Author Topic: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men  (Read 28161 times)

Retinend

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Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #60 on: September 30, 2020, 01:31:14 PM »


The joke is too perfect to resist, I know... but in my opinion it is only helping Trump to spread such memes, portraying the debate - I would say inaccurately - as equal in the "yelling" department. In my opinion there is no comparison between how many times Trump interrupted or raised his voice vs how many times Biden interrupted or raised his voice.

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Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #61 on: September 30, 2020, 01:33:39 PM »
If you still can't decide, even at this slow-learner stage, who is the better candidate for US President out of these two then you are not on the left. You are facilitating fascism.

One guy is doddery and imperfect and will probably not last the term. The other one openly supports white nationalist militias.

<the Politics remedial class plead for extra time to weigh the options>

Deciding on the candidates isn't as simple as confining your thoughts on each individual, but on the impact of their election in the short and medium term.

Obviously doddering nearly dead Biden is a better face value option than Trump (and even then only if you're American or European) as a person, politician and President.

But there is also the possibility Trump could preside over such a disaster if he is relected that the 2028 election presents a clear opportunity for the left and therefore one for a meaningful change in direction rather than being stuck in a centrist holding pattern. That doesn't mean I would prefer the disaster, I would prefer the left to make further strides through a cohesive non-party political campaign on an issue that captures the imaginations of those not traditionally on the left too.

Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #62 on: September 30, 2020, 01:37:46 PM »
It's not benefit of the doubt. I'm confident in my interpretation. And I've already said that what he was doing, trying to avoid condemning them, was massively racist. He's a racist, fascistic cunt. 

I read somewhere that the "stand back and stand by" were part of his preparation as he knew the question was coming. This sort of makes it less likely that he simply said something badly. They were chosen words

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Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #63 on: September 30, 2020, 01:39:15 PM »
I read somewhere that the "stand back and stand by" were part of his preparation as he knew the question was coming. This sort of makes it less likely that he simply said something badly. They were chosen words

"I read somewhere"! 🙄

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Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #64 on: September 30, 2020, 01:42:36 PM »
The joke is too perfect to resist, I know... but in my opinion it is only helping Trump to spread such memes, portraying the debate - I would say inaccurately - as equal in the "yelling" department. In my opinion there is no comparison between how many times Trump interrupted or raised his voice vs how many times Biden interrupted or raised his voice.

I disagree. The main attack against biden is that he’s a doddery old bloke. If he’s “credited” with being just as shouty and combative as trump then that undermines that line of attack.

No one is mad keen for a biden presidency, but at least he isn’t a tinpot fascist. That’s the better of the two options.

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Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #65 on: September 30, 2020, 02:02:16 PM »
Is it beyond ridiculous to wonder if the Biden team will consult with a child behavioural expert in preparation for the next debate?

Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #66 on: September 30, 2020, 02:08:30 PM »
Is it beyond ridiculous to wonder if the Biden team will consult with a child behavioural expert in preparation for the next debate?

If it stops Biden sniffing their hair I’m all for it.

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Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #67 on: September 30, 2020, 02:09:08 PM »
Deciding on the candidates isn't as simple as confining your thoughts on each individual, but on the impact of their election in the short and medium term.

Obviously doddering nearly dead Biden is a better face value option than Trump (and even then only if you're American or European) as a person, politician and President.

But there is also the possibility Trump could preside over such a disaster if he is relected that the 2028 election presents a clear opportunity for the left and therefore one for a meaningful change in direction rather than being stuck in a centrist holding pattern. That doesn't mean I would prefer the disaster, I would prefer the left to make further strides through a cohesive non-party political campaign on an issue that captures the imaginations of those not traditionally on the left too.

Or there's the possibility that another four years of having white nationalist millenarians in the White House will mean that there isn't another election in 2028.

It's already probably too late. Leaving it later will not help.

Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #68 on: September 30, 2020, 02:09:43 PM »
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is when, in response to what the chief of the F.B.I said about Antifa being an idea, Trump said, 'Well, he's gone.'

That's astonishing, no?

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Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #69 on: September 30, 2020, 02:10:53 PM »
I disagree. The main attack against biden is that he’s a doddery old bloke. If he’s “credited” with being just as shouty and combative as trump then that undermines that line of attack.

