The Expanse (Season 5)

[druss]

Not as completely insane as the previous two episodes but solid enough.

I've had such a 180 on Bobbie, thought she was boring and one dimensional when she first appeared but she's one of my favourite characters now.

I've not read the books but I'd be interested to know what the people that have think of Amos, Wes Chatham's portrayal scares the fuck out of me but I love it.

[surreal]

I've not read the books but I'd be interested to know what the people that have think of Amos, Wes Chatham's portrayal scares the fuck out of me but I love it.

Amos is great - at first glance a psycho, but he really only goes at people he doesn't like who deserve it, he has a moral compass definitely.  They've done him pretty well from the books - the opening ep where he took on the guys on the ship for trying to scam people he'd only met a couple of minutes earlier is spot on and also shows his character as I outlined it.  He and Avasarala are spot on perfect casting.

[Poobum]

I don't know if it's my bias, but it's a great show in bringing initially unlikable characters and developing them. Clarissa Mao is a character I had no time for, and now I'm invested in where she ends up. Ashford was another, who just seemed like an antagonistic foil for Drummer, who turned into a really great representation of the belters trying to turn away from the old hate and recriminations to make a better world. I suppose knowing the payoff, you had to be invested in him, but he's up there as my favourites. I can even see Inaros' motivations, and his reaction to Naomi hasn't been overplayed. He's not forgotten the betrayal, but really it's a distraction he knows he can do without. That he's a man with a purpose and isn't existing purely to be the bad guy to Naomi, but is another part of a complex and developing new order is what's saved the whole family reunions stuff for me.

[druss]

I don't know if it's my bias, but it's a great show in bringing initially unlikable characters and developing them. Clarissa Mao is a character I had no time for, and now I'm invested in where she ends up. Ashford was another, who just seemed like an antagonistic foil for Drummer, who turned into a really great representation of the belters trying to turn away from the old hate and recriminations to make a better world. I suppose knowing the payoff, you had to be invested in him, but he's up there as my favourites. I can even see Inaros' motivations, and his reaction to Naomi hasn't been overplayed. He's not forgotten the betrayal, but really it's a distraction he knows he can do without. That he's a man with a purpose and isn't existing purely to be the bad guy to Naomi, but is another part of a complex and developing new order is what's saved the whole family reunions stuff for me.

It's this depth that makes it such a good show. I've seen it described as Game of Thrones in space, which I can understand with all of the various factions, but I think there's even more to it than that. The villains have a bit more depth than the likes of Joffrey, Ramsey and the Mountain.

Sad it's ending after season 6, but if it ends well it will be something I re-watch over and over, which isn't something that can be said about Game of Thrones, knowing how it ends.

[surreal]

I don't know if it's my bias, but it's a great show in bringing initially unlikable characters and developing them. Clarissa Mao is a character I had no time for, and now I'm invested in where she ends up. Ashford was another, who just seemed like an antagonistic foil for Drummer, who turned into a really great representation of the belters trying to turn away from the old hate and recriminations to make a better world. I suppose knowing the payoff, you had to be invested in him, but he's up there as my favourites. I can even see Inaros' motivations, and his reaction to Naomi hasn't been overplayed. He's not forgotten the betrayal, but really it's a distraction he knows he can do without. That he's a man with a purpose and isn't existing purely to be the bad guy to Naomi, but is another part of a complex and developing new order is what's saved the whole family reunions stuff for me.

Ashford is a bit different in the books, and Drummer is kind of a mash up of her and a couple other characters.  The books are worth a look if you like reading, they are less mashed together than the TV show so for example the first book is really just Miller and Holden, none of the Earth stuff, and it ends with the Eros/Venus stuff, which was season 2 on TV

[checkoutgirl]

I'm on series 3 episode 13 so the wrong place for this but I'll just throw this in here. I've liked elements of the show up to now with one or two wow moments per series but my brain is starting to reject this show now. I just don't understand anyone's motives properly and haven't since the middle of series 1. Why is everyone just flying straight into the ring thing? What's going on? The script and story seem a bit silly and I find that hard to get past. There are times where the word "protomolecule" pops up too many times, can't they think of another term for it?

Dominique Tripper I find an unconvincing actress. The effects are fantastic and I appreciate the hard science of it but that's about it.

What am I missing and why is it so highly rated? I found plot holes in series 1 and 2 and I can't understand why anyone is doing anything. I'd appreciate if someone could explain what's so good about it so maybe I can get back into it but I'm really struggling to give a shit about it now.

