Author Topic: Musical opinions that you just don't understand  (Read 5244 times)

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2020, 11:21:34 PM »
Anyone who thinks "too poppy" is a negative.

Sebastian Cobb

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Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2020, 11:41:30 PM »
People that have no respect for DJ's at all and draw trite comparisons to projectionists (which tbf is an unseen art in itself). Wankers.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

  • a hopeless vanity... a stupefyingly futile conceit
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2020, 12:58:11 AM »
Anyone who thinks "too poppy" is a negative.

The worst. I once had an argument - I say 'argument', I gave up after about five exasperating minutes - with a man-bun wanker who insisted that any artist who doesn't write their own songs is worthless.

Obviously, like the smug git that I am, I cited the likes of Elvis, Sinatra, Dusty, Dionne Warwick and the Jackson 5 as examples of great artists who didn't write their own songs*. He just made some sort of harrumph noise before continuing to annoy everyone with his boring anecdotes about travelling the world. Later that evening, he played Redemption Song on my mate's acoustic guitar.

I know how cliched that sounds, but it's true. These people do actually exist. He looked like the bloke from Annie Hall who asks Diane Keaton to touch his heart with her foot.

* I stopped short of mentioning the Monkees**, because that would be like a red rag to a bull. He was the sort of prick who would come out with the mind-blowing observation that "When you think about it, right, The Beatles were the original boyband! Commercially-packaged music, just like Take That!"

** Who did write lots of their own songs, but imagine getting into a discussion with someone like that.

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2020, 01:36:54 AM »
The Monkees weren't about music. They were about rebellion. They were about political and social upheaval.

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2020, 02:01:14 AM »
The Monkees weren't about music. They were about rebellion. They were about political and social upheaval.

Mmmhhmmmm.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

  • a hopeless vanity... a stupefyingly futile conceit
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2020, 02:45:01 AM »
Urgh.

I loved The Simpsons in its pomp, but that's a shit, lazy joke.

Jockice

  • I really have red hair. And a **********.
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2020, 08:44:52 AM »
Speaking of my dad, he has a musical opinion I just don't understand, which is that music ended in about 1975. You can show him a song and, before anything else, he'll ask the year it was recorded. If the answer is anything later than 1975, he'll call it shit (sometimes slightly more politely than that) and start talking about one of the 10~ bands that existed pre-1975 which form virtually his whole musical world. Baffling. What makes this extra weird is that he'll very occasionally latch onto a more recent song and get really into it, but it's always something completely random with no apparent connection to the type of music he almost exclusively likes. Recently Missing by Everything But The Girl came on the radio and he thought it was fantastic, but any attempts to introduce him to any of the countless virtually-identical bands/songs from the same genre and same era are met with derision. NO LOGIC BEHIND IT

My dad (born in 1932) didn't like pop music at all (he was more into folk and latterly bagpipes) but loved Germ Free Adolescents by X-Ray Spex. But apart from that he didn't express any favourable opinion on anything...until Beats International's Dub Be Good To Me was on Top Of The Pops. During which he said: "That's really good. What was that other song I liked? Germ Free something." Since it was a dozen years earlier I forgave him for not remembering the full title.

And that was it until 2004, in the wake of my mum's death when he was watching a lot of late night telly. But I never expected his first words to me on a visit to be: "Have you heard of Shaun Ryder?" Turned out he'd chanced upon this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V89gkAYpuk4 and enjoyed it so much he'd stayed up and recorded it for me when they'd repeated it a few hours later. Watching that with my early-70s father is one of the most surreal hours of my life.

Jockice

  • I really have red hair. And a **********.
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2020, 08:52:26 AM »
Dangerous ground you're treading there, Spidey. I can see this thread very quickly descending into "popular artists you don't like" territory, and the inevitable subsequent replies of "Ah but have you tried listening to this song in particular though?" Nightmare zone.