No one is mad keen for a biden presidency, but at least he isn’t a tinpot fascist. That’s the better of the two options.

Yeah. I always said I'd vote for the Tories if fascists were the only other option. The US literally faces that choice in November.

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Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #70 on: September 30, 2020, 02:11:35 PM »
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is when, in response to what the chief of the F.B.I said about Antifa being an idea, Trump said, 'Well, he's gone.'

That's astonishing, no?

Is there context for this? I don't quite understand what's happened.

Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #71 on: September 30, 2020, 02:12:32 PM »
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is when, in response to what the chief of the F.B.I said about Antifa being an idea, Trump said, 'Well, he's gone.'

That's astonishing, no?

I’m pretty sure he said “he’s wrong”. Unless he said “he’s gone” a separate time, I definitely heard the former.

Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #72 on: September 30, 2020, 02:13:14 PM »
There's a possibility that Trump winning brings about such a shock to the system that it precipitates global revolution then a 1000 years of love, peace, harmony, and justice. It's just such a remote and dumb possibility that it's not really worth considering.

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Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #73 on: September 30, 2020, 02:17:03 PM »
Deciding on the candidates isn't as simple as confining your thoughts on each individual, but on the impact of their election in the short and medium term.

Obviously doddering nearly dead Biden is a better face value option than Trump (and even then only if you're American or European) as a person, politician and President.

But there is also the possibility Trump could preside over such a disaster if he is relected that the 2028 election presents a clear opportunity for the left and therefore one for a meaningful change in direction rather than being stuck in a centrist holding pattern. That doesn't mean I would prefer the disaster, I would prefer the left to make further strides through a cohesive non-party political campaign on an issue that captures the imaginations of those not traditionally on the left too.

Or Trump makes any generic centrist Dem cunt look great by comparison, whereas Biden failing to do anything useful makes it easier to point out how neither party is helping regular people and a real left alternative is needed.

Given that chaos under Trump is the only certainty, I'd rather sack off the accelerationist theorising and not put POC or LGBT+ or poor people at any further risk of Trump's fuckery (not to mention the ongoing Supreme Court concerns).

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Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #74 on: September 30, 2020, 02:52:23 PM »
No matter who wins, I don't think the alt-right or BLM or antifa are going to pack up and go home, work done.

Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #75 on: September 30, 2020, 03:00:07 PM »
I just can't plausibly see how Trump winning somehow has some better impact much later down the line, if it was going to teach the democrats a lesson, it would have done that last time.

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Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #76 on: September 30, 2020, 03:04:59 PM »
In hindsight, I can almost get their logic of running Clinton against Trump. She's the closest they have to a celebrity / personality of his stature. Still, it failed miserably, and there's no excuse this time. Christ, I would have liked to have seen Bernie debating Trump last night.

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Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #77 on: September 30, 2020, 03:14:15 PM »
Deciding on the candidates isn't as simple as confining your thoughts on each individual, but on the impact of their election in the short and medium term.

Obviously doddering nearly dead Biden is a better face value option than Trump (and even then only if you're American or European) as a person, politician and President.

But there is also the possibility Trump could preside over such a disaster if he is relected that the 2028 election presents a clear opportunity for the left and therefore one for a meaningful change in direction rather than being stuck in a centrist holding pattern. That doesn't mean I would prefer the disaster, I would prefer the left to make further strides through a cohesive non-party political campaign on an issue that captures the imaginations of those not traditionally on the left too.

That never happens though. Things just get worse, particularly for the worst-off. The better candidate isn't perfect but he is better. Voting Trump will not lead to a socialist utopia. It will lead to poor people living worse lives than they otherwise would and dying younger.

Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #78 on: September 30, 2020, 03:21:19 PM »
Deciding on the candidates isn't as simple as confining your thoughts on each individual, but on the impact of their election in the short and medium term.

Obviously doddering nearly dead Biden is a better face value option than Trump (and even then only if you're American or European) as a person, politician and President.

But there is also the possibility Trump could preside over such a disaster if he is relected that the 2028 election presents a clear opportunity for the left and therefore one for a meaningful change in direction rather than being stuck in a centrist holding pattern. That doesn't mean I would prefer the disaster, I would prefer the left to make further strides through a cohesive non-party political campaign on an issue that captures the imaginations of those not traditionally on the left too.