I remember enjoying Babylon 5 in the 90s and when I watched the 80s version of Battlestar Galactica a couple of years ago I enjoyed it so I'm assuming it's not that I just don't like science fiction.

[druss]

I'm on series 3 episode 13 so the wrong place for this but I'll just throw this in here. I've liked elements of the show up to now with one or two wow moments per series but my brain is starting to reject this show now. I just don't understand anyone's motives properly and haven't since the middle of series 1. Why is everyone just flying straight into the ring thing? What's going on? The script and story seem a bit silly and I find that hard to get past. There are times where the word "protomolecule" pops up too many times, can't they think of another term for it?

Dominique Tripper I find an unconvincing actress. The effects are fantastic and I appreciate the hard science of it but that's about it.

What am I missing and why is it so highly rated? I found plot holes in series 1 and 2 and I can't understand why anyone is doing anything. I'd appreciate if someone could explain what's so good about it so maybe I can get back into it but I'm really struggling to give a shit about it now.

I remember enjoying Babylon 5 in the 90s and when I watched the 80s version of Battlestar Galactica a couple of years ago I enjoyed it so I'm assuming it's not that I just don't like science fiction.

If you are at the end of series 3 and it hasn't clicked then it's not going to and probably just isn't for you. Particularly if you don't like the P word haha. There's nothing anyone can say if you aren't sold after 30 odd hours of a show that will suddenly make you go "oh I see, yeah it's fucking brilliant in that case".

Dominique Tripper is the weakest link though, I'm with you on that. Along with Steven Strait.

[checkoutgirl]

If you are at the end of series 3 and it hasn't clicked then it's not going to and probably just isn't for you. Particularly if you don't like the P word haha. There's nothing anyone can say if you aren't sold after 30 odd hours of a show that will suddenly make you go "oh I see, yeah it's fucking brilliant in that case".

Dominique Tripper is the weakest link though, I'm with you on that. Along with Steven Strait.

Cheers. Yeah Strait is another one. But they're often working with a bizarre and unbelievable premise. The belter accent is another thing that stretches credulity and tests my suspension of disbelief abilities to beyond breaking point. I suppose I'll bin it which is a shame because the rail guns and Rocinante manoeuvres were enjoyable.

I read someone saying that in the end of series 4 or 5 that it was set up nicely for the final season and that's what kept me going but I just don't know why half the cast don't just fuck off somewhere for an easier life. It doesn't make sense to me from that perspective.

[Mobius]

I sort of don't mind Steven Strait, he plays the boring protagonist like it's a Mass Effect game or something. He's like a husk of a man cus he's seen some protomolecule stuff.

I hate the Belter accents. Like I get the purpose, but they just sound shite. I find the Naomi actor a bit rubbish, and most of them really. Fred Johnson, Anderson Dawes were alright.

Best character is Bobbie Draper and Avasarala

I'm finding Amos' Baltimore journey boring. Considering how FUCKED earth is from nukes, it's not really coming across much.

I wish they'd just dump all the episodes at once, finding it a bit of a drag.

Hope they go through one of those gates soon.

[earl_sleek]

I like the Belter cant. It's no more silly than a lot of real world creoles which might sound strange to a native English speaker.

I think Tipper has improved a lot throughout the series, though I possibly have a soft spot for her due to fancying Naomi.

I'd put Drummer and Ashford up there with Bobbie and Avasarala as top characters.

[druss]

Cheers. Yeah Strait is another one. But they're often working with a bizarre and unbelievable premise. The belter accent is another thing that stretches credulity and tests my suspension of disbelief abilities to beyond breaking point. I suppose I'll bin it which is a shame because the rail guns and Rocinante manoeuvres were enjoyable.

I read someone saying that in the end of series 4 or 5 that it was set up nicely for the final season and that's what kept me going but I just don't know why half the cast don't just fuck off somewhere for an easier life. It doesn't make sense to me from that perspective.

To be honest, the best stuff you've mostly seen now. Season 4 was a comparative slog, still enjoyed it but probably the least of the five seasons. Season 5 started phenomenally, probably the best run of episodes but it has seriously lagged since then. Hoping for a belter of a final episode (belter, get it? hahaha).

I sort of don't mind Steven Strait, he plays the boring protagonist like it's a Mass Effect game or something. He's like a husk of a man cus he's seen some protomolecule stuff.

