Red Dwarf rewatch

[Replies From View]

Yeah it really stuck out in Timewave, to the extent it feels like a fan's script. Not to mention that horrible line identified by several of you, where Cat says something about something being 'as flat as your wife's droopy-ass titties', which doesn't sound even remotely like anything the Cat has ever, ever said - or anyone in Red Dwarf for that matter. Even him saying 'arsehole' jarred. Truly bizarre anomaly of an episode.

My theory of these bizarre out-of-character criticisms is that Doug is thinking of the way people behave when they have online anonymity.  It's the only thing I can think of to make sense of it.  He's probably been a victim of the most absurdly mean-spirited criticism from people online who face-to-face would never do that.

Doesn't make sense because Cat isn't hiding behind anonymity, but anyway.  Maybe Doug just doesn't understand that bit.

[St_Eddie]

My theory of these bizarre out-of-character criticisms is that Doug is thinking of the way people behave when they have online anonymity.  It's the only thing I can think of to make sense of it.  He's probably been a victim of the most absurdly mean-spirited criticism from people online who face-to-face would never do that.

It seems perfectly clear to me why Doug had the characters act out of character and the simplest explanation is the most likely one; he needed to have the characters break the criticism laws to an extreme and wind up in prison, in order to progress the plot.  Hence you have Lister uncharacteristically saying "this food is gross" within moments of arriving onboard the ship and Cat talking about the officer's wife's "droopy ass titties".

The "humour" of the latter example is that the Cat is going so over the top with the criticism, oblivious to how unwise it is to insult a police officer.  There's no metaphor for insults delivered over the Internet via the saftey of anonymity.  It's just lazy and contrived character writing, plain and simple.

[Replies From View]

Ah okay.  In my defence I haven't seen the episode since the first time so couldn't remember the plot-reason.

[purlieu]

Cat's outburst could easily have been in character - he's the go-to one to mess up in a daft way - but it just didn't require the bunch of utterly unpleasant bullshit that he came out with.

[BritishHobo]

You'd think it'd be easy to write a line for the Cat insulting a bunch of people with awful fashion sense. Why on earth they went for 'your wife's droopy-ass titties' is beyond me.

[Lemming]

S12E05 M-CORP

It's Lister's birthday, and he's been stranded in space for so long that he doesn't even know how old he is. After having a "heart attack" (actually indigestion), he's rushed to sickbay where Kryten injects a health monitor chip into his bloodstream.

Love the scene with the medical chip. Very well-deployed Chris Barrie impression, along with the line "the stress of hearing you are about to die has caused you to die". Which is a bit of a repeated joke from Cassandra, but fuck it.

Long story short, Red Dwarf hasn't been getting software updates for years, because Cat unplugged something. After the newest batch of updates is installed, it turns out JMC no longer exists, and was bought out by a megacorp known as M-CORP. M-CORP software installs itself ship-wide and is even able to materialise a shitton of supplies and luxury goods on board the ship.

Doesn't take long for a big problem to reveal itself - Lister can't see random objects all of a sudden. In fact, the only things he can see are M-CORP products, with the rest of the ship's gear rendered invisible to him.

KRYTEN: It's much as I feared, Sir.

LISTER: What?

KRYTEN: Something really weird is going on.

Lister is being affected by a "perception filter" installed by the new M-CORP software, which is only affecting him. The effect is gradual, but it's not long before he loses the ability to see and hear his friends.

Now trapped "alone" on the ship and unable to see most furniture and objects, Lister is basically fucked. It falls to the others to figure out a way to revert the M-CORP upgrades.

Kryten somehow knows all about M-CORP now, and explains that they gained such power and influence that they were able to introduce a law to "tax thinking", and their software ended up overtaking Earth.

