Red Dwarf rewatch

[idunnosomename]

He probably would've been up for it for mates rates, but maybe they sent him the script

[St_Eddie]

I hate the fact that the personification of Death was used as a character in VIII, it pushes Red Dwarf into straight-up Fantasy rather than Sci-Fi.

RIMMER: (Pointing at the pipe) Ah, Lister, what's that for?
LISTER: I'm going out like I came in -- screaming and kicking.
RIMMER: You can't whack death on the head!

No, apparently you can, Rimmer.

[Excellent_Biscuits]

Can't wait for the next time you're aghast at comedy

[St_Eddie]

Can't wait for the next time you're aghast at comedy

It's a comedy forum for discussing and picking apart comedy, or in the case of Red Dwarf series VIII; it's a forum for discussing and picking apart anti-comedy.

Probably a stupid question, (either because they never addressed it or cause they did and I forgot/never paid attention to the relevant episodes)  but in the Dave series is the resurrected RD/original crew still presumed to still be floating out there somewhere?

They are and Doug Naylor has gone on record as to the possibility of finding out what happened to them in a future special (à la The Promised Land).  Yes, folks.  There's a distinct possibility of the further adventures of Kill Crazy and Denis the Doughnut Boy.  Lawd help us.

[Excellent_Biscuits]

Yes sorry I was rather drunk last night and I don't even remember writing any of the last 20 hours.

I can't really make out what my last comment even meant.

Thanks for being a good sport.

[Slingback Synapse]

I did come across this 30 minute fan edit of Pete. Can't be arsed watching it myself but throwing it out there for anyone who fancies a go:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp3ypi

I've just watched this and, while condensing it doesn't improve it much, it doesn't lose much from cutting out half the run-time, and it mercifully shortens the interminable scene with Hollister ("Do you know what happens...?") that remains my abiding memory of series 8, and always made me think better of re-watching it.

What it cannot remedy, however, is probably the single greatest irritation for me.

The idea of Red Dwarf - the entire premise on which the situation is predicated - is that Lister was put into stasis for refusing to hand over the cat that he had brought onto the ship, so that it could be killed, dissected and tested.

Leaving aside the fact that the use of stasis as a punishment is redundant given that they apparently have a big prison on board, and that, if it were to be used in this way, it would be far more appropriate to use it for for those criminals who were actually dangerous, why is it, apparently, fine for an inmate to have a pet bird? For me, this typifies everything that was wrong with series 8 - the writers didn't care about logic, sense, continuity or the show in which we had invested, and were happy to trample over these in order to get a cheap laugh, and yet, despite this, the laughs, such as they were, were still shit and over-priced.

Similarly, it makes sense that a couple of psychopathic inmates would not be able to operate the time wand, despite the fact that the others seem fine with it, until one remembers that a couple of weeks before, they were capable of re-programming Kryten to film the women's showers.

The whole series just comes across as lazy and sloppy, and the best I can say about it is that it does, at least, make one appreciate series 10-12 if you watch them in sequence.

[thr0b]

Re Stasis: the punishment is that if you're in stasis, you're not working. As you're not working, you're not being paid. So it is a punishment for the workers, as they go in, come out three months later (or whatever) and have lost their earnings.

To put the prisoners in stasis would not be a punishment - to them, they would serve no time, and would be out (from their points of view) a second after going in.

[Replies From View]

Well no, it wouldn't be a punishment for the prisoners to be put into stasis.  But there are only two stasis booths on board yet there is a prison zone, apparently.  So instead of punishing people by putting them into stasis, they would surely send them to the prison zone and dock their pay while they are there.

It just retroactively fucks up the gallstones of the show, basically.

[thr0b]

Nah, because punishment for something done at work doesn't make it a criminal action. Prison is for criminals.

Stasis is for punishment or long-term travel.

There's a lot wrong with RD8, but that ain't it.

