Red Dwarf rewatch

[idunnosomename]

I was thinking of m'laddio too. super pass-agging.

[Lemming]

S05E01 Holoship

"Second Technician Arnold Rimmer. IQ... unknown."

Let's get the whining out of the way, because I like this episode: the concept of the holoship is completely ridiculous. Not in itself, but in the context of the show - nearly 2000 people just roaming around in deep space, chilling out and doing scientific missions? And they're still part of the Space Corps? Crane implies they come from the 25th century, so they've just been adrift ever since? They're millions of years old?

Kryten knows what a holoship is, and it's a project that was "in its initial phase" when he "left the solar system". I don't think we ever got a date on when the Nova 5 left (maybe in the books? I remember they were going to put a Coca Cola ad on the moon or something), so that doesn't clear much up.

I actually love the concept of the ship itself. With sentient holograms being a thing in this setting, it makes perfect sense to crew a holographic ship with a holographic staff and send them to explore space in ways which regular humans never could. It is a cool idea that the holo-crew consider themselves to be better than humans, makes a change from the regular second-class status holograms are given (ie Rimmer being expected to kill himself in White Hole) and you can see why, if you were made of light, virtually invincible and millions of years old, you might start to think being a hologram was the dog's bollocks.

But this is millions of years after humanity was presumably wiped out. Nobody on Red Dwarf gives a fuck that they've met nearly 2000 other people from Earth after all this time, and nobody on the holoship gives too much of a fuck either. They don't even care that they've made what is presumably their first ever contact with Felis Sapiens, and they're meant to be a science ship. Makes no sense at all.

Episode is a big success anyway. Plenty of great scenes. The film viewing at the start is ace, the "Binks to enlightenment" scene is classic, and IQ-boosted Rimmer is hilarious. "I wrote a palendromic haiku this morning, perhaps you'd like to hear it?" The physical acting during the test-taking scene fucking kills me. The acting by the holoship crew is universally over-the-top, but it works. "This is a ship, Mr Rimmer... of SUPERHUMANS." (hair stroke)

The Rimmer and Crane plot is a laugh, mainly because of its self-aware ridiculousness. It's played up as a parody, complete with the 1940s soaring romantic music, the end title card, and Crane even does the silly high-pitched voice that almost every female actor in 40s films had to do. The fact that it's a pisstake helps you go along with it, and Crane sacrificing herself to let Rimmer in, and then Rimmer sacrificing his place on the ship to revive Crane, really does work well as a neat little plot. Also, it didn't dawn on me at first, but the computer says that Crane is the dumbest person aboard the ship, so much so that Rimmer (who doesn't know what the word "compute" means) has a 4% chance of beating her, which is amusing.

I love the scene where the crew are looking for a new hologram, because it's one of the rare occasions where the writers remembered that, oh yeah, there's like 150 (or, over 1000, according to Justice) people ready to be restored from backup. And I love the crewmember's bemused reaction. "The crew is... you three." Though, you'd assume that Kochanski would be the first hologram they interviewed but aaahhh fuck it the show's structural integrity is falling apart, it's all about laughs now.

This actually feels a lot like the best of the Dave-era episodes. Idiotic concept that makes no sense, but which gets a pass since it isn't taken remotely seriously by the script either, and instead just acts as a vehicle for broad jokes that by-and-large work.

Also... "holowhip"? That's a horrific little bit of worldbuilding.

I wonder why everyone was hanging out in Starbug to watch films at the start. Might have been safer aboard the city-sized fortress of a ship, rather than the dinky little green piece of shit, but whatever. Maybe they were scouting.

[DrGreggles]

Not a favourite episode of mine, despite some good bits ("I hardly said anything apart from 'geronimo'").
How hot is Jane Horrocks as Crane though?

[JamesTC]

Holoship and The Inquisitor are the perfect examples of being rescued in the edit. The Red Dwarf equivalent of A New Hope.

The deleted scenes turn the two episodes into a broad and overly explanatory affair. The harsh edits turn them into punchy classics. The jokes that come straight to mind are Rimmer walking back into the wrong door back to the Holoship bridge and Cat wanting to kill the Inquisitor who he believes is in Lister's head. Not unfunny gags but out of place for this era of the show.

[markburgle]

Really enjoyed this one when I rewatched it, it's actually quite moving to have a smart woman see past Rimmer's flaws and love him for who he is, after the way the show routinely shits on him. He deserves it at this point.