Lister finds an M-CORP teleporter which takes him into a strange virtual area in which he meets an AI assistant. Lister is informed that he needs to buy a subscription plan, but his shitty bank balance limits him to the crap plan. The M-CORP computer also starts causing him physical pain and then charging him for medication, as well as setting fire to the room before charging for an extinguisher (plus insurance). With his credit balance now depleted, Lister starts literally paying with his life, rapidly aging as M-CORP takes time from his life as payment for all kinds of bizarre and useless services.

Meanwhile, the others reboot the ship, which also reboots Rimmer to a recent backup. Lister can be tracked via the medical chip that he injected earlier, allowing the crew to reach the virtual environment Lister is trapped in. They find him in an extremely aged state, near-death. The AI appears and nearly kills Lister by charging him (in life) for more crap consumer goods, but is vanquished when Kryten asks it to sell them a virus that can shut down the M-CORP software.

KRYTEN: He still can't see or hear us.

LISTER: Guys, I still can't see or hear you.

It turns out the M-CORP software was actually installed into Lister's brain directly, and the only fix is to wipe Lister's brain and replace it from a backup. The only backup is from when he was 23 years old. Kryten promises that a complete personality restore can be made in about a month from CCTV footage, but until then, Lister reverts to exactly how he was at the start of The End.

Pretty good episode, very joke-heavy and most of them really work, arising naturally from the plot and the character's reactions. I also thought the scenes in which Lister was alone on board an increasingly empty ship were really effective, not sure why the audience laughed it up when it seemed to me like Doug's intention was to create a sincere sense of dread. The M-CORP AI is suitably creepy too.

As with more or less every other XI/XII episode, a few extra passes could have lifted it even higher. The M-CORP software is defeated very abruptly, with Kryten's solution being instantaneously successful (wonder why nobody on Earth thought of that), and Lister's internment in his own virtual universe is very briefly skipped over too. With just a bit of extra work on those last few scenes, this would have been even better IMO, but it's still a strong episode as it stands.

Of course, you can blow massive holes through the episode's logic - where the fuck are they getting regular updates from, for a start, and how the hell does the M-CORP tech allow for goods to be materialised from thin air. There's also the issue of why Cat isn't affected, but I assumed that was simply because Lister's the only registered living crewmember of Red Dwarf (and Rimmer's explanation that Cat is too stupid for the software to run in his brain is great too). 

Oh, and in this episode, Doug repeats the myth that men say an average of 7k words a day while women say an average of 20k. Which isn't even true. Come on Doug. COME ON, D O U G.

[St_Eddie]

I could pick this episode apart, tear it a new one.  I could start with Cat's personal grooming appliances, draining the power from the ship, being a recycled gag from 'DNA' and end with the antagonist being far too easily defeated, buuuuuuut... I just love this episode too damn much.

This is genuinely an episode which I could have happily slot into series V and not have noticed anything amiss.  Quite simply, this is the best episode of Red Dwarf since series VI and in actuality, for my money, superior to certain episodes of the classic era itself.  For example, in a lovely change of pace, Craig Charles is given a character based script to work with (a rare occasion in Dave era) and in turn he delivers a fantastic performance as a result; the part where Lister backs away from the AI, scared out of his mind, is magnificent.  When the actors are written as actual human beings, they deliver in spades.

I absolutely love this episode, I really do.  It's akin to a more overtly humorous episode of Black Mirror; it's funny, yes but it also has an intriguing and solid sci-fI concept backing it up and it features relatable characters, reacting to crazy circumstances of technology gone wrong.  It's everything I love about Red Dwarf.

[St_Eddie]

S12E05 M-CORPOh, and in this episode, Doug repeats the myth that men say an average of 7k words a day while women say an average of 20k. Which isn't even true. Come on Doug. COME ON, D O U G.

It's easier and more comforting to point and laugh at the supposed differences between genders, than it is to acknowledge the reality that we are all fundamentally the same and only separated by body parts and the petty societal differences within which we were raised.

It's far more comforting to believe of the person one fancies as being "other", as opposed to being "myself in a different skin".  It's so much easier to think of the person laying next to us as being "other", whether we be straight or gay.  We are terrified as a species in general, primarily of ourselves.  The sooner that we all accept that we are all the same scared, flawed people the better.  It's alright, I'm scared too.

