Author Topic: Red Dwarf rewatch  (Read 119081 times)

neveragain

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Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2160 on: February 22, 2021, 12:22:21 AM »
'The End' is one of the best opening episodes in sitcom history. All opinions my own.

Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2161 on: February 22, 2021, 05:36:06 AM »
I think The Inquisitor was actually a good choice of first episodes.

Great sci-fi, all the jokes hit, entirely self contained, and each character gets introduced when they're asked to "justify yourself".

Also most importantly, the special effects look decent and it doesn't look low budget like the early episodes. That might immidiately put some people off.

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Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2162 on: February 22, 2021, 09:09:49 AM »
Well, kind of, but they introduce themselves in character, not objectively truthfully, and a lot of the back and forth with the Inquisitor works because you know the characters already.


petrilTanaka

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Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2163 on: February 22, 2021, 09:51:47 AM »
so is there an episode that manages to:

  • introduce the characters quickly at the start
  • reference the overall premise just enough to know how much it matters in general
  • a sci-fi premise arrives and we get a demonstration of the tone and attitude towards the sci-fi elements

?

Legion maybe? although that's at the point where they'd just lost Red Dwarf so I can't remember how much of the accident/dead dave/porridge/bleak gets brought up in that

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Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2164 on: February 22, 2021, 09:58:06 AM »
Future Echoes, mate

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Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2165 on: February 22, 2021, 10:04:39 AM »
From series 2:  Thanks for the Memory and Stasis Leak

From series 3:  Marooned.  I think Timeslides was one of the first episodes I ever saw, so might work for others as the first. 

From series 4:  Camille, Justice or White Hole

From series 5:  Maybe Quarantine?  Or does that lean too heavily on knowledge of Rimmer?


Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2166 on: February 22, 2021, 10:35:54 AM »
“Hello I am now letting you watch this.”


“Thank you.”

Mate. I used the word "let" but not in a gatekeepeing way. We're already recommending an episode; that's the object of the exercise. I was concerned that recommending a later episode to a new viewer would spoil the whammy effect of being hit by Series III. I wasn't "allowing people to watch" something while holding onto the keys to the vault of the other episodes. It would just be nice to give the new viewer (since we're the ones directing this) the option of the build-up we enjoyed. Surely. This is all I said:

I also remember seeing the first episode of Series III and being blown away by the new and totally unexpected opening sequence, especially the Polymorph and wondering what it was. I'd want to let other people have the chance of getting that experience.

Anyway.

From series 2:  Thanks for the Memory and Stasis Leak

From series 3:  Marooned.  I think Timeslides was one of the first episodes I ever saw, so might work for others as the first. 

From series 4:  Camille, Justice or White Hole

From series 5:  Maybe Quarantine?  Or does that lean too heavily on knowledge of Rimmer?

Those are all good shouts IMO. You'd get away with Quarantine. Stasis Leak is maybe a bit too steeped in lore to be ideal but it's not confusing or anything.

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Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2167 on: February 22, 2021, 11:32:58 AM »
I was just joking because the wording amused me, you can relax!

markburgle

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Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2168 on: February 23, 2021, 12:23:49 AM »
Here's one o them "reaction" videos to "The End". He quite likes it:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7xjvl5

Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2169 on: February 23, 2021, 12:38:17 AM »
A few people have suggested 'Future Echoes' as a good episode to start with.  I still say start with 'The End' but now amend that suggestion to be followed by an immediate viewing of 'Future Echoes'.  Surely these people can spare an hour of their time?

It's already an hour! we're watching it immediately after our weekly buffy episode

Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2170 on: February 23, 2021, 12:43:48 AM »
thanks for all the help everyone, i think i'm either gonna stick with inquisitor or go with future echoes [as suggested a few times]

Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2171 on: February 23, 2021, 07:23:42 AM »
When it looked like Rob was back on the scene and that he might even have nudged Doug out, I was elated. Justice for Red Dwarf at last! But I'm starting to have sinking feelings about all of this.
...
Sigh. Anyone got any other feelings? Make me feel better about it please.

I found it. It's this part:

Quote
RIMMER: Yes! (PUNCHES THE AIR) I am the last thing alive in this universe! I win!

Overlooking the fact that Rimmer isn't actually alive (on the grounds that "you're dead but you're not dead-dead because you're still here") this is very funny. I like that petty, competitive Rimmer would find this particular silver lining. He just wants to be the last man standing! And probably to ascribe his survival to something he did right/his innate "better"-ness and always having a pen. That's great!

