Red Dwarf rewatch

[BritishHobo]

Would Backwards be a good shout? Being the weird soft reboot-ish thing it is, it's a good introduction to the characters, and it's a fun mad sci-fi idea. Obviously as has been pointed out in this thread, there's a lot of ropey, illogical stuff in there when you think about events forward (why would the waitress hoover receipts up into a magic box?), but that might make it more fun to discuss.

[BritishHobo]

Quoting this as I'm a new page smeghead

Future Echoes.

Demons and Angels is probably the worst choice imaginable. It is entirely dependent on understanding the central characters, the high and low versions being deviations of them. It is alter-ego comedy grounded in your knowledge of the characters.

[Replies From View]

Yep, Future Echoes is a good call, definitely.  It begins with the first ever situation-summary from Holly, too.

From there, maybe Stasis Leak and Thanks For The Memory from series 2.  After that you can pretty much offer anything that isn't Demons and Angels, Back to Reality or Gunmen.

[JamesTC]

Demons and Angels is probably the worst choice imaginable. It is entirely dependent on understanding the central characters, the high and low versions being deviations of them. It is alter-ego comedy grounded in your knowledge of the characters.

In what way are any of the high and low versions deviations of the characters? They are generic caricatures of good and evil.

[Avril Lavigne]

I do think stuff like the reveal of Low Rimmer would lose a fair bit of its impact on viewers who aren't familiar with the character as there's more to that gag than it just being a generically evil Rimmer, especially the line "and then... I'm going to have you", within the context of Lister & Rimmer's established relationship. Same with how seeing Kryten as a filth-covered, psychotic kill-bot works better when you're aware of how intrinsically nice, harmless and dedicated to cleanliness he usually is.

[Replies From View]

And high-Cat basically being Danny John Jules' own Martha Graham loving self.

[willbo]

Polymorph was only the third ep I ever saw, after Queeg and Marooned. Queeg I liked the situation/tension of, but the characters, other than Holly, didn't really stand out to me, they were just Holly's victims. Marooned I liked, I suppose it could have been non sci fi, just a play about 2 mis-matched people trapped together in ice. It was with Polymorph I really felt I "got" the show and could call myself a fan.

[idunnosomename]

i would recommend Pete, part 2

[Mobbd]

In what way are any of the high and low versions deviations of the characters? They are generic caricatures of good and evil.

Low Rimmer, the main woofer of the ep, isn't inherently funny unless you just think kink is inherently funny. It's funny because Rimmer is an uptight, sex-starved collector of Twentieth Century telegraph poles. Same with the others but to a lesser extent. Same with the Highs, especially High Cat.

It's Rugged Island. It's a sitcom trope dependent on our knowledge of the characters.

I'm sure there's some stuff early in the episode to remind us of the inherent qualities of our guys before things kick off and I'm sure your book group wouldn't be totally at sea. But it's the exact opposite of ideal.

Backwards is a good shout from BritishHobo. And Willbo's suggestion of Marooned is pretty good too though they have the disadvantage of being quite atypical episodes if you're trying to sell the idea of Red Dwarf. They are nicely self-contained though.

I'm assuming you like the people in your book club. If you don't,  torture them with Can of Worms. It will be indecipherable.

EDIT: I just realised it wasn't your book club, James. Sorry, g0m! I hope you see this.

[Replies From View]

Imagine if you chose Pete Part 2 as the first episode to show people.


Really hype it up first, too.

[Lemming]

When I had to show a group of friends who'd never seen Red Dwarf before a single episode, I went with Polymorph and it was very well-received, so that'd be my advice. It's funny and fast paced, the plot and special effects are bizarre enough that they convey the "cult" (for want of a better term) charm of the show really effectively, and it's so joke-driven that you don't need to know anything about the characters. You don't even really need to know the premise of the show, just that it's a bunch of people in space. Lister and Cat are introduced perfectly well through the dinner scene, same for Kryten and Rimmer with the family videos scene.

