Red Dwarf rewatch

[thr0b]

It always annoys me that whenever Holly is back, they use Norman. He CHOSE to leave. Stop rewarding his petulance.

[Replies From View]

Blade Runner was not an influence on Red Dwarf, but it's also not really our reality that they visit.

It's strange really, as we are definitely meant to take away that they came to our reality (the final scene has Kryten remarking that the hallucination they experienced would have brought the reality into being, and all the hints are that we are who they are talking about).

Except we don't live in a world where there are spurious Blade Runner references dropped in by a writer who has the power to form our reality from moment to moment.


It's weird.  They hallucinate that they are fictional and that their adventures are available on DVD.  Apart from that and Coronation Street, the remaining similarities are superficial.  It almost doesn't count as meta-fiction.

[willbo]

I think in the first novel it explained better why Lister chose not to go into stasis after seeing the future echoes, because he wanted to investigate them or something. Although that explanation works better in the novel as they don't have aimless episodic adventures for years in the novel.

[JamesTC]

Blade Runner wasn't an obvious inspiration on the early show but I guess the show in the earliest incarnation was not really what Grant Naylor imagined. The sets, the design for Red Dwarf and even the age of Lister were things that Grant Naylor didn't envision originally. Likewise the more sitcom style and eschewing away from sci-fi stories were to please the BBC.

I think if you look at Series III onwards when they start to have more influence then you can see why Blade Runner might have been an influence (though Alien always feels to me to aesthetically be the biggest). Back to Reality is probably the most Blade Runner of any episode and BTE is a sequel to it so there is that.

[Replies From View]

Blade Runner was never cited as an influence at any point by Doug Naylor or Rob Grant.  Dark Star and Alien have both been cited.

I'm sure visual elements from all kinds of sci fi films came into the show once Mel Bibby was production designer, and Blade Runner would naturally have been amongst them, but this isn't the same as any of these being an original influence on the concept.

[BeardFaceMan]

Yeah I listened to an interview with Doug recently (if you want to get your own back on Doug for series 8 just tell him that RD is a cult show, that should do it) and I don't think Blade Runner was mentioned until they talked about series 9, Dark Star and Alien were both mentioned early on though.

[Captain Z]

I remember enjoying the Coronation Street section at the time. That was probably something to do with being a somewhat-reluctant CS viewer back then, although that did give me an additional appreciation of Simon Gregson's (Steve MacDonald) cameo. He is/was one of the best actors in it, was a natural fit for light comedy storylines, and appeared to have a genuine friendship with Craig Charles both on and off-screen. If only it had been filmed a few years earlier so that Lister could have tracked down the "Master of Mayhem" on the set of Robot Wars.

Overall I was generally rolling my eyes at how much the show was having it's cake and eating it (particularly the comic book shop section) with all the meta stuff. However, the reveal of the squid saved it for me and I ended up thinking that was quite a satisfactory conclusion.

The Blade Runner homages are a bit much. In total there must be around 15 minutes of shot-for-shot recreations of bits from the film (down to the lighting and accents), such as the mask-maker and meeting with the writer, on top of the other scattered references.

[Replies From View]

For people who have never seen Blade Runner, what on earth is understood by having a man who sculpts noses?  And the crew being inexplicably aggressive towards him?


Yeah, it does suffer a tiny bit from the 'Krytie TV' logic of the character's actions being somewhat driven by the homage or reference.  In Back To Earth this can at least be hand-waved as a consequence of the squid's psychological influence, so it's not too distracting (this is also how I can overlook Kryten momentarily harking back to his shrieky series 7 self in the DVD store).

[mjwilson]

Is Back to Earth streaming anywhere? It seems to fall in the gap between Netflix and Dave.

[DrGreggles]

It seems to fall in the gap between Netflix and Dave.

More of an arse crack.

[Replies From View]

Back To Earth creates such a weird situation for anyone who might want to get into Red Dwarf for the first time.


So there's no series 9.  Call Back To Earth "series 9" if you like in order to stay sane, but nowhere official calls it that.  It's understood by fans to fill that gap but the information on the back of the DVD is the in-universe text where it talks about coming after series 9 and 10.  None of the shopping websites will put you right.