One part that bugs me is the whole sex-on-demand angle - the quietly horrific fact of being expected to hop in the sack with anyone who asks and be a social pariah if you refuse... not everyone on the ship can be everyone else's cup of tea surely? But no, Lt Bennings from the science lab asked me for a toe curler tomorrow at 2pm, so I've just got to cringe through it with the repugnant fucker. It'd put you off the whole business after a while.

The episode does save it from blatant, unchallenged-teenage-fantasy territory though, with Kryten's "Am I the only one who finds that just a little bit tacky?", which I really enjoy.

[Replies From View]

I think this is a brilliant episode, but you should check out the extended version if you want to see how shite it could have been.  Proper series 8 calibre gurning, overacting and waddling stupid walks for absolutely no reason.  It's amazing what tightening Holoship managed to do for it.

The extended version does clear up the mystery of NIRVANAH CRANE'S DRESSING GOWN though, so that's good.




Edit:  sorry, yet another example of me jumping to reply without reading everyone else's replies first:

Holoship and The Inquisitor are the perfect examples of being rescued in the edit. The Red Dwarf equivalent of A New Hope.

The deleted scenes turn the two episodes into a broad and overly explanatory affair. The harsh edits turn them into punchy classics. The jokes that come straight to mind are Rimmer walking back into the wrong door back to the Holoship bridge and Cat wanting to kill the Inquisitor who he believes is in Lister's head. Not unfunny gags but out of place for this era of the show.

[Replies From View]

Also... "holowhip"? That's a horrific little bit of worldbuilding.

We get to see one in Demons and Angels, as well.  One of the few times when something emerging quite out of the blue in an episode was at least mentioned a few episodes before.

[Phil_A]

Holoship and The Inquisitor are the perfect examples of being rescued in the edit. The Red Dwarf equivalent of A New Hope.

The deleted scenes turn the two episodes into a broad and overly explanatory affair. The harsh edits turn them into punchy classics. The jokes that come straight to mind are Rimmer walking back into the wrong door back to the Holoship bridge and Cat wanting to kill the Inquisitor who he believes is in Lister's head. Not unfunny gags but out of place for this era of the show.

Were the Inquisitor deleted scenes on the S5 DVD? I remember the outtakes from Holoship but none from the Inquisitor, which is a bit odd.

[JamesTC]

Were the Inquisitor deleted scenes on the S5 DVD? I remember the outtakes from Holoship but none from the Inquisitor, which is a bit odd.

Yep, they are on there. They are mainly alternative extended sequences that were rest of with the gags taken out.

[Evian Mousemat]

For a while Holoship was a sort of legendary episode for me because my (prudish, Catholic) parents wouldn't let me watch it - I assume because it featured people talking about sex, and lying on a bed together. I think I may have only seen it after S6 had started.

Clever Rimmer is amazing, as is Lister To Red Dwarf. And "Over the years, I have come to regard you as...people I met"

Also - I loved Lister's costume in series 5 so much. I spent ages trying to find a jacket and deerstalker like he's wearing in this episode.

[Catalogue Trousers]

I rewatched recently, that entire Winnie the Pooh bit is wonderful.

Personal anecdote time: does anyone else here remember that abysmal virtual reality gameshow on the Beeb from the early 90s, Cyberzone? Well, the pilot try-out for that was filmed at the Anglia TV studios in Norwich, and some friends and I were among the audience. Craig was the main presenter, even at that stage, and as part of keeping us amused/interested while the games were being set up, he told us a few things about the upcoming series 4. He specifically singled out Pooh before the firing squad as a moment that he really liked, although at that point Meltdown was apparently meant to be the opening episode of the series, not the closer.

As for what I reckoned to Meltdown? Its biggest problem for me is the sudden jarring shift in tone. The first two-thirds are zany, imaginative, Sf/fantasy stuff, then it all goes horribly po-faced and serious and 'isn't war terrible' for the last third, and I suspect that even that crap Elvis cover over the end credits was meant to be more poignant than funny. Red Dwarf was suddenly going 'look how SERIOUS we can be when we comment on World history' and, as with Blackadder, it was a mistake in my opinion.

But yeah, the Pooh bit does rock.

[Hobo With A Shit Pun]

"Hell man, even Doris Day." is a gem.