What the fuck! Could Trump's first term have been any worse? The entire world is collapsing and we ended up with Joe Biden. Certain sections of the left need to get rid of this fantasy that the mere fact of Biden losing will solve everything. (Agreed with the rest of your post though.)

Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #79 on: September 30, 2020, 03:28:33 PM »
Maybe I'll feel differently when they debate foreign policy: that's the one area where Trump's scorecard appears to my limited understanding to be (relatively) different and an improvement on miserable business as usual.

Not to derail the thread, but I always feel need to point out that this is a massive con job and the exact opposite of reality. Trump has accelerated all of the worst aspects of American foreign policy and can only claim to have "not started a new war" in the same limited sense as Obama, insofar as the U.S. is already militarily occupying half the world. The Trump administration is also actively facilitating probably the single worst military disaster in recent memory in Yemen.

It's all very depressing. Back in 2016 I thought the only conceivable leftist rationale for wanting Clinton to lose was that it might reinvigorate the mainstream antiwar movement, which largely died when Obama became the person in charge, as people on the left would be more willing to criticize Trump than Clinton. Instead the last four years have proven that barely anybody in this country or on the left gives a shit about American imperialism.

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Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #80 on: September 30, 2020, 03:37:21 PM »
EDIT: cba

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Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #81 on: September 30, 2020, 03:47:53 PM »
^ Biden should steal that line.

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Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #83 on: September 30, 2020, 04:29:43 PM »
It's all very depressing. Back in 2016 I thought the only conceivable leftist rationale for wanting Clinton to lose was that it might reinvigorate the mainstream antiwar movement, which largely died when Obama became the person in charge, as people on the left would be more willing to criticize Trump than Clinton. Instead the last four years have proven that barely anybody in this country or on the left gives a shit about American imperialism.
I don't think that's true. I do, admittedly, have a lot of left-wing friends, but there's always discussion about US imperialism around me. That the media don't want to report on it any more, because both "sides" would do largely the same thing so who cares, might be a more accurate thing to say.

Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #84 on: September 30, 2020, 04:33:18 PM »
That never happens though. Things just get worse, particularly for the worst-off. The better candidate isn't perfect but he is better. Voting Trump will not lead to a socialist utopia. It will lead to poor people living worse lives than they otherwise would and dying younger.

Exactly, all it does is push the Overton window further to the right, making recovery all the harder.

Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #85 on: September 30, 2020, 04:33:30 PM »
I don't think that's true. I do, admittedly, have a lot of left-wing friends, but there's always discussion about US imperialism around me. That the media don't want to report on it any more, because both "sides" would do largely the same thing so who cares, might be a more accurate thing to say.

No doubt they have the right views, but it is generally an afterthought these days. The Sanders campaign is the perfect example.

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Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #86 on: September 30, 2020, 04:52:05 PM »
No doubt they have the right views, but it is generally an afterthought these days. The Sanders campaign is the perfect example.
There's a few weasel words in those two sentences. Sanders has criticised the coup in Bolivia and while he's not perfect, he's talked about the US's interventions overseas way more than any other mainstream politician.

I live in the USA and am involved in left-wing politics over here. I can't make you believe me, but the left talks about anti-imperialism a lot.

Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #87 on: September 30, 2020, 04:55:50 PM »
There's a few weasel words in those two sentences. Sanders has criticised the coup in Bolivia and while he's not perfect, he's talked about the US's interventions overseas way more than any other mainstream politician.

I live in the USA and am involved in left-wing politics over here. I can't make you believe me, but the left talks about anti-imperialism a lot.

Ironically the old right wing mantra of non intervention has now become the left wing option.

Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #88 on: September 30, 2020, 04:56:37 PM »
STOP SAYING BIDEN WILL ‘MOST LIKELY WIN’ STUPID GUARDIAN HAVE YOU LEARNED NOTHING:

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/30/trump-debate-national-humiliation-analysis

Re: US Elections 2020 III - Mo Cuntery for Old Men
« Reply #89 on: September 30, 2020, 05:04:58 PM »
is it not the libs who couldn’t give less of a fuck about foreign policy? that’s the centrists mate. admittedly my experience is recent so maybe it used to be different but the US left seem, at worst, fine on foreign policy these days.

prime example would be the power of the Israel lobby weakening over the last few years.

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