No, I'm sure that wouldn't happen. And I wouldn't express my dislike for that smug little tit Neil Hannon, the only popular artist that every time I see him on TV I actually want to hit him, on a thread like this anyway. No way at all

Jockice

  • I really have red hair. And a **********.
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2020, 09:21:43 AM »
I think there's a story on here somewhere about someone naming their favourite Elvis Costello album and the other bloke being disgusted because it was a "pop album"- something like that anyway. That mentality I can't understand.

That was me! And it was Punch The Clock. Bloody pop album! I should listen to This Year's Model! Quality Songwriting! Etc.

I actually broached that subject with the bloke I was arguing with (a friend's older brother) and he claims not to remember it. Both me and his brother remember it very well though. I especially remember thinking: "If he pokes his finger into my face one more time I'm going to bite it."

Clownbaby

  • Toe to tip, this is a Bart
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2020, 10:40:27 AM »
I have a friend who doesn't like female vocals. She doesn't seem to have a specific reason why though. I've asked her if it's a particular type of female vocal she doesn't like and she couldn't say. No idea. There's so many different kinds of female singing voice out there that maybe in my friend's case it's not the sound of a lasses voice she doesn't like, but the fact that it's not a cute lad frontman that she can have a lil crush on cause his pop-punk vocals are so good. I dunno.

To me, I can understand being less drawn to female vocals because there is more of a chance you'll hear shrill bits and overkill vocal acrobatics and girlie baby-voice but there's so many female singers with a lower, darker register (the type of female vocals I prefer) if Ariana Grande shrillness isn't yer hing

I don't really understand people who can only see a song as ''good'' if it isn't ''accessible''. I have a friend who exclusively likes trippy and difficult outsidery long meandering music and drops the word ''accessible'' to describe any music he finds ''uninteresting."  I actually find a lot of the music he listens to uninteresting. Each to their own but I don't like when people link up ''catchy'' or ''danceable'' with ''pedestrian'', as he often does

Also he flat out said to me that ''people only like Amy Winehouse because she died'' after he'd been absolutely bumming Kurt Cobain for 2 hours and I dared to mention a singer I like who also died young. I guess that was a more blunt and dismissive way of saying that people tend to romanticise singers who died before their music went crap, but I was doing no such thing, and it kind of killed the conversation. I wonder why Nirvana don't fall into his trap of being too accessible given how insanely popular and easy to understand they are. That's odd. And yet to him Pixies are ''derivative." I can't peg his taste at all
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 11:08:17 AM by Clownbaby »

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2020, 10:54:50 AM »
I had a friend at university who would only listen to the first minute of songs, even if he really liked them. He was a slightly eccentric fine artist and felt that songs said everything they needed to say in the first 60 seconds or less, and the rest was just waste.
 
Might be more common these days with streaming/playlists but this was back when you had to actually sit next to the CD player and press the "next" button.

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2020, 10:56:20 AM »
I don't understand the liking for really cheap and feeble sounding electronic drum beats in certain (Radiohead used them a bit) music. It's like someone recorded themselves playing tippy tappy drums on some pans and then digitised it, I know that lo-fi is a sound that was popular for a while but those drum sounds are just fucking rubbish.

Clownbaby

  • Toe to tip, this is a Bart
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2020, 11:00:43 AM »
I don't understand the liking for really cheap and feeble sounding electronic drum beats in certain (Radiohead used them a bit) music. It's like someone recorded themselves playing tippy tappy drums on some pans and then digitised it, I know that lo-fi is a sound that was popular for a while but those drum sounds are just fucking rubbish.

Yeees, thank you. That's what always kind of puts me off fully liking Radiohead but nobody ever seems to get what I mean

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2020, 11:13:17 AM »
Quote
To me, I can understand being less drawn to female vocals because there is more of a chance you'll hear shrill bits and overkill vocal acrobatics and girlie baby-voice but there's so many female singers with a lower, darker register (the type of female vocals I prefer) if Ariana Grande shrillness isn't yer hing

I'm actually on the opposite side of the vocals divide, I wouldn't say I hate male vocals and there are male-fronted groups I like but I just tend to prefer female singers and songwriters, and just naturally gravitated towards them to the point where it probably makes up a good 95% of everything I listen to, whether it's '90s alternative ladies or modern idol groups or whatever. The same kind of rockist types who would have their percentages in almost exactly the opposite direction without even thinking about it seem to find this choice utterly fucking baffling, or assume you just fancy them or something. When I had pretensions of being an actual musician I used to dread it even coming up because you could basically picture the reaction before it happened. But that's local music scene wankers for you I suppose.