[Lemming]

S05E02 The Inquisitor

"A simple 'yes' would have sufficed."

Appropriate episode for Halloween because it's probably the most serious episode of Red Dwarf. It leans so far into dark sci-fi territory that it doesn't quite feel like Red Dwarf anymore, and the results are fantastic.

The plot is effective both as a horror thing and as a bit of thoughtful sci-fi. The sci-fi works because The Inquisitor is a chilling enemy, the stakes are cosmic horror levels of high, and the whole "you're judged by yourself" thing is a good idea that's executed nicely. Meanwhile, the episode's horror elements are carried out perfectly, with the soundtrack and direction turning the usual sets into a hellish industrial labyrinth. The "we don't exist here anymore" scene is so good, genuinely tense and thrilling in a way Red Dwarf rarely is.

As another rare bonus for Red Dwarf, the plot actually makes more-or-less perfect sense. There's only a couple of minor logic disasters which don't damage the overall episode, like how the fuck does Kryten remember anything after re-appearing at the end.

This is a glimpse into how I kind of wish they'd written Red Dwarf after deciding to switch to a more action-y format from season 3/4 onwards. Rather than packing the script with catchphrases and broad filler jokes every 5 seconds, the story instead has a lot of room to breathe, with several deliberately laugh-free segments and moments that are allowed to be dramatic without having to also set up a joke. When the jokes do come, they're killer and perfectly placed, never offsetting the horror/drama of the plot. Seriously, this episode doesn't have the funniest lines in the show, but it does have one of the highest joke hit-rates, simply because there are less jokes than usual, and, as a result, care seems to have been taken to ensure that when a joke is in the script it really works.

The only thing I don't really like in the episode is the ending. Tricking the Inquisitor into erasing himself and undoing all his timeline changes is clever and a solid resolution to the plot, but the script tries really hard to portray Lister as a hyper-competent badass hero - independently coming up with the entire plan, and then mastering the time gauntlet controls after 5 seconds of instruction from Kryten, to the point of being able to almost match the Inquisitor in a 1-on-1 duel. Then we get to the part where he's taunting the Inquisitor while dangling him over a pit, which I can't take seriously because, come on, it's Craig fucking Charles, not Bruce Willis. I complained about this before in Series 4, which is where it started, but these scenes where it's all "oh, Lister is actually secretly a genius who can outwit 9000 IQ Holly/the Inquisitor, and also fearlessly stands up to killer droids" never ever work for me. It just feels awkwardly out of character at best and like a self-parody at worst.

There's also the moral question of erasing the Inquisitor, because technically in doing so you'll kill just as many people as he did - all the replacements die and are replaced when the original victims are revived. But fuck it, self-defence etc etc. Also, second episode in a row where everyone's just chilling in Starbug for no reason at the start, and, surprise surprise, are vulnerable to being fucked about with by hostiles.

It's really good anyway. It's tempting to think of how other episodes could work if they'd gotten a similar treatment.

Oh, and my favourite line in the episode: "they're from some freaky alternate dimension, and they've come to hijack the ship, and do... ooh, weird things to us."

[DrGreggles]

Never been keen on this episode.
Think my fandom was on the wane by S5.

[Replies From View]

I think series 5 strikes the best balance between sci fi and comedy, and it's also my favourite series in terms of look.  It all just gels really well.

Series 6 took me off-guard because they seemed to take three series to get the formula right for this style of Red Dwarf, and then they changed it.  I'd have taken at least two more series in the style of series 5 before stranding them in an expanded Starbug.  But that's just me.

Before series 6 of course, the US pilot captured something of the aesthetic of this era of Dwarf, and I always felt slightly intrigued about where they might have continued things if they'd gone to series.



In fact here's a mind experiment to consider before we move on to series 6.  In the Dwarfing USA documentary on the series 5 DVD Craig Charles points out that if the attempt to launch Dwarf in the US had been successful, there would have been no series 6, 7 or 8.  So let's imagine that alternative dimension:  it depends on the US pilot having all its character issues fixed and being good enough to launch a full series, so we're not dwelling on the idea of US Dwarf definitely being shite.

We're going back in time to when the Smegazines were talking about the American pilot, but instead of one day learning that it had been cancelled, you're learning that it's going ahead. 