I hate the Belter accents. Like I get the purpose, but they just sound shite. I find the Naomi actor a bit rubbish, and most of them really. Fred Johnson, Anderson Dawes were alright.

Best character is Bobbie Draper and Avasarala

I'm finding Amos' Baltimore journey boring. Considering how FUCKED earth is from nukes, it's not really coming across much.

I wish they'd just dump all the episodes at once, finding it a bit of a drag.

Hope they go through one of those gates soon.

I think there's daylight between Holden and Naomi in the acting stakes, and I suppose Holden is perfectly fine, if he was that bad as leading man then it would be impossible to watch. He's no where near the top of the reasons to watch it though.

Bobbie and Avasarala are fantastic, agreed, had a complete 180 on Bobbie as found her annoying when she first showed up but she's one of my favourites now. Looking forward to the inevitable re-watch and enjoying her stuff from the start.

I love the belter accents, or any of the other weird little quirks (Alex having a Texan accent).

Speaking of Alex, Cas Anvar is apparently not appearing in season six, which is annoying as I liked his character. Fuck's sake Cas, don't be a creep.

I like the Belter cant. It's no more silly than a lot of real world creoles which might sound strange to a native English speaker.

I think Tipper has improved a lot throughout the series, though I possibly have a soft spot for her due to fancying Naomi.

I'd put Drummer and Ashford up there with Bobbie and Avasarala as top characters.

To be fair, I've found Tipper bearable this season and was with her when she was struggling on her own in her ship, so she must have improved a lot as she would take me out of every scene in the early seasons.

Drummer is great, as was Ashford.



I have found myself being a bit racist towards belters this season, need to remember that some of them are my favourites.

[earl_sleek]

A lot of the Belters have been annoyingly wrongheaded and stubborn throughout the series, often to their own detriment. I like that they have that depth and variety, it makes them feel like a real culture. Lesser shows would have just depicted them as a stereotypical downtrodden mass.

That cunt Marco is extremely hateable though, as is Karal.

Spoiler alert

It's a shame Cyn died, as he was the most sympathetic of Marco's followers.

[close]

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I guess it could be playing into themes of propaganda and Othering, but it seems faintly ridiculous that the Martian soldiers are meant to be so feared and respected, when their big tough guy boast is that they train in Earth-like gravity. Shirley it should be the other way around, with the Martians cacking themselves about these brutish Earthers. Also, it's hard to hear the name Bobbie Draper without thinking of Mad Men.

when I watched the 80s version of Battlestar Galactica a couple of years ago I enjoyed it so I'm assuming it's not that I just don't like science fiction.

If you've not already done so, you might want to check out the 2000s Battlestar Galactica remake. It's all on iPlayer, if you have access to that.

[NoSleep]

I'm finding Amos' Baltimore journey boring. Considering how FUCKED earth is from nukes, it's not really coming across much.

Those were just rocks they threw at the earth. Well, not just rocks; big fucking rocks. Surprised that the earth isn't completely in darkness from all the material raised into the air and that the lack of sun should be killing all the crops. So they must have been fairly small rocks, after all, if they're getting the science right about this.

[checkoutgirl]

Bobbie and Avasarala are fantastic

They're probably the best because in my opinion their motives make the most sense in a more consistent manner. Bobbie's my favourite because she plays the part well but also I never wonder what the fuck she's doing anything for, her motives seem clear. As for the Rocinante, it seems to be called on to do most of the transport and offensive moves in nearly everything. Surely there are other ships available.

And when whotsisname poisoned that Martian lad nobody batted an eyelid in the UN side. There was no follow up or repercussions for him at that time. I was hoping something would happen with Holden when he put his hand in the thing but nothing, well he saw the future and the past but meh. The whole thing just seems a bit stupid.

Also James Holden is the name of a very decent English progressive house producer which I'm guessing is lost on the makers of this show.

[Mobius]

Those were just rocks they threw at the earth. Well, not just rocks; big fucking rocks. Surprised that the earth isn't completely in darkness from all the material raised into the air and that the lack of sun should be killing all the crops. So they must have been fairly small rocks, after all, if they're getting the science right about this.

Oh that's right, it was big asteroids hidden with stealth tech.

I can't remember why Amos went to visit Peaches aka Clarissa Mao in the first place?