Clownbaby

  • Toe to tip, this is a Bart
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2020, 11:33:08 AM »
Another opinion I see a lot that rubs me up the wrong way is the accusation that gets thrown at any artist with a flair for visual showmanship (dressing up, wearing masks, wearing lots of makeup etc.)  ''THEY'RE HIDING BEHIND THE COSTUMES IT'S NOT GENUINE" no matter how engaging/heartfelt/well-crafted their songs, performance, art direction is. I know there has always been artists who do use a gimmick to cover up their mediocre music but I don't get why so many people have an aversion to visuals tying in with someone's music. I've seen so many people get at Dolly Parton for her appearance and saying her outfits are unnecessary, that she ''doesn't need to look like that''. That's just how she likes to look. It's part of her charm. Doesn't negate her music at all and I don't even see why it would because I like the way she looks.

I can understand someone simply not liking a performer's outfits (I often don't really like Lady Gaga's costumes all that much and think it looks like they're wearing her a lot of the time) but it's just this notion that singers or musicians who like to dress up and perform lack ''authenticity'' purely because they're up there onstage in much more than a t-shirt and trackies, that I find a bit ignorant and joyless.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 01:33:28 PM by Clownbaby »

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2020, 11:45:43 AM »
I can't stand chart pop of the '00s onwards, mostly because of the production. It's always really tinny, busy and therefore headache-inducing. When people whose music tastes i'm usually in line with also like Girls Aloud, Taylor Swift or whatever, I just don't get it. Do they like that shite ironically?! I don't even consider it music.

I also hate the sound of fingers clicking, in music or otherwise. I've never been able to click my fingers and the thought of doing it makes my entire body cringe, it sounds painful!

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2020, 11:51:37 AM »
Do they like that shite ironically?! I don't even consider it music.
I don't understand anyone who would say either of these things. Especially the latter. Something that's packed with melody and rhythm, it's as 'music' as music comes.
I have plenty of contemporary pop music. I wouldn't buy it if I liked it ironically. I can't think of anything more depressing (music-wise) than liking something ironically.

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2020, 11:55:24 AM »
I guess I said that to provoke a reaction. I fucking hate all that shite though. I heard Shake It Off by Taylor Swift a few months ago, which everyone seems to love, and I thought it was absolutely awful.

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2020, 11:59:51 AM »
Never got on with 'Shake it Off', to be fair, and I'm not a big Taylor Swift fan as far as modern pop goes. But I do tend to like big melodic pop regardless of genre, so there's lots I like.

the ouch cube

  • you've got moomins on yr breath
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2020, 12:32:55 PM »
To take things in the opposite direction a little, I grind my teeth when people claim that liking anything inaccessible is some sort of pretence or put-on, "you're only pretending to like that to look cool". How much spare time do you imagine I have that I could waste it pretending to like stuff that I don't? (Perhaps if the average human lifespan was about 350 years.) Who would I be trying to impress, if you've already claimed that no one genuinely likes it?

In my experience, this kind of inverted snobbery is far more common than traditional "pop music is for stupid little girls" snobbery.

Clownbaby

  • Toe to tip, this is a Bart
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2020, 12:40:18 PM »
To take things in the opposite direction a little, I grind my teeth when people claim that liking anything inaccessible is some sort of pretence or put-on, "you're only pretending to like that to look cool". How much spare time do you imagine I have that I could waste it pretending to like stuff that I don't? (Perhaps if the average human lifespan was about 350 years.) Who would I be trying to impress, if you've already claimed that no one genuinely likes it?