In this alternate dimension you would be trading series 6, 7 and 8 of UK Dwarf for an unknown number of US seasons of as-yet unknown quality.  But if you step into that alternative dimension all your awareness of series 6, 7 and 8 will be wiped as well.  You won't know that Grant and Naylor split up and that Red Dwarf UK went to shit, and that, relatively speaking, Back to Reality ended the UK version of the show on a high.  Instead you'll be wondering what might have happened if UK Dwarf hadn't been cancelled for US Dwarf.

Would you trade?

[DrGreggles]

Look at it this way:
Would you ditch one generally good series in order to rid the world of two shit ones?
I'd say no. Enjoy s6 and pretend that explosion at the end killed them all.
Fin

[Phil_A]

"What happened to him, his voice finally break?

I'd say on balance The Inquisitor is my favourite episode of Dwarf. even though it does contain the already-tiring trope of Kryten being an exposition device.

As previously mentioned, they get the comedy/drama balance pretty much spot on here, it's an incredibly dark episode in some respects but basically every joke lands.

I don't begrudge them giving Lister his "hero" moment, as how many of those does he actually have over the course of the first six series. It also it fits thematically with the episode as it's Lister's complacency and unwillingness to better himself that gets him deleted from history, and only by overcoming his limitations and outwitting a superior opponent does he prove himself worthy of existence.

Here's a proper pedantic nitpick - why did Lister still have his other self's hand at the end when that other self would no longer have existed?

[Replies From View]

Look at it this way:
Would you ditch one generally good series in order to rid the world of two shit ones?
I'd say no. Enjoy s6 and pretend that explosion at the end killed them all.
Fin

It's not just losing series 6, 7 and 8 though.  It's gaining an unknown number of seasons of US Dwarf.  For all you know there could be five seasons of Prime Simpsons tier brilliance waiting for you in that alternative dimension.  This is the potential trade-off, and you won't know unless you commit to it, and then you'll lose all awareness of series 6-8 altogether so the cock will be on the other foot as it were


It's a toughie; admit it will you

[neveragain]

Fun fact: the VHS upon which I had taped Series 5 was so fuzzy and worn down I couldn't make out a word The Inquisitor says. Didn't really help the episode.

[JamesTC]

The US series had potential and the casting was great. The part of Lister needed to be re-written for Craig Bierko in the same way the part was written to be younger for Craig Charles after Lister was originally supposed to be middle-aged. Still think Bierko did well with what he had to work with.

Saying that, no fucking way I give up on my favourite series of TV ever made (VI). Plus The Promised Land wouldn't have happened and I never would have fulfilled a dream of being in the audience.

[Catalogue Trousers]

It's a toughie; admit it will you

No it isn't. I'd trade off for 5 good to excellent series of UK Dwarf and however many series of hopefully at least decent US Dwarf in a shot.

[Replies From View]

The US series had potential and the casting was great. The part of Lister needed to be re-written for Craig Bierko in the same way the part was written to be younger for Craig Charles after Lister was originally supposed to be middle-aged. Still think Bierko did well with what he had to work with.

Saying that, no fucking way I give up on my favourite series of TV ever made (VI). Plus The Promised Land wouldn't have happened and I never would have fulfilled a dream of being in the audience.

I didn't say we would lose anything post series 8.  Without the rejection of the US pilot maybe Rob and Doug wouldn't have split up.  Years after the end of the US version of the show, they may have brought it back together on Dave or the BBC.

[Captain Z]

When has a US remake of a UK TV thing ever been good?

People will say The Office, but it never did anything for me. And I believe the popular opinion is that the US Office only became good when it turned into something entirely different from the UK version.

[Gulftastic]

When has a US remake of a UK TV thing ever been good?

People will say The Office, but it never did anything for me. And I believe the popular opinion is that the US Office only became good when it turned into something entirely different from the UK version.

US Shameless is leagues better than the shitstorm that the UK one became after about series 3.

[JamesTC]

I didn't say we would lose anything post series 8.  Without the rejection of the US pilot maybe Rob and Doug wouldn't have split up.  Years after the end of the US version of the show, they may have brought it back together on Dave or the BBC.

I don't think the appetite for more UK Dwarf would really have been there if it was a hit in America. Rob and Doug would have moved on from the show and been in a position to do their own new thing either in the US or the UK.

Even saying that, Series VI, VII and VIII are just as important to my attachment to the show as III, IV and V.

[neveragain]

When has a US remake of a UK show ever been good?