It's as if everyone making the show knows that the only people who'll be engaging with the Dave years will be people who have bothered to follow Red Dwarf on internet forums for decades. 

[JamesTC]

It has been referred to by the number on a few DVD releases in foreign countries. I can only find Japan at the moment, but I'm sure I've seen more. It has also been referred to with the number on VOD.

[Phil_A]

Oddly the meeting the writer meta-plot is something that features heavily in the novel of The Man In The High Castle, another Phillip K Dick story. It's almost like Doug wanted to do a homage to that but assumed audiences wouldn't get the reference, and so put it in a Blade Runner homage instead. Maybe.

[Replies From View]

There's been tons of metafiction using the exact same idea.  He may as well be referencing the League of Gentlemen movie for all the freshness it has.

[willbo]

And Stephen King's Dark Tower

[Avril Lavigne]

And Stranger Than Fiction.

[Replies From View]

And the Twilight Zone and


I dunno




The Enormous Crocodile

[AnOrdinaryBoy]

As someone who counts Bladerunner in his top three films of all time, I never liked the use of Bladerunner as a parody in Back to Earth even at the time. Thematically Red Dwarf and Bladerunner are so far apart that it felt too incongruous within the narrative to work for me.

[Rolf Lundgren]

I really liked all the meta stuff and turning up on Coronation Street. Could have pushed it even more for my liking. The Blade Runner references come too thick and too fast and does come across as an odd connection for RD. And I hate the fact it pretty much rips off Back to Reality. I know you're allowed to plagiarise yourself but it veers distressingly close to "It was all a dream" territory.

It's a decent feature-length episode, mini-series, whatever you want to call it though and a palate cleanser after Series 8.

It always annoys me that whenever Holly is back, they use Norman. He CHOSE to leave. Stop rewarding his petulance.

Have we ever got to the bottom of why/how Norman left in the first place? I think the official story is Norman moved to Edinburgh and didn't fancy coming down to film it any more but then there's the talk about not paying him enough money. When he talks about it on the commentaries he alludes to the fact that somebody could have done something to make him stay. And considering he's been invited back multiple times and always been involved in one way or another, he must have left on reasonably good terms.

[JamesTC]

Have we ever got to the bottom of why/how Norman left in the first place? I think the official story is Norman moved to Edinburgh and didn't fancy coming down to film it any more but then there's the talk about not paying him enough money. When he talks about it on the commentaries he alludes to the fact that somebody could have done something to make him stay. And considering he's been invited back multiple times and always been involved in one way or another, he must have left on reasonably good terms.

Both are true, from what we have heard. He was offered less money when he decided that he could no longer travel for rehearsals due to moving.

[Lemming]

S10E01 Trojan

After the intro, we get a shot of Red Dwarf drifting through space with the familiar original incidental music.

First thing's first, the set design is so fucking good. The Dave era really looks fantastic, and there's so much activity going on in the background during Lister and Cat's first scene - scrolling text on monitors, data readouts, animated diagrams. Love it.

Kryten and Rimmer's first scene revolves around Rimmer's wish to be an officer. Again, feels like a big return to S1/2 themes. These opening scenes are funny, too - Cat not understanding Lister's fun fact about moose-related car crashes and Rimmer's pitiful self-help book both get laughs.

Anyway, Red Dwarf enters the operating area of the "ALL-DROID MAIL ORDER SHOPPING STATION", which has a very late 80s/early 90s sort of style to it, I suppose to match up with the aesthetic of things like Groovy Funky Channel 27 from Better Than Life and the documentary about rich Lister from Timeslides.

The plot begins: Lister and Cat are immediately taken in by a shitty shopping channel advert and rush to place an order (hoping, I suppose, that the delivery droids are still working 3 million years into the future). There's also a derelict ship floating nearby, the Trojan, so the gang go aboard, while Lister remains on hold to the shopping channel.

Rimmer notes that his brothers served on ships like this, and becomes bitterly jealous while Lister tries to cheer him up. A little while later there's a distress call from another ship, the Columbus, which is adrift and heading towards an asteroid field - and the captain is Howard Rimmer.