Agree. Either extreme is very ignorant. "people just like Death Grips ironically'' is a very popular hot take that I'm a bit sick of seeing. I don't think I like things ironically very often. You just like what you like. And if you genuinely like something, there isn't anything ''ironic'' about the fact that you like it, regardless of how ''accessible'' or ''inaccessible'' it might be
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 12:56:43 PM by Clownbaby »

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2020, 12:42:13 PM »
Does anyone genuinely listen to music "ironically"? I suppose that's really a question of why it is that you're into what you're into - it is just that the sequence of sounds gives you a pleasurable response? Or is it also a combination of stuff about the artist (and I guess performance, persona, appearance etc. could come into that), lyrics, how it fits into your wider worldview (e.g. admiring an artist for their political stance) or how's it's affected by your life experiences (e.g. loving a song because of the context in which you first heard it - an amazing film, a club where you met the love of your life, etc.)?

Urgh, that's a really clumsy way of trying to explain what I mean, but it is something I think about a lot with music. Why do we like what we like? Often it is just a case of hearing something and having an innate "YES!!" response, but I suspect a lot of the time it's a combination of the above.

Edit: anyway, my point was I can't get my head around the idea of genuinely choosing to listen to something in an "ironic way". Like surely if you're choosing to listen to it, there must be something in it for you - unless when people say that, they mean *pretending* to be into stuff you don't really like in order to give off a certain impression to others (although that wouldn't really be "ironic" anyway). I don't get it.

Clownbaby

  • Toe to tip, this is a Bart
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2020, 12:47:05 PM »
Does anyone genuinely listen to music "ironically"? I suppose that's really a question of why it is that you're into what you're into - it is just that the sequence of sounds gives you a pleasurable response? Or is it also a combination of stuff about the artist (and I guess performance, persona, appearance etc. could come into that), lyrics, how it fits into your wider worldview (e.g. admiring an artist for their political stance) or how's it's affected by your life experiences (e.g. loving a song because of the context in which you first heard it - an amazing film, a club where you met the love of your life, etc.)?

Urgh, that's a really clumsy way of trying to explain what I mean, but it is something I think about a lot with music. Why do we like what we like? Often it is just a case of hearing something and having an innate "YES!!" response, but I suspect a lot of the time it's a combination of the above.

I've always thought the only way you could really see your own enjoyment of someone's music as ''ironic'' is if you like the tone of it for some drastically opposite reason than the artist intended, like finding it funny or unsettling when it was earnestly performed by someone who in no way set out to make people laugh or creep them out.

Also I don't think you can ''ironically'' like music that is already knowingly humorous or odd or abrasive. If you like something that is taking the piss in some way itself, intentionally, you just like it. You're not creating your own smart-arsey way to view the song because the artist is already doing that themself

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2020, 12:59:17 PM »
I can't stand chart pop of the '00s onwards, mostly because of the production. It's always really tinny, busy and therefore headache-inducing. When people whose music tastes i'm usually in line with also like Girls Aloud, Taylor Swift or whatever, I just don't get it. Do they like that shite ironically?! I don't even consider it music.

Let's just name this, right now.

Grown men who are super into pop music.

I have no real issue with mainstream pop music or most people into it. But that is because I'm 37, male, and therefore not the target audience for it.


On a related note, people with an unhealthy interest in foreign pop music, in the belief that it makes them look super cultured.


Those people are worse than the "stans" and they name themselves after a fictitious Eminem fan who killed himself, his girlfriend and unborn kid because Marshall Mathers wouldn't reply to his fanmail.

Sebastian Cobb

  • bad opinion haver
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2020, 01:09:11 PM »
I'm not super into pop music but there's some rnb throwback pop-adjacent stuff that I really like at the moment that makes me think pop is better than it has been in a while. Sudan Archives, Jamilla Woods, Celeste, Lizzo and Erika De Casier... that sort of thing.

I don't take an active interest in pop and haven't listened to (daytime) radio 1 since I was a teenager. But I guess these must have had wider appeal to penetrate my ignorance (a lot probably came through me listening to things like Worldwidefm).