It's all subjective obviously - though can we disregard the success of The US Office just because we might not like it? - but I would add Sanford & Son and All In The Family.

Edited to sound less aggressive.

[Lemming]

I don't begrudge them giving Lister his "hero" moment, as how many of those does he actually have over the course of the first six series.

A few too many since series 4 for me, but I suppose it's down to personal taste, and which Lister incarnation you prefer.

There's two distinct versions of each character at this point in the show - is Lister an optimistic but inept idiot, or a moody, thoughtful action hero with a hidden reserve of immense intelligence and skill? Is Rimmer an overconfident, slightly deranged bully or a meek, self-hating loser? Is Cat an amoral cat or an immoral twat of a human? Is Holly a troll or an idiot? Is Kryten a janky robotic whipping boy or an all-knowing exposition machine who can do anything, all while spewing sarcastic jabs? The show seems to want all these interpretations to exist at once (except for Holly), which is possible of course, but it's not really working IMO. Rather than feeling like the characters are multidimensional and have added depth, it just feels to me like there's conflicting versions of each crewmember fighting for screentime.

I think series 5 strikes the best balance between sci fi and comedy, and it's also my favourite series in terms of look.  It all just gels really well.

Yeah, and I think there's a tonal shift towards horror which I'm really liking. The sci-fi feels a little more magical and a little less "scientific", too, which is cool - sort of like Star Trek TOS or very early TNG.

A ghost ship of superhumans who've been drifting for millions of years, a robot who exists outside time and can rewrite the entire timeline, a moon that shapes its terrain and wildlife to match the psyche of visitors, a machine that can separate the "good" and "bad" aspects of your personality and give them physical form, and a big squid that induces suicidal hallucinations. Every episode (except Holoship, maybe) has one properly effective creepy moment too. Langstrom sitting up with the glowing eyes in Quarantine used to fuck me up as a kid, as did evil Kryten smashing through the wall to strangle Lister in Demons & Angels.

[petril]

A few too many since series 4 for me, but I suppose it's down to personal taste, and which Lister incarnation you prefer.

There's two distinct versions of each character at this point in the show - is Lister an optimistic but inept idiot, or a moody, thoughtful action hero with a hidden reserve of immense intelligence and skill? Is Rimmer an overconfident, slightly deranged bully or a meek, self-hating loser? Is Cat an amoral cat or an immoral twat of a human? Is Holly a troll or an idiot? Is Kryten a janky robotic whipping boy or an all-knowing exposition machine who can do anything, all while spewing sarcastic jabs? The show seems to want all these interpretations to exist at once (except for Holly), which is possible of course, but it's not really working IMO. Rather than feeling like the characters are multidimensional and have added depth, it just feels to me like there's conflicting versions of each crewmember fighting for screentime.

Yeah, and I think there's a tonal shift towards horror which I'm really liking. The sci-fi feels a little more magical and a little less "scientific", too, which is cool - sort of like Star Trek TOS or very early TNG.

A ghost ship of superhumans who've been drifting for millions of years, a robot who exists outside time and can rewrite the entire timeline, a moon that shapes its terrain and wildlife to match the psyche of visitors, a machine that can separate the "good" and "bad" aspects of your personality and give them physical form, and a big squid that induces suicidal hallucinations. Every episode (except Holoship, maybe) has one properly effective creepy moment too. Langstrom sitting up with the glowing eyes in Quarantine used to fuck me up as a kid, as did evil Kryten smashing through the wall to strangle Lister in Demons & Angels.

not to mention the meta-horror of thinking

Spoiler alert

the series is done and after all that journey with these characters and that universe turned out to just be all bollocks,
for about 14 minutes in the middle of Back to Reality

[close]

[Catalogue Trousers]

Back To Reality is a stone-cold masterpiece. If the series had ended there, that'd have been one hell of a high to leave on.

Given extra impact due to the fact that I was one of a group of young nerds who'd taken a half-hour break in the middle of our Friday Cyberpunk roleplaying session to watch it. For about ten minutes after, we all succumbed to a long, thoughtful silence. Forget stuff like the holodeck in TNG and 'Computer, end program!' - the activities of the Despair Squid remain a far better example of confronting Fantasy with Reality.

[Evian Mousemat]

I love the implication (intentional or by accident) that everything the Inquisitor is doing is utterly pointless, since all the replacements we see him install ended up making all the same life decisions as their original versions.