Black rappers that use 'the n word'

[The Mollusk]

It's actually a parody of this comic, which I would have posted because it's fucking great but the slur word unfortunately cheapens it

edit: yay, three pages of this shite

[ProvanFan]

Cabbaz Wit Attitudes

[jobotic]

JaDanketies isn't a troll I don't think, based on their contributions on other threads.

This is a bit rum though.

[BeardFaceMan]

Just stick to Chris Rock's Dr Dre rules and you'll be fine.

[madhair60]

Mollusk; I feel like you're being a touch harsh on JaDanketies here, and I realise I invite myself for similar response in saying that. I feel like discussion of this is basically being treated as completely unacceptable, and I think it's quite an interesting question. I'm inclined to say I don't know how I feel about it, besides knowing that it's not really up to me to have an opinion on the matter, if that makes sense. I wonder how much of it is that the discussion is being framed by the wrong kind of people and how much of the desire to transgress with that sort of language is rebellion and how much is just convenience and hip-hop tropes. I DUNNO!! If it helps, I really enjoyed The Boondocks. Thanks

[thenoise]

Don't give a fuck about rap music, but i hated John Lennon 'Woman is the..' from the minute I first heard it, absolute cringefest. The naughty word bit isn't even the worst line, to follow it up with a patronising 'think about it' is the icing on this very shitty cake. I've just thought about it, John, and I think you're not being nearly as smart as you think you are.

I absolutely love that he asked a black politician for special permission to put the n word in his song. I hope he saw the funny side.

[The Mollusk]

Mollusk; I feel like you're being a touch harsh on JaDanketies here, and I realise I invite myself for similar response in saying that. I feel like discussion of this is basically being treated as completely unacceptable, and I think it's quite an interesting question. I'm inclined to say I don't know how I feel about it, besides knowing that it's not really up to me to have an opinion on the matter, if that makes sense. I wonder how much of it is that the discussion is being framed by the wrong kind of people and how much of the desire to transgress with that sort of language is rebellion and how much is just convenience and hip-hop tropes. I DUNNO!! If it helps, I really enjoyed The Boondocks. Thanks

I don't think I've been harsh. From the very start, I've been questioning exactly how much leg room white people have in this debate (and I'd still argue that the leg room is VERY LITTLE) but JaDanketies has continuously either avoided valid points I've made or danced a merry jig around accountability on what is a very clear-cut subject on race issues.

Obviously I have been drawn into contradicting myself by actively engaging in a debate I don't think that I belong in, but what am I supposed to do, not stand up for what I believe is right? Never in a million years would I wish to be labelled as a white man taking credit for outlining the virtues or struggles of black culture, but the OP and every other post he's made in this thread has sounded, to me, totally fucking wrong. My opinion is that we (white people) don't deserve to have an opinion on the matter. But if someone keeps throwing bait into the water, you feel the need to bite and say why you disagree. I don't think my responses in this thread have been unjustified.

I do still think the OP is trolling here, though, since his posts suddenly took an increasingly idiotic and provocative swerve towards the end. Absolutely no one sings Forgot About Dre to their child as a lullaby, especially since the song I originally brought into the debate was Still D.R.E., which he either switched unknowingly by being an idiot, or did on purpose to continue to obfuscate the discussion (guess which one I think happened?).

[Shit Good Nose]

Don't give a fuck about rap music, but i hated John Lennon 'Woman is the..' from the minute I first heard it, absolute cringefest. The naughty word bit isn't even the worst line, to follow it up with a patronising 'think about it' is the icing on this very shitty cake. I've just thought about it, John, and I think you're not being nearly as smart as you think you are.

I absolutely love that he asked a black politician for special permission to put the n word in his song. I hope he saw the funny side.

Not even the worst racist in...The Plastic Ono Band.

HA!  Bet you thought I was going to say The Beatles.

[The Mollusk]

Don't give a fuck about rap music, but i hated John Lennon 'Woman is the..' from the minute I first heard it, absolute cringefest. The naughty word bit isn't even the worst line, to follow it up with a patronising 'think about it' is the icing on this very shitty cake. I've just thought about it, John, and I think you're not being nearly as smart as you think you are.

I absolutely love that he asked a black politician for special permission to put the n word in his song. I hope he saw the funny side.

