Author Topic: Not hating any music  (Read 1486 times)

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2020, 04:49:49 PM »
I agree with purlieu's last paragraph up to a point. However, there are times of the year where songs you dislike are forced on you and you can't escape them through their ubiquity. Then, having to stomach their sheer level of conceit, whether its demographic tickbox checking in the lyrics or the tediously derivative music (which in pop now directly steals a few melodies from existing songs on an industrial scale) knowing that the whole experience is alienating, counter to pretty much every value you look for in a piece of music (and yet hugely popular) and not designed for me, yet knowing I cannot escape it all is draining, exhausting.

It's best to just stop going anywhere near things that make you feel that way.

I would say I'm extremely intolerant of lots of music. In fact I can remember saying so on dates and this seemed to be more of a conversation starter that saying "I have a wide taste in music, I like lots of music really" - it's not true, I don't. Hatred is an odd word that probably doesn't apply.

the

Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2020, 05:16:30 PM »
It does though, the music has to be integrated into the bigger picture. Take Joy Division, part of their appeal to me was the whole Factory “independent arty  outsider” image, the artwork, the lack of overt promotion, the disdain of commercialism and so on. The music had to be aligned though, it wouldn’t have worked if Erasure had been the main band.

Yeah it was part of their appeal to you, but if you took all that meta stuff (ie. stuff that isn't directly the music being made) and used it to form the basis of your factionalism and identity then I'd still say that that battle was virtually irrelevant to the merits or otherwise of the music itself (which is what most people's love or hatred of music revolves around). I just don't think dogmatic tribalism is as relevant or central to musical assessment as you made out. And if your point was that this used to be the case more, I'd say it's good that people don't tend to be so insular and blindly reactionary for those reasons anymore.

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2020, 05:54:18 PM »
I agree with purlieu's last paragraph up to a point. However, there are times of the year where songs you dislike are forced on you and you can't escape them through their ubiquity. Then, having to stomach their sheer level of conceit, whether its demographic tickbox checking in the lyrics or the tediously derivative music (which in pop now directly steals a few melodies from existing songs on an industrial scale) knowing that the whole experience is alienating, counter to pretty much every value you look for in a piece of music (and yet hugely popular) and not designed for me, yet knowing I cannot escape it all is draining, exhausting.
This is all true. I remember the last time I had a job in a place with a radio, and having to put up with some fucking Tinchy Strider song about five times a day, it did begin to drive me up the wall.
At the same time, I wouldn't then spend the time I'm not listening to it moaning about it. Well, I probably would have done back then, but nowadays I can't abide the idea of actually going out of my way to talk about something like that.

Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2020, 05:56:05 PM »
That said, hate is such a passionate word and I can't give this kind of music that level of passion. I have an aversion to it but I've no interest in spending my time disliking it. I may hate being forced to listen to it (on the odd occasion this has happened), but if I'm going to indulge any negative emotions than I'll save them for people who are damaging the lives of others. There's enough unpleasantness going around in the world and in my life as it is, without getting bogged down in actively hating things that are fundamentally irrelevant to my life.

Nailed it, pretty much.

I'd be more surprised to read about avant-garde (as opposed to more broadly underground) musicians hating pop music than them liking it. I think that's a weird generalisation.


Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2020, 05:57:12 PM »
I'm not entirely sure which artist I had in mind now... maybe it was one of the early industrial or noise artists (perhaps William Bennett of Whitehouse?), and even then I'm not certain

Writer of 'My Cock's On Fire' takes pride in setting himself against popular music shocker.

Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2020, 05:59:27 PM »
Yeah it was part of their appeal to you, but if you took all that meta stuff (ie. stuff that isn't directly the music being made) and used it to form the basis of your factionalism and identity then I'd still say that that battle was virtually irrelevant to the merits or otherwise of the music itself (which is what most people's love or hatred of music revolves around). I just don't think dogmatic tribalism is as relevant or central to musical assessment as you made out. And if your point was that this used to be the case more, I'd say it's good that people don't tend to be so insular and blindly reactionary for those reasons anymore.

If you said the same thing about politics you’d be called a beige centerist. There’s no rock against racism now because we’ve lost that sense of identity that used to exist.

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2020, 06:12:02 PM »
If you said the same thing about politics you’d be called a beige centerist.
That's because politics is about making important decisions that affect the lives of millions. Enjoying music for the actual music and ignoring everything around it that actually isn't music just makes you a music fan, rather than a fan of 'music culture'.