Additionally, Rob is saying here that the universe is not crammed full of Simulant and GELF civilisations. This might not be a direct message to us but it's a quiet insight into the way Rob sees the Red Dwarf universe: as the lonely, godless one they originally gave us. Yusss! There's nothing out there but "a lot of floating smegging rocks" again!

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Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2172 on: February 23, 2021, 07:29:00 AM »
thanks for all the help everyone, i think i'm either gonna stick with inquisitor or go with future echoes [as suggested a few times]

Inquisitor is such a mind-numbingly bonkers choice for first episode ever; its entire premise is “these characters you know and care about are being replaced by versions you’ve never seen before”, and you’re meant to feel that injustice because you’ve followed these characters for so long.  But it’s entirely up to you.

Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2173 on: February 23, 2021, 10:06:01 AM »
It's already an hour! we're watching it immediately after our weekly buffy episode

Just replace Buffy with an extra episode of Red Dwarf in light of Joss Whedon's recent cancellation.

Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2174 on: February 23, 2021, 10:59:26 AM »
Just replace Buffy with an extra episode of Red Dwarf in light of Joss Whedon's recent cancellation.

Ideally the one with Rimmer raping McGruder.

Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2175 on: February 23, 2021, 12:03:35 PM »
I wonder what it would be like if they did a series without Craig Charles but with McGruder as a main character.

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Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2176 on: February 23, 2021, 01:31:04 PM »
It's already an hour! we're watching it immediately after our weekly buffy episode

If you're watching multiple episodes of a show upon a weekly basis, can you not just start with 'The End' and then watch 'Future Echoes' the following week?

I wonder what it would be like if they did a series without Craig Charles but with McGruder as a main character.

If it was Doug Naylor writing it; lots of jokes about shopping, ponies and menstrual cycles, given his track record when writing for female characters.

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Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2177 on: February 23, 2021, 04:44:50 PM »
I wonder what it would be like if they did a series without Craig Charles but with McGruder as a main character.

I think they should have a series without Lister but employ Craig Charles as McGruder.

Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2178 on: February 23, 2021, 04:51:47 PM »
I wonder what it would be like if they did a series without Craig Charles but with McGruder as a main character.
Red Dwarf but Rimmer is replaced by a different female hologram each ep...


purlieu

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Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2179 on: February 24, 2021, 06:34:53 PM »
The Inquisitor is a great story, but it's surprisingly light on jokes compared to just about any other episode. There's a section of about five minutes without a single laugh. I definitely wouldn't choose it as an introduction. Future Echoes or White Hole mate.

Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2180 on: February 24, 2021, 08:15:30 PM »
There's a section of about five minutes without a single laugh.

Season 7 says "Is that all?!"

Lemming

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Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2181 on: February 25, 2021, 03:11:34 AM »
S12E01 Cured

Intro sequence reads "Red Dwarf III" (with the classic logo) before the "III" morphs to "XII". SOME KIND OF SIGN???

Fun little opening scene where Cat learns how to play poker, and then the gang pick up a signal and head off. There's a dramatic takeoff sequence for Starbug, which serves to emphasise how shit and broken down it is. Got a good laugh, especially with the payoff where they can't turn left.

Nice bit of worldbuilding about "United America", and how America was able to establish a one world government. The posse head into a research centre where the objective was to eradicate "evil". Some of the patients are alive in cryostasis, apparently "cured" of evil - even Hitler. "Hitler. The more you hear about that guy..."

There's an explanation of why people from all across Earth's history are in cryostasis here. The explanation is obviously bollocks, but it works really well in universe, and leads to the uncomfortably funny joke about "beware dodgy-looking children's entertainers". Actually really liked this explanation.

One of the researchers is up and about and invites the crew for lunch with some of the cured evildoers. How many times have the crew met Hitler (or some equivalent) now? Timeslides, Meltdown, Out of Time...

The cureds explain that Earth sent an attack force to wipe out the station in the past, as a cure for evil would mean no war, and therefore no arms industry, a boom for 2nd and 3rd world economies, and "no one to exploit". They were able to survive, but are now marooned here.

Later, Hitler tries to bond with Lister, over the fact they both went to art school and both love guitar.

"I can't jam with you, okay?"

"...it's because I'm Hitler, isn't it?"

Funny scene, and also pretty interesting conceptually. Hitler insists he's cured and is no longer the person he once was, but... you wouldn't want to jam with Hitler, would you?

Lister relents and the two have fun, but Rimmer warns him off. "Playing soft rock with the man who caused World War 2?" Anyway, the base is in danger (in a one in a trillion chance, it's going to blow up in a freak accident on the exact day we found it) and it's time to get out of here. Rimmer and Cat suggest ditching the cureds and letting them die, but Lister and Kryten insist that they have a moral duty to save them.