[Mobbd]

Yep. Definitely the strongest episode of the series, maybe even the whole Dave era. Proper pathos, good jokes.

I have an aesthetic aversion to the 'software updates' concept that comes up quite often in this era. Red Dwarf (the ship and the show) is better when it's all physical pipes and fiber-optic tubes and plastic buttons and things that go 'bleep-bloop'. BUT, the Apple-style 21st-Century consumer tech thing got us to this episode so I am very happy to let it pass.

I've said this over on the Star Trek threads, but I don't mind continuity breaches or slight imperfections if they're in service to something worthwhile or if I'm generally just having a good time. This is a good example of that.

[purlieu]

It's bloody great. Really nicely paced, a solid and intriguing sci-fi idea that allows for some fantastic visual gags that only this show could do, some pathos, lots of great jokes. I didn't really need the The End callback at the end of the episode - it might not have been such an issue if it weren't placed between two episodes that rely on callbacks for their plotting - and, once again, a few extra minutes to really explore the world old Lister has made for himself would be great. For the most part, though, it really does feel like Red Dwarf, and I agree that it's definitely up there with some episodes from the original Rob & Doug run.

[BritishHobo]

Lovely to see Ian Boldsworth as well, after years of doing warm-up on the show, get a nice cameo as the purchasable friend.

[Replies From View]

Why can he see the contents of cans of stuff, just not the external cans.  They are still non-M-Corp products outside of their packaging.


episode ruined

[Replies From View]

It's so much easier to think of the person laying next to us as being "other", whether we be straight or gay.  We are terrified as a species in general, primarily of ourselves.  The sooner that we all accept that we are all the same scared, flawed people the better.  It's alright, I'm scared too.

The person laying next to me is imaginary, mate.

[Replies From View]

Lister on his cheeks:  We're off to see the wizard, the wonderful wizard of Oz.

[Lemming]

S12E06 Skipper

Another rare Cat and Rimmer scene to start with:

RIMMER: I'm busy. Don't disturb me. Last time you disturbed me, I was doing the safety checks, and I failed to notice the diesel decks were flooded.

CAT: All I said was "Help, I'm on fire".

Lister and Kryten have found Hollister's crew appraisal files... which Rimmer already read way back in Waiting for God, but apparently both he and Doug have forgotten.

Later, "an anomaly" has "penetrated our universe", according to the scanners. Space time is being ripped apart.

Lister and Cat resolve to rush to the Science Room to find out what's going on, but find themselves teleported instantly back to the bunk room. Turns out that whenever you make a decision, the opposite outcome will occur.

Nice scenes where Lister/Cat and Rimmer/Kryten both try to figure out what's happening. "I'm not gonna eat this" is one of the best jokes of the Dave era. Lister having toast physically forced down his throat by a space-time anomaly just properly gets me for some reason.

The crew eventually reunite and Kryten explains that the tech exists to repair the space-time rupture, after which they'd have the ability to use a "Quantum Skipper" to travel between universes. Rimmer resolves to become a dimensional nomad in search of a universe where things are going better for him.

On his first skip, Rimmer finds himself on board another Red Dwarf, in his old Series 1/2 uniform and with Holly present. And with a shit hairpiece. Turns out it's pre-disaster, and we get an elongated "everybody's dead, Dave" homage, almost word for word, with "nobody's dead, Arnold". Cringed at this, but your mileage may vary.

The Cadmium-2 explosion that killed the crew occurs right then and there. Rimmer meets Hollister who's trying to bail out in an escape pod, and skips out before the explosion hits. He enters another universe in which Lister is a cultured wine connoisseur, but Cat has been replaced by Rat, a huge anthropomorphic rat. The Rats never had the Cat religious wars, and their species is populous throughout the ship. Rimmer bails out again, and enters a world of infinite Listers, which he immediately skips out of to find that he's now Holly. After several more skips through increasingly fucked universes, Rimmer reaches one in which he's no longer a hologram, and is an officer.