I could just lash out another diatribe about how John Lennon was a privileged cunt, a white man speaking on behalf of women and non-white people everywhere. But isn't that exactly what I've done throughout this thread? Of course it is. But that's only in response to someone who feigns ignorance and spews the absolute classic "I was only asking questions". We've all been victim to that rhetoric.

I'm definitely the fool, though. I mean, the OP is a Primus fan. Who could wish to be cooler than that?

[non capisco]

I wasn't trolling

Fair enough, in which case

I think if the slur refers to you, you can use it however you want.

^ That pretty much sums it up and is an answer to your initial question. The slur didn't refer to Lennon, he was misusing it to make a facile political point without ever personally experiencing the weight of that word and feeling excoriated and dehumanised by it on a daily basis. The black artists you mention will have felt the weight of that slur throughout their lives and will continue to do so within our still racist society, whatever your subjective opinion on their art is. They're free to use it however they want to, a white artist absolutely isn't unless they're being very careful.[nb]Bob Dylan in the anti-racist song 'Hurricane'? Stewart Lee in his political correctness routine? I dunno.[/nb] It ain't a level playing field.

[The Mollusk]

If the N-word was a shorthand for "wife of a sanctimonious humourless twat" then he would have been given full license to use the word in that song. It's a funny old world!

[non capisco]

I just can't believe it turns out he actually wrote a worse song than fucking 'Imagine'.

[Sin Agog]

I don't know about any of this woman is the hard r of the world business, but I do know that Lennon's guitar playing on Yoko's Why is worth more than General Mike Patton's entire career of clodhopping Zornisms.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_cwuRmjhsY

(Think I might have mentally conflated this discussion with a similar one afoot in the Cred Thread).

[non capisco]

Your mum's a clodhopping Zornism.

[Sin Agog]

No she isn't. At least not anymore. What the fuck, man!?

[ajsmith2]

If the N-word was a shorthand for "wife of a sanctimonious humourless twat" then he would have been given full license to use the word in that song. It's a funny old world!

Stepping back into this to say that describing Lennon as 'humourless' is way off base. I was on board with all the other criticisms of his naive political posturing, but it's just a fact that he was a naturally comedically disposed individual (whether you liked his humour or not is a seperate issue) and I feel it undermines your point to so lightly throw that in on top with much more valid statements. The po-faced 'Imagine/Peace/misattributed life advice quotes in italics' shorthand (although he undoubtedly propagated it) of the man was likely entirely a construct and at most but one microdot of the many personas and attitudes he had and held and I don't see it as even remotely defining him. Self mockery and a sense of the ridiculous ran far deeper through him than any of the political hats he ever wore.

To take the edge off the above (itself pretty humourless ironically) paragraph, I thought I'd share the fact I recently discovered that Button Moon first aired on the same day Lennon was killed. It's true folks!

[thenoise]

I think Lennon is allowed to say wifebeating twat. But I have to say W-word B-word T-word? I'm so confused.

[JaDanketies]

the idea that I can't hold a negative opinion about one particular lyric that's piped into my child's ears by virtue of my race is ludicrous. As is the idea that kids who rap along to it are committing some cardinal sin and ought to know better. If some black mother was in here making the same argument, you'd be willing to listen to them - but not agree?

I'd say this is an example of when leftist orthodoxy becomes a nonsense. And it might look like everyone disagrees with me here but I think the wider populace would have a lot more understanding. "I don't like it when rappers are rapping trashy nonsense about n******s and bitches" would probably be how the average joe would conceptualise the issue. And they wouldn't strawman this preference to mean that 'I, Mr Average Joe, am telling Drake what to rap about.'

[jobotic]

the idea that I can't hold a negative opinion about one particular lyric that's piped into my child's ears by virtue of my race is ludicrous. As is the idea that kids who rap along to it are committing some cardinal sin and ought to know better. If some black mother was in here making the same argument, you'd be willing to listen to them - but not agree?

I'd say this is an example of when leftist orthodoxy becomes a nonsense. And it might look like everyone disagrees with me here but I think the wider populace would have a lot more understanding. "I don't like it when rappers are rapping trashy nonsense about n******s and bitches" would probably be how the average joe would conceptualise the issue. And they wouldn't strawman this preference to mean that 'I, Mr Average Joe, am telling Drake what to rap about.'

Yeah okay, trolling.