The crew are knocked out and subjected to various tortures - being buried alive, castrated, drowned, and decapitated. Yeah, this happens very suddenly. Lister manages some badass escape from the castration machine and rescues his friends. They link up with the cureds, who insist that they're innocent of the whole kidnap/torture fiasco. The real culprit is the professor, who turns the cureds off (they're all droids), and holds the crew at gunpoint.

Turns out the droids were actually trying to treat the irredeemably evil professor, and were built for that purpose. Good joke about how "Hitler" didn't look anything like Hitler. Anyway, Cat - who was diagnosed with psychopathy by the psi-scanner - shoots the professor in the face. End.

Really enjoyed it up until the part where everyone got tortured, and the ending. The torture thing and the ending weren't abysmal or anything - the torture scenes were actually effectively creepy - but it was a pointless twist that distracted from the potentially much more interesting plot that was being set up, which posed the question of what "evil" is and whether or not someone can be suddenly cured of it (I think Star Trek: Voyager did an episode with a similar premise). And, more importantly, whether or not Lister was right to play guitar with Hitler. The "they're just droids in fancy dress" twist undermined most of what was interesting and fun about the episode beforehand. And also doesn't really make sense - if the professor just dressed the droids up like historic figures, then who was in the cryo-booths?

Anyway, it's a fun episode. Pretty comfortably sits alongside the best moments of Series XI. Only other thing I have to say is that Chris Barrie is really half-arsing it a lot in this episode, especially in the buried alive scene, but I can't complain too much since I find him underacting really funny for some reason. "Being buried alive is my worst fear. What could be worse than this? Nothing could be worse than this." Essentially all read out as one monotone sentence.

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Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2182 on: February 25, 2021, 06:54:38 AM »
Surely it’s “RED DWARF IIII” before the first two marks twizzle themselves into an X?

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Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2183 on: February 25, 2021, 06:55:21 AM »
 The guy playing Hitler was more pig than man he was hamming it up so much. That guitar playing scene would have sat nicely in series VIII.

purlieu

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Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2184 on: February 26, 2021, 09:53:09 PM »
I liked the stuff with Hitler, utterly OTT and camp as he was. The lighter bit is a real highlight for me (both "Ainsley Hitler" and "oh no, it is mine"), as well as "It's because I'm Hitler, isn't it?"
The Starbug startup sequence felt a bit cringey and VIII-ish but had a really good - and uncharacteristically underplayed - payoff.

The rest of it leaves me cold, though. Even the worst bits of XI I'd say through and enjoyed in a "hurray, new Red Dwarf" way, but after Cured I remember just thinking "was that it?" Nothing especially bad, just forgettable. The jamming with Hitler scene feels like such a set piece that it stands out in a very awkward way - if it was 30 seconds it would probably work for me, but the full song just feels like Doug was pushing for it to be the big memorable scene of the series or something. The sudden flip to them being tortured (in ways that don't really say anything about the characters, despite apparently being their worst fears) and then managing to escape in the space of about two minutes, then the final reveal of them all being robots... it totally falls apart. Once again Doug trying to do too much in half an hour. There are lots of interesting ideas in the episode and they're all brushed away in favour of some nonsense attempt at making tension.

Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2185 on: February 26, 2021, 10:28:41 PM »
The song Lister and Hitler jam to was originally going to be Africa by Toto but for some reason the record company didn't want Hitler jamming to their song.

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Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2186 on: February 27, 2021, 08:03:24 AM »
The song Lister and Hitler jam to was originally going to be Africa by Toto but for some reason the record company didn't want Hitler jamming to their song.

That’s interesting.  In the documentary they don’t name the song that they couldn’t use; where was it ultimately revealed?

Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2187 on: February 27, 2021, 08:08:30 AM »
That’s interesting.  In the documentary they don’t name the song that they couldn’t use; where was it ultimately revealed?

It has been mentioned in a few interviews since then. The official site mention it here. They actually got permission but it was rescinded when they went back and informed them that it would be Hitler playing it.

Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2188 on: February 27, 2021, 11:16:17 AM »
I couldn't make it through Cured, Samsara, Timewave or Twentica. I skipped them all a few minutes in due to my lack of interest. The OTT facial expressions of the Cured historical figures was enough for me. I very much enjoyed all the other XI/XII episodes though.

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Re: Red Dwarf rewatch
« Reply #2189 on: February 27, 2021, 11:41:02 AM »
That’s interesting.  In the documentary they don’t name the song that they couldn’t use; where was it ultimately revealed?

After the initial choice of song was revealed, Ryan Gage sang ‘Africa’ at the fan convention, in character as Hitler.  See here.

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