[Replies From View]

well how about it's just shit for Red Dwarf to have a prison zone and Doug Naylor should be sent to stasis, but one where he ages without gaining any new experiences.

[frajer]

well how about it's just shit for Red Dwarf to have a prison zone and Doug Naylor should be sent to stasis, but one where he ages without gaining any new experiences.

From what I've read that sums up his efforts at getting the Red Dwarf film off the ground.

[thr0b]

well how about it's just shit for Red Dwarf to have a prison zone and Doug Naylor should be sent to stasis, but one where he ages without gaining any new experiences.

Yeah, I agree with that bit.

[mjwilson]

I am a long way behind this thread on rewatching, but it is so desolate when the Netflix versions of S7 start playing without laugh tracks.

[St_Eddie]

Nah, because punishment for something done at work doesn't make it a criminal action. Prison is for criminals.

If that's your counterargument, then why exactly did Hollister put Lister and co in prison for something they did at work?

For that matter, if the crew's actions were a suspected criminal act then what authority does Hollister, the Captain of a mining operation, have to act as the judge, jury and executioner of legal matters?  The prisoners in the brig were simply being transferred to an off-world prison (utilising a deep space mining vessel as a makeshift transport for efficiency's sake.  The prisoners were effectively cargo).  Hollister's jurisdiction would surely solely extend to matters relating to the employees of JMC under his supervision and his ability to terminate their employment and potentially sentence them into spending their remaining time onboard ship in stasis, should they break the terms of their contract.

Hollister would have absolutely no business in condemning employees to prison.  At most, if an employee broke the law, then he'd have the authority to either put them into stasis or place them under ship arrest, awaiting trial upon return to Earth.

[AnOrdinaryBoy]

Well no, it wouldn't be a punishment for the prisoners to be put into stasis.  But there are only two stasis booths on board yet there is a prison zone, apparently.  So instead of punishing people by putting them into stasis, they would surely send them to the prison zone and dock their pay while they are there.

It just retroactively fucks up the gallstones of the show, basically.

Isn't there something in the first book about how Lister had purposefully chosen a quarantine law as the one to break as he knew the punishment was stasis and he wanted to be put in it so he could get back to earth in what he would perceive as practically instantaneously?

[Phil_A]

The most fundamental problem of Series 8 is Doug wanting to do a Porridge-style lads in prison story but not wanting to actually think through how this could make sense in the show's universe, so we're led to believe that a prison full of violent, dangerous criminals is something that has always existed on Red Dwarf even though such a thing has never even been mentioned prior to S8, and the story logic has to bend around this.

I mean, there were ways the prison aspect could've been incorporated that might not have been so jarring. For instance, you could explain it by saying that maybe at some point JMC tried to make a bit of extra cash by selling off part of Red Dwarf's cargo hold for use as a private prison. Or even have the prison not be on Red Dwarf at all (which would make much more sense from a story point of view), maybe after making contact with humanity again the crew are accused of stealing the ship and are carted off to another prison ship while awaiting trial.

I'm not saying these are brilliant ideas, but just something with more thought put into it than what we got would be better.

[BeardFaceMan]

The most fundamental problem of Series 8 is Doug wanting to do a Porridge-style lads in prison story but not wanting to actually think through how this could make sense in the show's universe, so we're led to believe that a prison full of violent, dangerous criminals is something that has always existed on Red Dwarf even though such a thing has never even been mentioned prior to S8, and the story logic has to bend around this.

I mean, there were ways the prison aspect could've been incorporated that might not have been so jarring. For instance, you could explain it by saying that maybe at some point JMC tried to make a bit of extra cash by selling off part of Red Dwarf's cargo hold for use as a private prison. Or even have the prison not be on Red Dwarf at all (which would make much more sense from a story point of view), maybe after making contact with humanity again the crew are accused of stealing the ship and are carted off to another prison ship while awaiting trial.

I'm not saying these are brilliant ideas, but just something with more thought put into it than what we got would be better.