[JaDanketies]

yeah not trolling

it's no wonder that the fash are rising tbh if the 'you must not divert from this viewpoint if you are anti-racist' ideology is so dumb. It's kinda like you've been told 'it's our word' so much that you think:

• it is wrong for a white person to have an opinion about the merit of lyrics that are all about the n-word
• white kids will intrinsically know they're not allowed to say this word
• if they do say it, it's a moral failing on their part
• the person who wrote the lyric for white kids to listen to has no responsibility for white kids repeating it
• white people can make literally any criticism about any aspect of rap music, except for this one, which they are forbidden from holding anything other than an entirely-supportive opinion of

I believe that a sizable chunk if not the majority of black parents would dislike rap music having the n-word in it for no reason, and they would not want their kids to call each-other the n-word or to be encouraged to do so.

Anyway I guess to some extent I'm pleased that I've found something that progressive lefties disagree with me so much about. I guess I feel like my opinions are my own opinions rather than that I've merely swallowed an ideology without thinking about it.

[jobotic]

Ooh it's a "state of the left" thing.

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

the idea that I can't hold a negative opinion about one particular lyric that's piped into my child's ears by virtue of my race is ludicrous.

Proper 'think of the children' slippery slope nonsense there, Dank.

it's no wonder that the fash are rising tbh if the 'you must not divert from this viewpoint if you are anti-racist' ideology is so dumb.

Come on mate.

[chveik]

Ooh it's a "state of the left" thing.

I can't fucking stand it. it's everywhere now, and this forum certainly is no exception. is it some kind of collective midlife crisis?

[The Mollusk]

I believe that a sizable chunk if not the majority of black parents would dislike rap music having the n-word in it for no reason, and they would not want their kids to call each-other the n-word or to be encouraged to do so.

Anyway I guess to some extent I'm pleased that I've found something that progressive lefties disagree with me so much about. I guess I feel like my opinions are my own opinions rather than that I've merely swallowed an ideology without thinking about it.

It's so nice of you to come down off your hand-wringing Stop the War Coalition vegan Corbynite high horse and speak to us on behalf of black people. Especially since you're such a busy husband and parent piping "bitch" and the n-word into your wife and child's ears 24 hours a day. Where do you find the time?

[bgmnts]

I personally think nobody should use the n word because it's so fucking nasty but ho hum.

[Shit Good Nose]

Stepping back into this to say that describing Lennon as 'humourless' is way off base. I was on board with all the other criticisms of his naive political posturing, but it's just a fact that he was a naturally comedically disposed individual (whether you liked his humour or not is a seperate issue) and I feel it undermines your point to so lightly throw that in on top with much more valid statements. The po-faced 'Imagine/Peace/misattributed life advice quotes in italics' shorthand (although he undoubtedly propagated it) of the man was likely entirely a construct and at most but one microdot of the many personas and attitudes he had and held and I don't see it as even remotely defining him. Self mockery and a sense of the ridiculous ran far deeper through him than any of the political hats he ever wore.

Agreed.  I am no fan at all of the Beatles or Lennon himself, but just because he (rightly or wrongly) "made a stand against ISSUES" in his later years doesn't mean he was humourless - he was famous for his sense of humour wasn't he? (rhetorical)  All those shows he was on where he played along.  All the films.  The "Beatles are bigger than Jesus" was said in jest before it was taken out of context, was it not?

(Although, I put it to the jury that Ringo had the best comedy chops of all of them - a great physical comedian as well [cf. Help])

[The Mollusk]

I was pissed as fuck when I wrote that "humourless" comment last night. It was misguided but it doesn't really warrant this much of a reaction, honestly.

[Shit Good Nose]

I was pissed as fuck when I wrote that "humourless" comment last night. It was misguided but it doesn't really warrant this much of a reaction, honestly.

Language outrage in the UK.

[The Mollusk]

Language outrage in the UK.

I'm gonna make you wish you never said that (that, that).

[JaDanketies]

I personally think nobody should use the n word because it's so fucking nasty but ho hum.

not even Drake?! BUT IT'S HIS WORD!

I think you're the closest to my viewpoint here, you're the closest to saying it's a bad thing for some pop-rap trash to have the n-word sprinkled throughout it for zero reason. I would say it was okay for MLK to say it when he said this:

I never will forget one night very late. It was around midnight... the telephone started ringing and I picked it up. On the other end was an ugly voice. That voice said to me, in substance, "N******, we are tired of you and your mess now. And if you aren't out of this town in three days, we're going to blow your brains out and blow up your house." I'd heard these things before, but for some reason that night it got to me.

I also think that me censoring it there with asterisks was pointless.