Brundle-Fly

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Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2020, 06:18:24 PM »
I only hate certain music when it’s thrust upon me. I’ve mellowed for the most part and don’t anymore subscribe to the notion that music has to be groundbreaking, entirely original and authentic to have any worth. Although obviously a bonus if the artist/ track does fill that criteria. It’s like being unchained from a toffee nosed sixth former.

The Mollusk

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Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2020, 06:30:53 PM »
There’s no rock against racism now because we’ve lost that sense of identity that used to exist.

Actually I think you'll find it's because we fixed racism years ago.

Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2020, 06:39:58 PM »
Actually I think you'll find it's because we fixed racism years ago.

Aye, you’re right, not sure how I missed that.

Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2020, 06:50:22 PM »
Writer of 'My Cock's On Fire' takes pride in setting himself against popular music shocker.

He's a massive fan of Italo disco as well, though and DJs the stuff. He also contributed to this piece on Lady Gaga: https://www.electronicbeats.net/live-for-the-applause-william-bennett-and-lisa-blanning-on-lady-gagas-artpop/ Contemporary to early Whitehouse releases he also played on some dreadful NWOBHM releases under the psuedonym John Streicher.

Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2020, 07:48:11 PM »
Contemporary to early Whitehouse releases he also played on some dreadful NWOBHM releases under the psuedonym John Streicher.
Did NOT know this, going to have to go digging now. Even the thought of it is amusing me.

Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2020, 10:58:01 PM »
My first proper real-life example of "good lord, this is what the kids are into?" was when I realised this was what the YouTube kids are into: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nKllakGRJM

Jedward were just ten years ahead of their time.

Jockice

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Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2020, 09:14:48 AM »
It's funny though; dig through old music press reviews and articles and you find many of the ones that are more tentative and less harshly judgemental have aged better than those that go the whole hog on a roasting.  There can be something airless about unequivocal dismissals, whereas reviews that at the time seemed tame or blandly considerate - because the reviewer's mind isn't made up - can end up looking perceptive and prescient.  In any case, second-guessing initial responses would be an important part of a good journo's 'critical facilities', you'd like to think.

I agree up to a point. I've never kept cuttings of my reviews etc but just thinking about some of the stuff I wrote makes me cringe. One of the first reviews I did was of Tangerine Dream live and I was extremely unpleasant about both them and their audience. Now I was a 20-year-old indie fan, so it wasn't my sort of stuff at all (and still isn't, although I can now see why people like them) but you know, I was trying to be Julie Burchill. No need for it really.

But reviews in the paper I worked for were usually all 'the sell-out crowd went wild at this great band playing a great concert' stuff so it took people by surprise (especially in the office. I was - and still am - fairly shy and unassuming in real life) but I couldn't see a way to write about music without being opinionated. I'm much more mellow now but if I was made to review something and thought it was crap I was jolly well going to say I thought it was crap.

I had loads of arguments with my bosses over the years because they just wanted me to cover big names in a positive way. I once reviewed Michael Jackson live and my review contained one vaguely critical line - which got cut out before it made the paper. And I wrote a totally positive review of a Paul McCartney concert in Liverpool and I got bollocked by my boss and the piece totally rewritten before I got back because apparently it wasn't positive enough. Short of sucking his cock I couldn't have been nicer to Macca. Or Jacko although I was too old for his tastes, But you know, both very talented men, both pop legends, both great live. Why would I slag them off? But saying they were utter perfection was taking it a bit far for my liking.

Meanwhile, they didn't want me to write about the local scene - or as they were regularly called 'your weirdo mates' - to the extent that I once wrote about a charity concert featuring several national names and one local band, whose name was totally expunged from the printed review. I had so many people annoyed about that I ended up getting a print-out of what I'd actually written and showing it to everyone who complained and telling them to write to the editor if they felt that strongly, but don't blame me. Of course when Pulp (who aren't the band mentioned above) became big the people above me suddenly became retrospective star spotters. They always knew they'd make it. Bollocks. Just bollocks. Didn't see any of them in the audience when they were playing at the Marples or the Hallamshire.

I've gone a bit off track there, but I'd still rather read an opinionated review (although I don't do that sort of stuff anymore) than a bland 'hey, they're good. But then so is everyone else' one. Interviews are another matter but a review that doesn't say anything might as well not exist.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 09:29:48 AM by Jockice »

Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2020, 09:20:09 AM »
My first proper real-life example of "good lord, this is what the kids are into?" was when I realised this was what the YouTube kids are into: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nKllakGRJM

Jedward were just ten years ahead of their time.

43 seconds and I had to bail. Did I hate it? I don't know I just don't want to think about it any more.