Only problem is that Lister is the Captain. He escorts Rimmer to a recreation of the old bunkroom set, and Rimmer sees Earth outside the window. Despite everything else being perfect, Rimmer decides he can't stay in a reality where Lister is more successful than him, and skips out, back to the original universe.

First half of the episode was great. Less of a fan of everything after Rimmer starts skipping, but there were some strong moments there too (the Rat is so bizarre that it's difficult not to laugh). The episode leans very heavily on nostalgia - almost entirely for the first two series, weirdly enough. Mentioned this a few times, but why does the Dave-era have constant callbacks to the first two series in particular? Right down to the point of changing the logo.

The nostalgia stuff doesn't really appeal to me, not least because it's all surface-level: Rimmer's old uniform, Holly, Hollister, the bunk room with the inflatable banana. It's all visual stuff, but the tone doesn't resemble those early episodes in any way.

As usual, you can easily rip apart the concept of the space-time rupture in the first half - for example, nobody should be able to speak, since the decision to speak should backfire. Also, the crew could simply just decide to not go back to Earth, at which point, going by the show's logic, they'd suddenly materialise back home. But as a vehicle for jokes - good ones, too - the plot works fine.

One thing I really hated was the depiction of the Cadmium-2 explosion. It's played as a ridiculous farce with Hollister getting jammed in the escape pod and Holly announcing that the crew should "run around screaming". None of the sense of tragedy that the death of the crew was handled with in the early series. Of course, it was always a source of jokes - "you might as well marry a box of Daz" - but Skipper just handles it with no gravity at all. Rimmer doesn't even give a shit.

That's it, then. Currently the last episode of Red Dwarf. There's still The Promised Land left to go, and then I'm going to attempt the pointless and stress-inducing task of ranking every episode, just for a laugh.

[Lemming]

A few people have mentioned that they've never watched the Dave episodes, or only caught a few. I'd planned to do a post reccommending the least painful and most enjoyable way to get through X - XII, but going by reactions in this thread and across the internet, it seems like there's not a huge amount of agreement in terms of which episodes are worth it (bar virtually everyone agreeing that Timewave is crap and that M-CORP is good).

So if you've never seen the Dave series and you want to check them out, the only real way is to watch them all and decide for yourself.

Regardless, here's my ultra-subjective personal Dave viewing guide:

S10 E2 - Fathers & Suns - easily one of my favourites of the Dave era. The only real weak points are the vending machine stereotypes (which really are shit, but have mercifully limited screentime) and the antagonist being defeated in a way that doesn't really make sense. Otherwise, the jokes are strong and I love the concept of Lister fucking with himself across time.

S10 E3 - Lemons - the premise is ridiculous - the crew fuck up building an IKEA shower so badly that it ends up acting as a temporal teleporter - but this is easily one of the best of Doug's solo work, IMO. The jokes are great, they come fast and they arise from the plot, and I love how mundanely the whole trip to ancient history is treated.

S11 E3 - Give & Take - it's frustrating because there's a better episode buried just under the surface, but the episode as it is is still good.

S11 E4 - Officer Rimmer - recommending this with a little reluctance since I thought the tone went way too far into cartoonish kind of stuff, but most people disagreed with me, and regardless it's easily one of the best Dave episodes purely in terms of getting laughs.

S12 E4 - Mechocracy - another slightly reluctant recommendation, again based on the tone being a bit off, but it's just a lot of fun to watch for the most part.

S12 E5 - M-CORP - best episode since Series X, and arguably the best since Series VI.

There you go, enough to make a series! That's a guide designed to show what I personally think is the overall best of the Dave era, but there's several other episodes that are worth a look-in - Dear Dave has quite a bit to recommend it, Samsara is interesting, Cured is fun, Can of Worms is enjoyably stupid, and people should seriously watch Timewave just to be in awe of it.