Alright, yeah, it's ridiculous. The odds of meeting each other in deep space would be a trillion-trillion-trillion to one. The odds 3 million years into the future? Yeah. Kryten does give a very feeble fig-leaf explanation for this - him and Rimmer were fucking around with a "quantum rod" on board the Trojan a few seconds before Howard arrived, which "connects matter from across the universe". The idea being, I guess, that the rod either pulled Howard towards Rimmer, or the Columbus to the Trojan, given that they're the same class of ship (or are they?). It's all bollocks that's barely even trying to make sense, but I'm liking the episode enough so far to go along with something that's quite clearly bullshit.

Rimmer decides to hold off on responding to the distress call - the quantum rod could take them to the Columbus in an instant, but Rimmer can't face Howard as a shitty Second Technician, so he plans to rush back to Red Dwarf, complete the astronavigation exam that he's spend the last 20-odd years failing at, become an officer, and then rush to Howard's rescue.

We get a bunk scene where Rimmer's trying to revise while Lister's still on hold to the shopping channel. Lister offers to help with a lateral thinking puzzle and, by chance, it's about a moose-induced car crash, the type which Lister was telling everyone about earlier.

The whole scene is just joyous. "Ah, Kryten. Lateral thinking puzzle - just got it myself." It's a new direction for the show which takes a lot of S1/2 and blends it with a lot of S3-6 and stirs in its own unique style too. It's all a bit pantomimey and over the top, but when you accept that this is the latest in an endless chain of soft reboots, it really works. I love the Rimmer and Cat interaction, something we hardly ever get in Red Dwarf. The scene even ends with Cat doing the "aoowowowooaoh yeaaahh" thing. Feels like the characters are properly back after all this time, it's fantastic.

Anyway, Rimmer crashes due to stress. Over the course of his existence as a hologram, he's become infected with "self-created malware" caused by excessive resentment. The gang are able to fix him with a "resentment drain" which leaves him in a better state of mind. Lister again tries to cheer Rimmer up by convincing him that he doesn't have to impress Howard, but it's a no-go and Rimmer comes up with a new plan - lie about everything.

The crew don Space Corps uniforms and agree to pretend Rimmer's the captain of the Trojan. Howard - a hologram - and the only other survivor of the Columbus, a simulant named Crawford, beam aboard. Rimmer puts on an Ace-esque voice and introduces Howard to the crew.

"I like working with the underprivileged, Howard" nearly made me choke.

"The whole touch-T thing, all the different aspects, fascinating."

Rimmer gives Howard a tour of the trojan - "So, this is a corridor, windows and such... we tend to use it as a corridor" - while Lister finally gets through to a service droid, demands to complain, and gets put on hold for the complaints service.

Howard experiences a resentment crash of his own after seeing the Trojan. The crew give Howard a resentment drain, after which he admits that he's not a captain - he's a vending machine repairman, and he hid under a table while the crew of the Columbus were slaughtered. Crawford reveals that she was the one who destroyed the Columbus, due to her hatred of humans, and she holds the crew hostage at gunpoint. Lister's phone says that he's finally off hold. Despite being warned by Crawford not to move, he goes for the phone anyway, and she opens fire. Rimmer is almost hit in the crossfire, but Howard leaps in the way and is fatally shot (in the light bee, I guess - even though Legion says that hard-light* holograms can't come to harm no matter what). The crew disable Crawford by crashing her with resentment files, and then gather around Howard, who dies (...somehow. Light bee fatally damaged or something).

*It's never stated that Howard is hard light, but it's the only explanation for how Lister can touch him during the big joke where Lister has to pretend to be a telepath.

Mail arrives "from the JMC onboard computer", which has decided that Red Dwarf will be renamed the SS Howard Rimmer in his honour due to his heroic sacrifice, and he'll also be granted the highest medal of honour in the Space Corps, sending Rimmer into a mega-crash.

Everything up to and including the scene where the crew pretend to be officers is great fun. The ending's a bit all over the place - the plot (what there is of it) doesn't really resolve satisfactorily, and Howard's death isn't treated anywhere near as seriously as it should be - even with the new lighthearted tone of the Dave era, this should still be a huge deal. I do like Rimmer's utter coldness and even glee at Howard's death, though, it's a great reminder of how much of a shit Rimmer is, especially since Howard is so likeable. Ends on a high note anyway, the SS Howard Rimmer joke properly got me.