NoSleep

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Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2020, 09:32:57 AM »
My first proper real-life example of "good lord, this is what the kids are into?" was when I realised this was what the YouTube kids are into: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nKllakGRJM

Jedward were just ten years ahead of their time.

It's functional music but has absolutely nothing new to offer. Rick Beato did a video recently listening to and breaking down the current top ten[1]. There were a couple of tunes that had the exact same chord sequence running throughout (which was an unremarkable and common chord sequence generally). All of the songs seemed to cycle around four simple chords. The problem with criticising it is that obviously, if you take a sample of all music and make an average, the most popular is going to be the most average; they even have algorithms to predict this. Major record companies are always going to look for the most average thing they can find, then produce and promote it to the max because it will sell easily; they're not trying to appeal to music fans, just make loads of money.
 1. He comes across as a real corporate head in this; secretly hating it all but pretending its all good, which sums up your standard A&R stance.

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #46 on: October 01, 2020, 09:53:49 AM »
While I have no problem with four-chord music, it really has to be not those four chords. Literally the only time I can stand that sequence is ‘The Power of Good-Bye’ by Madonna.

Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2020, 11:18:51 AM »
This is all true. I remember the last time I had a job in a place with a radio, and having to put up with some fucking Tinchy Strider song about five times a day, it did begin to drive me up the wall.
At the same time, I wouldn't then spend the time I'm not listening to it moaning about it. Well, I probably would have done back then, but nowadays I can't abide the idea of actually going out of my way to talk about something like that.

About eight or nine years ago I worked in a tiny hospital records library where the radio was on blaring out Heart at full volume all day every day. You were not allowed to wear headphones so I could do nothing to blot it out. The constant grinding repetition of the playlist led to a genuinely bitter loathing of every song regardless of how inoffensive they might be out of that context. To this day I feel queasy every time I hear the intro to "Get Lucky".

To me it felt like a level of mental cruelty you'd expect from a North Korean Re-education Camp, but no-one else there seemed remotely bothered by it.

Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2020, 11:47:24 AM »
A lot of my favourite songs got ruined for me when I worked in an office in the US. Classic rock radio over there basically plays the same songs every day, "Bohemian Rhapsody" and "Wish You Were Here" being two I recall getting sick of. Had to spend the many years between leaving there avoiding them so that I could enjoy them again.

Brundle-Fly

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Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #49 on: October 01, 2020, 12:56:40 PM »
I agree up to a point. I've never kept cuttings of my reviews etc but just thinking about some of the stuff I wrote makes me cringe. One of the first reviews I did was of Tangerine Dream live and I was extremely unpleasant about both them and their audience. Now I was a 20-year-old indie fan, so it wasn't my sort of stuff at all (and still isn't, although I can now see why people like them) but you know, I was trying to be Julie Burchill. No need for it really.

But reviews in the paper I worked for were usually all 'the sell-out crowd went wild at this great band playing a great concert' stuff so it took people by surprise (especially in the office. I was - and still am - fairly shy and unassuming in real life) but I couldn't see a way to write about music without being opinionated. I'm much more mellow now but if I was made to review something and thought it was crap I was jolly well going to say I thought it was crap.

I had loads of arguments with my bosses over the years because they just wanted me to cover big names in a positive way. I once reviewed Michael Jackson live and my review contained one vaguely critical line - which got cut out before it made the paper. And I wrote a totally positive review of a Paul McCartney concert in Liverpool and I got bollocked by my boss and the piece totally rewritten before I got back because apparently it wasn't positive enough. Short of sucking his cock I couldn't have been nicer to Macca. Or Jacko although I was too old for his tastes, But you know, both very talented men, both pop legends, both great live. Why would I slag them off? But saying they were utter perfection was taking it a bit far for my liking.

Meanwhile, they didn't want me to write about the local scene - or as they were regularly called 'your weirdo mates' - to the extent that I once wrote about a charity concert featuring several national names and one local band, whose name was totally expunged from the printed review. I had so many people annoyed about that I ended up getting a print-out of what I'd actually written and showing it to everyone who complained and telling them to write to the editor if they felt that strongly, but don't blame me. Of course when Pulp (who aren't the band mentioned above) became big the people above me suddenly became retrospective star spotters. They always knew they'd make it. Bollocks. Just bollocks. Didn't see any of them in the audience when they were playing at the Marples or the Hallamshire.

I've gone a bit off track there, but I'd still rather read an opinionated review (although I don't do that sort of stuff anymore) than a bland 'hey, they're good. But then so is everyone else' one. Interviews are another matter but a review that doesn't say anything might as well not exist.