[NoSleep]

I think he made a connection with her because she was able to turn herself around and fight for the right side in the end. He likes people who have an affinity for goodness, as he struggles with himself in that area. In an earlier season it was implied that something had happened to his mind similar to those assistants that were working on the protomolecule under that mad scientist who Miller shot. When we first met him he is staying close to Naomi because she is another person who he sees makes good moral decisions.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Oh that's right, it was big asteroids hidden with stealth tech.

Don't be fooled by the rocks that they've got.

[Poobum]

Have found the recent run of episodes disappointing. The Naomi/Filip/Marco thread has been such a waste. The main characterization of Filip is to just exist around his parents as they lecture at him. Naomi just turning up and telling her son that the father that he hero worships is a cunt and has now turned him into a murderer is all tell, no show. It would actually need a scene or scenario of Filip being confronted with what he's done, like seeing Pallas be destroyed, knowing that blood is on his hands too. It's done nothing to build on Marco being this great leader either. We've got ships fighting, Pallas being attacked, I assume tenuous Belter alliances being built and maintained, but all we see is Marco bickering.

The collapse of Martian society I assume is still happening. The earther navy I assume is engaging the free navy, but we're not seeing it. All we're seeing is people on bridges and in conference rooms talking about stuff that has happened. It'd be like Sisko and crew describing the battle to retake DS9, or Sheridan and G'kar discussing the Shadow attack on the Narns without us seeing it, just exposition with no visceral impact.

I liked how the Amos thread started, but feel it's been wasted. He's back in the same role with Clarissa as he was with Naomi. It would've been better if Clarissa was slightly less redeemed, and that they were kinda bringing the better side out of each other. I was thinking of the scene where she says she won't help with the rocket unless they agree to take the other people with them, and Amos deciding to back her up, why not make it so Amos suggests it, but with some doubt, with her backing him up? Just a small change to suggest some growth.

Hopefully it all comes together at the end, but I think it'll still feel like an overly extended run of episodes just to get people into the places they need to be for the next part of the plot to happen, rather than the plot actually happening.

[druss]

Have found the recent run of episodes disappointing. The Naomi/Filip/Marco thread has been such a waste. The main characterization of Filip is to just exist around his parents as they lecture at him. Naomi just turning up and telling her son that the father that he hero worships is a cunt and has now turned him into a murderer is all tell, no show. It would actually need a scene or scenario of Filip being confronted with what he's done, like seeing Pallas be destroyed, knowing that blood is on his hands too. It's done nothing to build on Marco being this great leader either. We've got ships fighting, Pallas being attacked, I assume tenuous Belter alliances being built and maintained, but all we see is Marco bickering.

The collapse of Martian society I assume is still happening. The earther navy I assume is engaging the free navy, but we're not seeing it. All we're seeing is people on bridges and in conference rooms talking about stuff that has happened. It'd be like Sisko and crew describing the battle to retake DS9, or Sheridan and G'kar discussing the Shadow attack on the Narns without us seeing it, just exposition with no visceral impact.

I liked how the Amos thread started, but feel it's been wasted. He's back in the same role with Clarissa as he was with Naomi. It would've been better if Clarissa was slightly less redeemed, and that they were kinda bringing the better side out of each other. I was thinking of the scene where she says she won't help with the rocket unless they agree to take the other people with them, and Amos deciding to back her up, why not make it so Amos suggests it, but with some doubt, with her backing him up? Just a small change to suggest some growth.

Hopefully it all comes together at the end, but I think it'll still feel like an overly extended run of episodes just to get people into the places they need to be for the next part of the plot to happen, rather than the plot actually happening.

Yeah agreed, it's still very watchable but after such an explosive start to the season it has been relatively disappointing since.

[Sonny_Jim]

Oh I dunno, the walking-out-into-space-but-its-not-suicide was quite exciting.  But yeah, don't really enjoy the Marco character, maybe it's just the actor but it feels very much like video game acting.

Clarissa Mao I just don't fucking get.  Maybe I missed something but I have the following questions:

Why does Amos give a shit about her?  All I seem to remember is that she's the baddy, she causes a lot of shit for Holden and crew, gets caught.  Then Amos is like 'Hey, I should go see that person who tried to kill my Captain'.  What did I miss?

Oh and that fucking cop-out in the last episode where they didn't show her fighting off the baddies at the shuttle entrance.  I mean, I get it as the episode didn't really need any more action scenes.  It felt weird that all of a sudden all the bad guys are dead, she's on the floor, but then 20 seconds later she's totally fine and like 'Yup, let's fly this ship', which is pressing a single button.