Future Echoes would work, but the way the first series keeps sort of building on itself makes it hard to just pick one episode as a standalone thing, and Series 2 essentially requires you to have seen Series 1.

[petril]

When I had to show a group of friends who'd never seen Red Dwarf before a single episode, I went with Polymorph and it was very well-received, so that'd be my advice. It's funny and fast paced, the plot and special effects are bizarre enough that they convey the "cult" (for want of a better term) charm of the show really effectively, and it's so joke-driven that you don't need to know anything about the characters. You don't even really need to know the premise of the show, just that it's a bunch of people in space. Lister and Cat are introduced perfectly well through the dinner scene, same for Kryten and Rimmer with the family videos scene.

Future Echoes would work, but the way the first series keeps sort of building on itself makes it hard to just pick one episode as a standalone thing, and Series 2 essentially requires you to have seen Series 1.

plus with Polymorph you get to see a taste of alternate versions that doesn't rely on anything other than what you can pick up from the first few scenes. that'll be good for if they get into 'Dwarf because the first thing they'll find is everything about the alternate versions

[Avril Lavigne]

It's really bizarre to me that there seems to be a lean towards recommending episodes in which the cast aren't just playing their regular characters throughout, as an introduction to the show.

[St_Eddie]

Here's a joke like Doug Naylor would make, ahem...

A worthy attempt but you failed to truly capture the sycophantic studio audience.  Here's what it would really be like...

Rimmer (entering all huffy)

(audience:  cheers and applauds)

Kryten did you leave this lying around?  What on earth is it.  Looks like a joke page from jokes are us joke shop joke page section

(audience:  laughs)

Kryten:  yes i did sir did you look at it

(audience:  laughs)

Rimmer (reading):  what is blue and also red

(audience:  laughs)

Kryten:  and now turn the page upside down sir

(audience:  laughs)

Rimmer (turning it upside down):  answer:  a whatsapp message????

(audience:  laughs)

Lister (entering)

(audience:  cheers and applauds)

oh I remember whatsapp from the history channels, wasn't it a messenging service

(audience:  laughs)

Kryten:  that's right sir and I believe they got their "tick" colours very wildly confused!  (he points at Cat who has been sitting off-camera this whole time, pulling ticks off himself)

(audience:  laughs, cheers and applauds)

Cat:  owww!!!

(audience:  prolonged laughter with a few "whey-heys" thrown in for good measure, which allows an abrupt shift in tone)

Kryten:  alert, sirs!!  meteor shower up ahead!!!!

(audience:  piss their pants in hysterics whilst rolling up and down the aisles)

[St_Eddie]

At the end of the winter term I tried playing The Wrong Trousers to a group of year 6 kids (I work in a school, before you ask), and their reaction was "YUCK!  OLD!!"

This is exactly why corporal punishment should have never been abolished.

It's really bizarre to me that there seems to be a lean towards recommending episodes in which the cast aren't just playing their regular characters throughout, as an introduction to the show.

Good point.  My own recommendation would be 'The End'.  I see no reason not to start at the beginning... the beginning of the show I mean, not the episode 'The Beginning'.

[willbo]

with Polymorph there's also the fact that Lister and Rimmers transformations are quite generic - they're not really fearful or angry normally (Rimmer is more just uptight and annoyed). And Cat and Kryten's "cool" and "servant" roles are simple enough for a newcomer.

[Replies From View]

Top 5 Red Dwarf Introduction Episodes:


The episode "The Beginning"
Emohawk (Polymorph 2)
Pete Part 2
Timewave
Only The Good

[rue the polywhirl]

Just watched season XII opener Cured and found it to be miles better than I was expecting, my fav Dave era episode so far and a reasonable one to show to the uninitiated although I'd probably just recommend them to start with the first episode. 

[willbo]

maybe there just isn't a perfect jumping on point for RD. By the time the show becomes fast-moving and accessible, its humour already relies on familiarity with the characters.

