a teenager, white kids said it to other white kids all the time. When I went to a Catholic college there were some kids there who were right racists and they used it in pejorative contexts, and I think Dre making them familiar with the word would've exacerbated it.

[Endicott]

You even admitted that you don't rap along with Tupac when he talks about that's why I fucked your bitch you fat motherfucker. Do you even like rap?

There are some implications from this and other things you've said in previous posts

1. If you like rap then you will sing along to it, and you will do so out loud
2. If you like rap then you must like Tupac
3. It's perfectly acceptable to swear at a baby, so long as it gets them off to sleep

These are all so ridiculously stupid that I can't believe that you hold them in good faith. Maybe it's only Mollusk that you're trying to troll here, but really I'm afraid that your claim to be serious lacks credibility.

[Utter Shit]

I can only speak for myself, and even then my memories are hazy, but I think I would have been comfortable rapping along and including that word if I was on my own, because I knew that my understanding of context was sound and my use of it affected nothing. And probably because it would seem quite weird to self-censor for the benefit of nobody when I was on my own.

I wouldn't have felt comfortable including it if I was with others, whether white or black, because I wouldn't want to offend anyone nor make someone think that I thought the word was acceptable. My desire not to be a dickhead, or to be seen to be a dickhead, outweighs my desire to accurately repeat lyrics and the principle of "well if they can say it, why can't I?". Again it comes back to the same question I asked - why would I feel like I should be allowed to say it? I don't need to use it, and if me using it upsets others, accidentally or not, then I just won't use it. It isn't a big decision.

Tangentially related, I make hip-hop beats and a while ago had a moral issue over whether, as a white man, it was acceptable for me to sample vocals that used that word. I wasn't sure (it was the original artist's vocal, but it was my creative use of it), so I asked a few people I trusted and the general feeling was that while they knew my intentions would be genuine, nothing more than a creative choice of a sample that fitted nicely with what I was trying to create, people who didn't know me wouldn't have that context and would likely be uncomfortable with me using it (if they knew I was white). So I ditched it and found another sample.

It was no more complicated a decision than that - me being 'allowed' to use that word was outweighed by me not wanting to antagonise, and with so many other possibilities available to me, there was no reason for me to fight my corner, even if I thought it was reasonable or justifiable. And if black people tell me it isn't reasonable or justifiable, then that's good enough for me - their opinions are more educated than mine, more experienced than mine, basically more relevant than mine.

[Ferris]

I have actually directly confronted Necro (on the internet)

Huge laugh from me.

I have no idea what this thread's about. As the owner/operator of a toddler, at bedtime I usually read 3 Thomas the Tank Engine books (Thomas Looks Up, Wave Goodbye to Thomas, and the other one) then sing the first 4 verses of Baby Beluga. Using that template, we typically make it through the evening without Necro or racial epithets but then I've always been a square.

[bgmnts]

Have you read him the Thomas book where he discusses the moral implications of the n word with George?

[jobotic]

There are some implications from this and other things you've said in previous posts

1. If you like rap then you will sing along to it, and you will do so out loud
2. If you like rap then you must like Tupac
3. It's perfectly acceptable to swear at a baby, so long as it gets them off to sleep

These are all so ridiculously stupid that I can't believe that you hold them in good faith. Maybe it's only Mollusk that you're trying to troll here, but really I'm afraid that your claim to be serious lacks credibility.

Yeah quite.

I do wake my daughter up by rapping along to Big L though.

[The Mollusk]

SIGH

The only context I would 'want' to use the N-word in is when discussing the politics of the n-word or when rapping along to a song.

You can remove the inverted commas. You definitely do want to use the n-word in those contexts (and maybe beyond?), but you're not allowed to, and that seems to really bother you.

Your argument, although retaining its utterly bizarre fundamental points, keeps going round in circles which are gradually spiralling both outwards and inwards. They spiral outwards in the sense that you keep defying my expectations of just how convoluted and strange your opinions can be, and they spiral inwards because they seem to be coming closer and closer to the singular point that, as I previously said, you are a closeted bigot in the making, and you need to confront that and nip in the bud. You seem to be confused but ultimately the way you've expressed yourself in this thread points quite directly to that basic principle.

You're all over the shop with your viewpoints and I think that if you can't properly articulate yourself, and everyone else here is continuously and succinctly pointing at the holes in your bucket from which your logic is perpetually leaking, you should probably consider the distinct possibility that your credibility in this discussion is fallible and you are wrong. You have commented more than once that you wouldn't be comfortable raising this discussion with a black person or people, and I think that alone is highly indicative of my point. Your stance is not watertight because you appear to be scared of broaching the subject with all parties on an honest, human level, when I think most black people would probably be totally at ease discussing it with you.