[St_Eddie]

I adore Mr. Rat.  His appearance is by far the funniest moment in anything from the Dave era of the show.  I lose it every time I rewatch the scene and he uses his tail to hit the gong.

The nostalgia stuff doesn't really appeal to me, not least because it's all surface-level: Rimmer's old uniform, Holly, Hollister, the bunk room with the inflatable banana. It's all visual stuff, but the tone doesn't resemble those early episodes in any way.

Agreed.  It's cheap pandering to people's nostalgic memories, in place of actual decent new material, or material resembling the quality of the writing in those early years.

One thing I really hated was the depiction of the Cadmium-2 explosion. It's played as a ridiculous farce with Hollister getting jammed in the escape pod and Holly announcing that the crew should "run around screaming". None of the sense of tragedy that the death of the crew was handled with in the early series.

I was very disappointed to see Hollister come back in his series VIII form, as opposed to his portrayal as the professional and intelligent Captain in series I & II.  I really hope Doug never brings the character back again, if he's just going to portray him as a moronic, self-serving clutz and continue to use him as a vessel for cringe inducing fat jokes.

[g0m]

This is one of my big sticking points for the episode; why would a lack of criticism result in people dressing as giant tomatoes and what have you?  It wouldn't, would it?  I certainly know that if I were free of criticism, I wouldn't suddenly have an urge to change into day-glo garish clothes.  I already wear the clothes I want to wear, even in a world where criticism exists.  For a select few, there may be a deeply held, repressed desire to dress in bizarre outfits such as a giant tomato costume, I suppose and on a ship free of criticism, there would certainly be people with a natural desire to look nice but for the majority, if anything, a lack of criticism would result in people not bothering to make themselves presentable in any way whatsoever.

They'd all be Listers, with stains and rips on their clothes.  Heck, the eventual outcome may be that people wouldn't really bother to get dressed in the mornings at all; they'd just walk around in their underwear or even naked all day long.  After all, what would be the point of keeping up appearances if nobody could criticise you for not doing so?  I also imagine that people would stink, as they wouldn't be showering or bathing regularly.  If Doug had been a smarter writer, he may have taken the episode in this kind of direction, but alas...

I know this is an episode ago, but Simpsons did it. Kind of.

[BeardFaceMan]

On his first skip, Rimmer finds himself on board another Red Dwarf, in his old Series 1/2 uniform and with Holly present. And with a shit hairpiece. Turns out it's pre-disaster, and we get an elongated "everybody's dead, Dave" homage, almost word for word, with "nobody's dead, Arnold". Cringed at this, but your mileage may vary.

I love series 1 & 2 RD more than any other, but I think I must be the only person who thinks that the original "everybody's dead, Dave" bit was shit. The callbacks in this ep were a whole other level of shit though, no reason at all for them to be there, no jokes attached, just "look at this, remember this from when the show was good?" "RRRAAAAYYYY!!!!"

[ajsmith2]

I was unaware until watching selected series 12 episodes inspired by this thread that Hollister had come back again in Skipper. Was impressed by how Mac MacDonald was still able to look the part 30 years after he first appeared (well facially anyway as that's all we see) but the whooping and clapping upon his reveal was indeed tiresome to behold and took you right out of any dramatic tension the scene could have had.

[NurseNugent]

I love series 1 & 2 RD more than any other, but I think I must be the only person who thinks that the original "everybody's dead, Dave" bit was shit. The callbacks in this ep were a whole other level of shit though, no reason at all for them to be there, no jokes attached, just "look at this, remember this from when the show was good?" "RRRAAAAYYYY!!!!"

I've always though if it he had changed it to ''Everybody's alive, Arnold'' it would have been less jarring.

[purlieu]

The first half really feels like classic Dwarf. The jump cuts are like a hyper version of the bicycle gag and done with such ludicrousness that I was really in pain with laughter first time I saw the episode. Again, it's the kind of thing only Red Dwarf could do and it's done so well.
I'm not much of a stickler for continuity, but them all conveniently forgetting about Ace always sticks out as weird.