I see you edited your post. I imagined your old boss leaning over you whispering, "Lose all the stuff about you wishing Lyme disease on your former colleagues. By the way, I always knew Cornershop would get a number one hit "

Jockice

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Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #50 on: October 01, 2020, 01:03:01 PM »
I see you edited your post. I imagined your old boss leaning over you whispering, "Lose all the stuff about you wishing Lyme disease on your former colleagues. By the way, I always knew Cornershop would get a number one hit "

I've mentioned it before and no doubt I'll mention it again, but my old boss claimed in an editorial meeting that our paper had 'discovered' New Kids On The Block - because he had got me (unwillingly) to write a piece about them when they were at number three in the singles chart.

Over three decades on and that still amuses me.

Brundle-Fly

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Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #51 on: October 01, 2020, 01:09:59 PM »
He sounds like a right berk.

Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #52 on: October 01, 2020, 01:21:38 PM »
My first proper real-life example of "good lord, this is what the kids are into?" was when I realised this was what the YouTube kids are into: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nKllakGRJM

Jedward were just ten years ahead of their time.

Nothing that can't be improved with a bit of Phil Minton!

Jockice

  • I really have red hair. And a **********.
Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #53 on: October 01, 2020, 01:48:29 PM »
He sounds like a right berk.

Think Neil from The Office. Superficially a nice bloke but with a very unpleasant side. He even looked a bit like him. But he had a teenage daughter, therefore knew everything about pop music.

icehaven

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Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #54 on: October 01, 2020, 05:38:12 PM »
About eight or nine years ago I worked in a tiny hospital records library where the radio was on blaring out Heart at full volume all day every day. You were not allowed to wear headphones so I could do nothing to blot it out. The constant grinding repetition of the playlist led to a genuinely bitter loathing of every song regardless of how inoffensive they might be out of that context. To this day I feel queasy every time I hear the intro to "Get Lucky".

Really thought you meant the band Heart until I got to the end of the paragraph.
That's a good example of my earlier rant about how familiarity breeding contempt can be taken to extremes when it comes to music. I don't mind Get Lucky at all but if I was forced to listen to it 5-10 times a day I'm sure I'd hate it to death within a week.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #55 on: October 01, 2020, 07:36:01 PM »
More too alongside familiarity breeding contempt. Resentment at being encased in a sonic prison for hours at a time. A sense of alienation when reflecting on your own reaction, which then feeds in to a downward spiral.

Then eventually you calmly stab a librarian.

Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #56 on: October 02, 2020, 10:48:24 AM »
About eight or nine years ago I worked in a tiny hospital records library where the radio was on blaring out Heart at full volume all day every day. You were not allowed to wear headphones so I could do nothing to blot it out. The constant grinding repetition of the playlist led to a genuinely bitter loathing of every song regardless of how inoffensive they might be out of that context. To this day I feel queasy every time I hear the intro to "Get Lucky".

To me it felt like a level of mental cruelty you'd expect from a North Korean Re-education Camp, but no-one else there seemed remotely bothered by it.
I had a factory job like that for a bit, and I went through hating the same 15 songs being on rotation on the radio, and eventually arrived at a kind of manic, hysterical love for all 15 of them, especially "Man! I Feel Like a Woman!" by Shania Twain- to this day, all it takes is to hear Shania say "Let's go girls!" and my pupils turn the size of dinner plates and my hands start shaking and I start shout-singing the synth riff, and by the time the pedal steel guitar comes in towards in the end I'm a bloody wreck.

Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #57 on: October 02, 2020, 10:55:32 AM »
I think the only song I actively hate in the same way that I hate Hitler, Pol Pot, covidiots and paedophiles is 'Fairground' by Simply Red.

Oh, and that one with Jason Beaver and Ted Sheering.

Petey Pate

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Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #58 on: October 02, 2020, 11:23:17 AM »
It's functional music but has absolutely nothing new to offer. Rick Beato did a video recently listening to and breaking down the current top ten[1].
 1. He comes across as a real corporate head in this; secretly hating it all but pretending its all good, which sums up your standard A&R stance.

It's funny watching that and then seeing him enthuse about Jaco Pastorius in another video. The difference between his fake and genuine enthusiasm is quite obvious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjqSBU0v6TU

NoSleep

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Re: Not hating any music
« Reply #59 on: October 02, 2020, 12:04:14 PM »
The dead giveaway was the title of his followup video to the top ten one: "Why do boomers[1] hate pop music?"
 1. like Rick Beato

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