But hey, I've been saying all of this from the very start and you don't seem to be able to accept it.

[Ferris]

Have you read him the Thomas book where he discusses the moral implications of the n word with George?

It's a slur and there really isn't any good reason to use it. If some famous rapper wants to go for it and their audience allow it then that's their lookout, regardless of ethnicity. I can't police the world's usage of a word, and to be honest I wouldn't want to - it's not my place, especially as it isn't a slur aimed at me.

Personally, I wouldn't dream of saying it loud under any context because there's just no scenario where that would make sense to me. I do a mumble if I'm rapping along to hip hop (which I wisely do in private) and a word I'm not comfortable with comes up.

To your point - Harold the Helicopter is white so it's definitely off limits for him. Thomas is blue so the jury's out.

[BeardFaceMan]

Do you think that word causes offence to black people, generally speaking, when black people say it?

Yes, the older generation of black Americans hate that the young generation use that word and would rather they didnt.

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

From an article on the NFL attempting to ban said word's use

If there is one thing certain about the modern n-word — a shifty organism that has managed to survive on these shores for hundreds of years by lurking in dark corners, altering its form, splitting off into a second specimen and constantly seeking out new hosts, all the while retaining its basic and vile DNA — it is that it defies black-and-white interpretations and hard-and-fast rules.

The word is too essential as an urban slang term to be placed in a casket and buried, as NAACP delegates attempted to do in a 2007 mock "funeral" for the word. It is too ingrained in youth culture to be eliminated from city streets, as the New York City Council attempted with a symbolic resolution banning the word the same year. And more than likely, it will prove too complex and nuanced to be policed by football referees wielding yellow flags and penalties. Never mind the troublesome optics of a group of mostly white NFL executives dictating the language rules of a majority-black player pool.

If anything, in 2014, it is the very notion of banning the n-word that appears dead and fit for burial. It was a long and noble fight, waged largely — but not exclusively — by an older generation for which the word is inseparable from the brutality into which it was born. If there is still a meaningful n-word debate left to have, it is over context, ownership and the degree to which it should be tethered to its awful history — or set free from it.

A word that is used 500,000 times a day on Twitter — as "nigga" is, according to search data on the social media analytics Web site Topsy.com — is almost by definition beyond banning. By comparison, "bro" and "dude" — two of the terms with which the n-word is synonymous to many people younger than 35 — are used 300,000 and 200,000 times, respectively. For many of this generation, the word is tossed around unthinkingly, no more impactful than a comma.

_{https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2014/11/09/the-n-word-an-entrenched-racial-slur-now-more-prevalent-than-ever/}

[Shit Good Nose]

I did once shout "CUNT!!" at the top of my voice when some idiot pulled out of a side road without looking and would have ploughed straight into the side of me had I reacted just a tad slower.  Little Nose was in the car with me and immediately repeated it, but fortunately she was still at an age where she wasn't retaining much unless it was repeated a lot (28 she was, etc).

So now our bedtime read is the transcript of Derek & Clive's This Bloke Came Up To Me.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Yes, the older generation of black Americans hate that the young generation use that word and would rather they didnt.

Samuel L Jackson notwithstanding

I think there's also an issue of telling groups what they should/shouldn't say/be offended by, which can run along the same lines as the Little Britain character who invites the black friends over and is telling them what they like or getting offended on their behalf by something they might not personally be offended by.

[idunnosomename]

Black people will rap what I tell them to rap!

[jobotic]

I did once shout "CUNT!!" at the top of my voice when some idiot pulled out of a side road without looking and would have ploughed straight into the side of me had I reacted just a tad slower.  Little Nose was in the car with me and immediately repeated it, but fortunately she was still at an age where she wasn't retaining much unless it was repeated a lot (28 she was, etc).

So now our bedtime read is the transcript of Derek & Clive's This Bloke Came Up To Me.

When my son was about two I was walking in town with him on my shoulders just before we ended up with a Ukip MP - there was Kipper bus driving round with their campaigners waving to us adoring fans.

I lost it a bit and shouted FUCK OFF at the top of my voice and walked off shaking. He later told his mum that "daddy really hates buses, they make him really angry".


You can read more stories like this in next week's Take A Break.

[JaDanketies]

I can only speak for myself, and even then my memories are hazy, but I think I would have been comfortable rapping along and including that word if I was on my own, because I knew that my understanding of context was sound and my use of it affected nothing. And probably because it would seem quite weird to self-censor for the benefit of nobody when I was on my own.