Overall it's a strong start to the new series. The plot is weak and I bet a lot of viewers will understandably not be able to get over the complete insanity of having Rimmer's brother just magically show up (as a hard-light hologram, no less), or the droid-operated shopping channel which is still running, but there's a wealth of good jokes, the characters are written well, each with really firm and well-formed voices - especially Cat, who's fantastic throughout this episode - and I really like the overall tone. The relationship between the crew is great, full of relatively good-natured jabs at each other but they feel like friends, and Lister truly comes across as amiable, funny and genuinely moral in a way he hasn't since at least Series 3 (barring the fact he got Howard shot by acting like a BIG PRICK with the phone). They actually feel like people who've been adrift alone in deep space for decades, in that they're totally comfortable with their situation and mostly just out to have fun.

It's a nice surprise because my memory of Series 10 is that it's overall very shaky with a few good bits mixed in. Which does describe this episode, I suppose, but it was a lot funnier and more entertaining than I remembered or expected it to be. Maybe the complete ridiculousness of the plot annoyed me too much the first time around, who knows.

[Shaky]

Rimmer's line about Kryten, "No, we just hosed him down and gave him a hat," is genuinely brilliant. That whole scene shows what modern Doug can do if he tries.

[Johnny Textface]

I actually haven't read the solo books.  I got Backwards as a hardback when it first came out but never got around to being arsed once series 7 and 8 had knocked the sheen off it all.

Wow

[Excellent_Biscuits]

For me the best episode of the new Dave ones by far.

The rest are aaiight, but this one I thought was just a great return to form. (Before id seen the rest obviously) Not keen on the brothers getting a complete story reset, but by now who gives a fuck I guess.

[St_Eddie]

I'm not keen on the shopping network B plot at all.  It's nonsensical both in terms of in-universe logic and in terms of Lister refusing to hang up the phone during a life and death situation.  Clearly just Doug venting his own frustrations at being held on call, in a show which doesn't really support acting as a vehicle for his frustrations.  Also; "Stir-Master"... urgh.

One part I've never understood in this episode is when Crawford injects something into her neck and smiles.  Whatsdatallabout?

"No, we just hosed him down and gave him a hat" is a fantastic line though, so fair fucks.

[markburgle]

I'm not keen on the shopping network B plot at all.  It's nonsensical both in terms of in-universe logic and in terms of Lister refusing to hang up the phone during a life and death situation.  Clearly just Doug venting his own frustrations at being held on call, in a show which doesn't really support acting as a vehicle for his frustrations.  Also; "Stir-Master"... urgh.

Also "companies keep you on hold a long time" is such a tired old bit of 80's observational humor that has no reason showing up 2012 or whatever this was

[Ornlu]

S10E01 Trojan

Hmm! Doesn't sound too bad, and I've never seen any of the Dave stuff. I might have to give this a whirl.

[Replies From View]

Also a phone-in shopping service wouldn't put you on hold forever as some kind of punishment - they'd want your sale as promptly as possible.  I genuinely think Doug has mixed them up with complaints departments.

[St_Eddie]

Another thing which bothered me about 'Trojan' was the reveal of the ship being towed via an electric tether by Red Dwarf.  It gets a huge laugh from the audience.  Why?!  Stop hysterically laughing at things which are not particularly funny, you easily pleased, sycophantic nimrods!

Also "companies keep you on hold a long time" is such a tired old bit of 80's observational humor that has no reason showing up 2012 or whatever this was

That too.  It is indeed awfully hackneyed material.

Also a phone-in shopping service wouldn't put you on hold forever as some kind of punishment - they'd want your sale as promptly as possible.  I genuinely think Doug has mixed them up with complaints departments.

You're correct, it makes no sense.  The more you think about it, the more it falls apart and as markburgle alluded to; the joke wasn't even worth it in the first place.

[willbo]

It always annoys me that whenever Holly is back, they use Norman. He CHOSE to leave. Stop rewarding his petulance.

I read on a RD discussion that Hattie Hayridge doesn't want to come back for cameos, she'd prefer to do other stuff. So she might have turned them down.