Grrrrrrrrr

p.s  Amos is clearly the best character, followed by whoever Thomas Jane played.

[NoSleep]

Why does Amos give a shit about her?  All I seem to remember is that she's the baddy, she causes a lot of shit for Holden and crew, gets caught.  Then Amos is like 'Hey, I should go see that person who tried to kill my Captain'.  What did I miss?

The bit where she turned it all around and saved the day.

https://expanse.fandom.com/wiki/Abaddon%27s_Gate_(episode)

Abaddon's Gate starts from Clarissa's point of view, she is observing Holden trying to talk to Miller. At first, Holden's attempts to talk Miller are without luck. Eventually though, from the camera view watching the prisoners, Holden's conversation appears to be with no one. After a bit of back and forth with himself, Holden goes to the camera and claims he know how to fix the situation. Holden explains that the Ring Station is considering any ship to be a threat after the skiff was blown up with a nuclear device. Holden believes, if they turn off all the fusion reactors in the system, they will be able to lower the security on the ring station, releasing anyone who has been caught over the speed limit.

On the bridge, in reaction to Holden's plan, Ashford sends Diogo to stop Holden, Naomi and Drummer. When the bridge crew hears Drummer and Holden explain why they should shut down the reactors, Ashford disagrees and continues with his plan of firing the communication laser. When Grigori, hero of the belt, comes forward and asks Ashford to at least try shutting down the reactor, Ashford shoots Grigori, killing him. The MCRN Captain, Chandra Lucas, responds by instructing Bobbie's team to stop Monica's group from broadcasting at the substation. Clarissa, who is on the command deck after being released from captivity because she is an electrician, gets Ashford to remove the chemical restraint around her bicep.

When the laser finally charges up, Ashford fires, but misses the ring. He immediately demands to line up for a second shot. During this time, the other ships in the system begin to shut down their fusion cores. Before Ashford fires, Clarissa throws a guard across the room, and dives quickly toward Ashford to tackle him. After momentarily knocking out Ashford, Clarissa leaps toward the power relay box containing the power modules she learned about earlier in the season. Applying the tip Ren taught her, Clarissa reverses the power buffer, causing a cascading effect, leading the power to shut down throughout the ship.

When power comes back, gates around the Slow Zone which had previously been unseen or dormant begin to open up. Any of the conflicts that were in progress aboard the ship cease.

[Sonny_Jim]

Thanks for that.  Shit, maybe I need to rewatch the last couple episodes of season 3.  Either I've missed an episode or was so baked I fell asleep halfway through it.  Don't remember Klaes Ashford being spaced either, is that the same episode?

[NoSleep]

No, he makes it all the way to the end of season 4.

[surreal]

Yeah agreed, it's still very watchable but after such an explosive start to the season it has been relatively disappointing since.

Yeah, having read just past this point in the books I'd have expected them to get the crew back together by now but I guess they're saving all the fun of that for the last ep - shame it may have put a few people off a bit.

[NoSleep]

There's has been a lot of marking time before the inevitable reunion this season.

[druss]

Yeah agreed, it's still very watchable but after such an explosive start to the season it has been relatively disappointing since.

I have to emphasise the "relatively" here. Even the worst episodes are 1000 times better than any recent episode of Star Trek Discovery.

It felt like this was going to be the best season out of all 5 after such a strong start and it's stumbled along a bit since then. Maybe my expectations were too high after the first few episodes, but again, even at it's worst there's not a better sci fi show out there right now (that I'm aware of anyway, I welcome any recommendations).

[Sonny_Jim]

There's has been a lot of marking time before the inevitable reunion this season.

Aye, been feeling that as well.  Worth it for getting to know a bit more of Amos's past though.  It can't be all flying around in the Rocci being all bad ass and shit.

[earl_sleek]

I wonder if releasing one episode a week has contributed to that feeling? I can't help but think season 5 is one that would benefit from binging.

[Sonny_Jim]

As noted earlier in this thread, I think binge watching it kinda spoiled it for me.  I'd get toward the end of the series and the last couple of episodes I'd blast through and not pay enough attention.  TBH part of me prefers the whole '2-3 episodes to start then one per week' thing that streaming platforms have fallen into.  GIves me something to look forward to.