I wouldn't have felt comfortable including it if I was with others, whether white or black, because I wouldn't want to offend anyone nor make someone think that I thought the word was acceptable. My desire not to be a dickhead, or to be seen to be a dickhead, outweighs my desire to accurately repeat lyrics and the principle of "well if they can say it, why can't I?". Again it comes back to the same question I asked - why would I feel like I should be allowed to say it? I don't need to use it, and if me using it upsets others, accidentally or not, then I just won't use it. It isn't a big decision.

I think that accurately reflects my feelings on the matter. If I'm by myself - or with an infant that can't understand language - then I would not self-censor. If I was in the company of others and fortunate enough to be singing along to a song with them (feels like a distant memory nowadays) then I would not use it. And I wouldn't use it in a sample or anything else, if I was a songwriter.

If I was having this conversation with people I know, and who were adults and I could assume would take my statements in good faith (looking at you, Mollusk), then I would not say 'the n-word' as many times as I have here. In fact we've missed out the whole 'hard r' aspect of the n-word in rap music, probably entirely because we've just been calling it the n-word, and doing so makes it more difficult to have a full conversation about it.

I've had a conversation with polite progressive lefties, which also involved gay people and South Asians, about this subject (and also p*ki and f*ggot) and there was some disagreement about whether it was 'ok' to use the uncensored word when talking about the politics of the word. I can't recall any of the South Asians or gay people being opposed to using it when talking about the word itself - and I remember some said it was okay in contexts like this - but some of the yts were opposed.

Of course, there was never any assumption irl that people who did think that there were contexts when it was okay to use these derogatory slurs were all hateful bigoted racists. You'd give them the benefit of the doubt. I only see this assumption on the internet.

Oh and Mollusk, I would happily talk about this with black people. If it was an honest continuation of the conversation. I just said I wouldn't try to force a discussion about the n-word next time I sit down with some black people. As you can see above, I had the same conversation with gay people and South Asians.  I'm curious as to what holes you think have been poked in my argument?

[JaDanketies]

It's a slur and there really isn't any good reason to use it. If some famous rapper wants to go for it and their audience allow it then that's their lookout, regardless of ethnicity. I can't police the world's usage of a word, and to be honest I wouldn't want to - it's not my place, especially as it isn't a slur aimed at me.

And again, I'm not 'policing' the word. Merely talking about it and expressing my preferences about its use. Do you think this whole discussion is off-limits?

I can tell ya my dad would've reacted exactly like a black person hearing the n-word from a white person if he heard an Englishman use the word 'paddy'. But I guess that 'paddy' is on the acceptable level of bigoted language nowadays, in that it would be absolutely fine for people to discuss the politics of the word 'paddy' while using the full word, whereas 'p*ki', 'f*ggot', 'n-word' are on the unacceptable side. I wonder why that is?

You could say that Irish people are white - but so are many gay people. You could say that Irish people don't get assaulted for being Irish (any more) - cos my dad certainly was assaulted for being Irish. You could say that the Irish have been less brutalised by the British than South Asians and black people - if you don't know your history. Or you could say that Irish people don't get much shit any more these days, especially in comparison with Muslim South Asians - which is true.

I guess on the corollary, you could say that anti-Irish bigotry is still okay, and that's why paddy is okay to say uncensored. That we have not had a reckoning with our anti-Irish history or culture. I dunno. I do know that when yanks bring up the Irish in discussions of bigotry, they get a lot of rolled eyes. Perhaps the black American story is getting a bit enmeshed with the Black British story? And that's why we say 'the n-word is their word', even though black people in the UK don't seem to call each other the n-word. 

[JaDanketies]

I have no idea what this thread's about.

It's about whatever you want it to be about! :)

I wonder when my little one will first say the n-word and where they'll learn it? I'd feel responsible if all the words to Forgot About Dre are hidden in his brain somewhere

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

I just have Legitimate Concerns

[The Mollusk]

jesus christ dude

[Ferris]

It's about whatever you want it to be about! :)

I wonder when my little one will first say the n-word and where they'll learn it? I'd feel responsible if all the words to Forgot About Dre are hidden in his brain somewhere

I now have even less of an idea what this thread's about. I'll stop checking in now and leave you to it, I don't think this ones for me.

[ProvanFan]

Is JaDanketies... Count Dankula?

[bgmnts]

Yes, the older generation of black Americans hate that the young generation use that word and would rather they didnt.

Pretty sure Richard Pryor stopped using the word at some point in his career.