[Replies From View]

Just watched season XII opener Cured and found it to be miles better than I was expecting, my fav Dave era episode so far and a reasonable one to show to the uninitiated although I'd probably just recommend them to start with the first episode.

Just thought the whole

Spoiler alert

"they are robots"

[close]

twist a bit of a cop-out.

[idunnosomename]

Imagine a distant future where all that survives of human civilisation is a VHS recording of the broadcast of Pete Pt 1. It keeps going at the end into the snooker until the tape runs out.

[petril]

Imagine a distant future where all that survives of human civilisation is a VHS recording of the broadcast of Pete Pt 1. It keeps going at the end into the snooker until the tape runs out.

Dougie Donnelly is worshipped as a saviour and the one who wiped out the terrible reign of the lizard people; the Emissary of the prophet Icke

[Replies From View]

Imagine a distant future where all that survives of human civilisation is a VHS recording of the broadcast of Pete Pt 1. It keeps going at the end into the snooker until the tape runs out.

Yes it would be so annoying to end with the dinosaur cliffhanger and never reach the curry and shitting parts of the story.

[Mobbd]

It's really bizarre to me that there seems to be a lean towards recommending episodes in which the cast aren't just playing their regular characters throughout, as an introduction to the show.

yup

maybe there just isn't a perfect jumping on point for RD. By the time the show becomes fast-moving and accessible, its humour already relies on familiarity with the characters.

Future Echoes. It's literally the first episode after the pilot. Completely self-contained, hilarious, and with good sci-fi and no extra characters. The End is obviously brill but it's a bit of an origin story thing that you can go back to later.

Future Echoes was the first episode I ever saw (1994 re-runs) and I fell completely in love. It works well on its own as a little movie if you never watch the show again and it works well if you want to carry on.

I also remember seeing the first episode of Series III and being blown away by the new and totally unexpected opening sequence, especially the Polymorph and wondering what it was. I'd want to let other people have the chance of getting that experience.

[Replies From View]

"Hello I am now letting you watch this."


"Thank you."

[purlieu]

The End is, joke-for-joke, not one of the best episodes, doesn't always get a great response from the audience, and has a few naff performances. Obviously worth a shot if you're expecting them to be in for the long haul, but as a standalone it's not that strong (and doesn't even introduce one of the main characters until five minutes before the end).

Agreed that anything with alternate versions of the characters wouldn't work well. Not only would they miss the impact of the changes (and while Demons & Angels is comparatively shallow in that regard, it still has the fantastic Rimmer reveal, as previously mentioned), but also they aren't examples of what the show and characters are.

Future Echoes is a very good choice. I still stand by Thanks for the Memory. For Kryten-era stuff, Camille for a nice character story, White Hole for some daft sci-fi, or Psirens as it's effectively a soft reboot, and as a first episode won't suffer from "it's basically another Polymorph" like the episode does in context.

[Replies From View]

Problem with showing Psirens first is it turns Polymorph itself into "just another Polymorph story".

Also it might dampen the impact of earlier Lister guitar moments to watch that culmination as your first encounter.

[rue the polywhirl]

How about getting someone to watch The End and then Future Echoes?

[St_Eddie]

A few people have suggested 'Future Echoes' as a good episode to start with.  I still say start with 'The End' but now amend that suggestion to be followed by an immediate viewing of 'Future Echoes'.  Surely these people can spare an hour of their time?

Problem with showing Psirens first is it turns Polymorph itself into "just another Polymorph story".

Also it might dampen the impact of earlier Lister guitar moments to watch that culmination as your first encounter.

Also, people would be asking "who's this Kochanski person?".

[Replies From View]

I wouldn't start with 'The End'.  If it was created afterwards as a prequel episode you'd think the events it portrayed were needless and better left to the imagination.


And it's true.  With the benefit of hindsight we can urge people to skip it, so we should.