It honestly feels like Doug read a review of RD being "Porridge in space" and thought "Yes, I'll add some prisoners!", the thought process behind it all seems that basic.

[Mobbd]

It honestly feels like Doug read a review of RD being "Porridge in space" and thought "Yes, I'll add some prisoners!", the thought process behind it all seems that basic.

I've had the same thought. Could his interpretation of that have been so literal? Didn't he understand that Lister's situation is the prison?

[Lemming]

It does feel like he wanted to do a different show altogether. Red Dwarf's entire premise basically gets ignored the whole time. The show could be set in like 2100 or something, humanity could still be alive, the JMC could still exist back on Earth and the ship could be away on a short months-long voyage and everything outside Back In The Red would be the same.

If it wasn't for the finale of Series 7 setting this whole scenario up, I'd genuinely believe that he wrote a totally different show and quickly repurposed the scripts for Red Dwarf.

[Replies From View]

I wouldn't have minded an offshoot series of 6 episodes exploring Lister's flashbacks to before the disaster.

[Mobbd]

I wouldn't have minded an offshoot series of 6 episodes exploring Lister's flashbacks to before the disaster.

That would genuinely have been 100% better. Get Infinity on the screen already. Instead of VIII you say? Beautiful.

[Hey Kidz]

What are the Red Dwarf books that Doug and Rob wrote separately like? I listened to the audiobooks of the first two recently on the strength of this thread and enjoyed them. They're better when they diverge from the TV series though. I also liked the fleshing out of the pre-disaster Red Dwarf world that you got in the first half of the first book. The bits that are a retelling of some scene from the series aren't so interesting. Reading about the final two books, it seems like they were written when the writers had fallen out but had to fulfil a contractual obligation, so I'd assume they're not as good. Plus they're not read by Chris Barrie in the audiobooks.

[neveragain]

Grant's Backwards is loads of fun and quite affecting but Naylor's Last Human (to my mind) focused too much on some sci-fi concepts to the point of being dull and characterless.

[JamesTC]

I think both get bogged down with an unnecessary sci-fi plot. Backwards with Gunmen and Last Human with DNA. Both wisely cut out the audiobook and are better for it.

Backwards is far more gruesome than Red Dwarf has ever gone before which might put some people off. Last Human is slow to get started and has a Series VII vibe which also might put people off.

I think in many ways the books represent the way Grant and Naylor felt about the characters and show in general at the time. Backwards delivers some pretty nasty events to the characters and I really don't feel like there is an emotional payoff to it. Last Human has that emotional payoff (particularly Rimmer) even if it is a little saccharin.

[Hey Kidz]

Which is the one that starts with the Cat having sex? My uncle inappropriately bought it for me for a Christmas present when I was a child and my dad confiscated it.

[Replies From View]

What are the Red Dwarf books that Doug and Rob wrote separately like? I listened to the audiobooks of the first two recently on the strength of this thread and enjoyed them. They're better when they diverge from the TV series though. I also liked the fleshing out of the pre-disaster Red Dwarf world that you got in the first half of the first book. The bits that are a retelling of some scene from the series aren't so interesting. Reading about the final two books, it seems like they were written when the writers had fallen out but had to fulfil a contractual obligation, so I'd assume they're not as good. Plus they're not read by Chris Barrie in the audiobooks.

I think we've experienced this period of time before, sir.

[Hey Kidz]

Oh did I say this before? Sorry if I did.

[Hey Kidz]

Unless someone else already talked about this, in which case I'm not sorry.

[Replies From View]

Which is the one that starts with the Cat having sex? My uncle inappropriately bought it for me for a Christmas present when I was a child and my dad confiscated it.

How did your dad get wind of the book's inappropriateness?  Were you making noises while you read it?

[Replies From View]

Unless someone else already talked about this, in which case I'm not sorry.

Don't be sorry either way.  No threads are more designed to be repetitive than Red Dwarf ones.  We circle obsessively around the same topics and always somehow manage to come up with new things to say.  I love it.