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #55 on: October 03, 2020, 01:22:39 PM »
Why do we like what we like? Often it is just a case of hearing something and having an innate "YES!!" response, but I suspect a lot of the time it's a combination of the above.
For me it's almost entirely the former. I like music because of the actual music. I get a deep emotional response from certain sounds. The social or political context doesn't really interest me (although finding out a musician is a cunt can taint their music by association, sadly).

But that is because I'm 37, male, and therefore not the target audience for it.


On a related note, people with an unhealthy interest in foreign pop music, in the belief that it makes them look super cultured.

I don't get this. Again, it's this idea that music should only be enjoyed by certain people in certain situations. If you like a piece of music, you like it. Why there should be any kind of gatekeeping based on gender, age, nationality, etc. is totally beyond me.
And we've certainly reached a point where pop music doesn't have a 'target audience' of, say, teenage girls or whatever. The oft-cited example of Carly Rae Jepsen is a good one, someone who's had a couple of hit singles but mostly struggles to set the charts alight but does better on album sales and critical acclaim; who has complete creative control over her albums and makes them to sound how she (now in her mid '30s) would like to hear; who on her social media often talks about the likes of Leonard Cohen and Bob Dylan as her songwriting inspirations.

Fundamentally, if you like the 'pop song' as a musical form - be it The Beatles, Madonna, Blur, The Smiths, ABBA - then there are numerous contemporary pop singers whose material could very easily appeal, regardless of the commercial potential of the music. I don't see why this should only be acceptable if the fans are of certain gender, age or nationality.

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #56 on: October 03, 2020, 01:52:29 PM »
I don't get this. Again, it's this idea that music should only be enjoyed by certain people in certain situations. If you like a piece of music, you like it. Why there should be any kind of gatekeeping based on gender, age, nationality, etc. is totally beyond me.

Yes, completely agree. When people ask what kind of music I'm into, there's been a few times where they've responded with "Oh, bit of a rock chick are you?", as if it's still some sort of subversive anomaly, which I find excruciatingly cringey and just stupid (and that ties into a whole other conversation about misogyny in music, but I'll leave that out of it for now).

I can see how it can come across that some people deliberately flaunt their interest in a particular artist/style of music in order to appear quirky/cultured/interesting etc. but it's quite sad if that's the default position, ideally I'd like to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that we all just like what we like.

The Mollusk

  • We whipped 'em, didn't we?
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #57 on: October 03, 2020, 04:52:37 PM »
Let's just name this, right now.

Grown men who are super into pop music.

I have no real issue with mainstream pop music or most people into it. But that is because I'm 37, male, and therefore not the target audience for it.


On a related note, people with an unhealthy interest in foreign pop music, in the belief that it makes them look super cultured.


Those people are worse than the "stans" and they name themselves after a fictitious Eminem fan who killed himself, his girlfriend and unborn kid because Marshall Mathers wouldn't reply to his fanmail.

No offence but it sounds like you have quite a big chip on your shoulder there. Could you show your working out in the margins, say, for why you think pop music has a target audience, or a specific example of how you’ve concluded some people are only interested in foreign pop music as a way of obtaining a cultural badge of honour? I’ve never encountered one myself.

Sorta links into the “liking music ironically” thing as well, which I believe also largely stems from the listener having a chip on their shoulder and just being too embarrassed to admit the music stimulates a pleasure response in their brain and they are in fact - oh, the shame! - actually enjoying it.

I don’t think “liking something ironically” is fundamentally possible, even in the above mentioned context of the thing being “so bad it’s good”. It takes real effort to make something that’s truly very bad and that in itself sparks enjoyment which is not ironic. I’ll cite The Room as an easy and obvious example to consider, since I don’t pretend to enjoy that film, I genuinely enjoy it. Anyone who sits through a 4/10 schlocky horror film and jokingly says they enjoyed it for the irony banter is lying. The only “ironic enjoyment” comes from sharing the anecdote with other people after the fact.

Sebastian Cobb

  • bad opinion haver
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #58 on: October 03, 2020, 05:00:15 PM »
That cypress hill would be incapable of killing a man.

The Mollusk

  • We whipped 'em, didn't we?
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #59 on: October 03, 2020, 05:06:30 PM »
Nice

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