The second half is mixed. I loved it on first watch, but once the novelty wore off the Holly, Hollister and Captain Lister sections really are just fan service with little else to recommend them. The VIII Hollister portrayal is shit and nobody's dead Arnold made me cringe from the start.
That said, the run of scenes starting with Mr. Rat (astonishing) and then all the quick skips (Rimmer as Holly, the trumpeting elephant, Blue Dwarf, the original model) is superb.

It's still my favourite Dave era episode. The five or so minutes of fan service really drag it down, but without them I'd probably put it up in my all-time top 20. The first half and Mr Rat are just so brilliant.

The second half of XII really is very good.

[Replies From View]

First half of the episode was great. Less of a fan of everything after Rimmer starts skipping, but there were some strong moments there too (the Rat is so bizarre that it's difficult not to laugh). The episode leans very heavily on nostalgia - almost entirely for the first two series, weirdly enough. Mentioned this a few times, but why does the Dave-era have constant callbacks to the first two series in particular? Right down to the point of changing the logo.

I'm not sure, but I think the logo they use now was introduced for series 3 and lasted with the same font in series 4.  Series 5-10 used the same logo but with a Times New Roman font.  Series 1 and 2 didn't have a logo yet.

So if the series 11-12 logo harks back to anything, it's series 3-4.

[Replies From View]

That's it, then. Currently the last episode of Red Dwarf. There's still The Promised Land left to go, and then I'm going to attempt the pointless and stress-inducing task of ranking every episode, just for a laugh.

You could always examine the Remastered versions of series 1-3 if you wanted a break from laughing.

[Replies From View]

I've always though if it he had changed it to ''Everybody's alive, Arnold'' it would have been less jarring.

Wrong rhythm.

[JamesTC]

I'm happy to see so much love for Mr Rat. I had the impression that it wouldn't be well received on here.

The first time I saw it was probably the most I've laughed watching TV. It is such a bad costume that it shouldn't work but it just does.

Thankfully they cut out the extra scene they recorded which you can find in the deleted scenes. Basically a play on the "I'm gonna eat you little fishy" song but changed to cheese.

You could always examine the Remastered versions of series 1-3 if you wanted a break from laughing.

If you did want a whirlwind tour of the worst offenders in the Remastered versions then The End, Thanks for the Memory, Backwards, Polymorph and Bodyswap would be the ones to catch.

[St_Eddie]

You could always examine the Remastered versions of series 1-3 if you wanted a break from laughing.

Lemming, I hope that you realise that now this has been suggested, you are obliged to do it.  Sorry, but it's out of our hands.  Them's the rules.

[ajsmith2]

How about reviewing the straight to video releases Smeg Ups (1994) and Smeg Outs (1995)? The links by Llewelyn and (in the 2nd one) Charles are in character so there's an argument for them as canon. All we had in terms of new content in the fallow mid-90s. Plus I want to hear everyone's thoughts on the 'Has Holly Survived His Computer Rashes?' kid.

[St_Eddie]

Also, review the Tongue Tied music video and making of (which I paid £30 for on VHS, back in the day, off eBay).  Ta.

[neveragain]

How about reviewing the straight to video releases Smeg Ups (1994) and Smeg Outs (1995)? The links by Llewelyn and (in the 2nd one) Charles are in character so there's an argument for them as canon. All we had in terms of new content in the fallow mid-90s. Plus I want to hear everyone's thoughts on the 'Has Holly Survived His Computer Rashes?' kid.

I'd love a good old chat about those (or some sort of watch-along). I got them both on a DVD a year or so back - which also had the Smeg Ups of series 7 and 8, pleasingly - but was saddened to see some moments like the competitions were cut out, marring the nostalgia somewhat. I get that it's out of date but they could have just had a caption to that effect.