Author Topic: Musical opinions that you just don't understand  (Read 5243 times)

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #60 on: October 03, 2020, 05:07:44 PM »
NO LOGIC BEHIND IT

That doesn't surprise me. There is no logic behind it. In all things, we like what we like. Then, when asked why, we invent reasons (and as much deceive ourselves as we do the person asking).

On the subject of this thread, the more I read/chat about music, the more I'm coming to the conclusion that all opinions about music (and other art forms) are weird. Everyone hears everything massively differently.

Firstly, we listen to music for different things, and then it's filtered through our own particular combinations of reference points. This is most exposed in the "this sounds like X", "no it fucking doesn't, even remotely" argument. Or you talk to someone who shares the same favourite artist, but all the songs you think are the best ones they actually dislike and they like all the ones you're not so keen on. But it's usually more subtle than this, but ultimately just as disconcerting.

Or maybe it's just me.

Lemming

  • Better a "lapdog to a slip of a girl" than a.. GIT
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #61 on: October 03, 2020, 05:16:19 PM »
re: the ongoing "chart pop" discussion

The majority of recent chart pop isn't for me, but the past twenty years have had some phenomenally catchy stuff here and there. That's what pop music is all about, surely - I'm with what purlieu said on the first page about not caring too much about genre, as long as the songwriting is there. Big fan of cross-genre covers for this reason. The main things that make me like a song are melodies and hooks, particularly vocal hooks, which can work with any sort of production or instrumentation.

00s pop also gave us Everytime We Touch by Cascada, and if you don't appreciate the ridiculous dance break in that, then what do you appreciate? It also gave us Crazy in Love, which has one of the most simple but effective vocal hooks ever written with that "uh oh uh oh uh oh no no" bit. Matches the simple catchiness of a Soviet marching anthem.

Obviously tastes will always vary but arbitrarily restricting yourself from good music because you feel like it's at odds with your identity, demographic, style or whatever just means you end up missing out on a ton of great shit.

Clownbaby

  • Toe to tip, this is a Bart
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #62 on: October 03, 2020, 05:18:14 PM »
Or you talk to someone who shares the same favourite artist, but all the songs you think are the best ones they actually dislike and they like all the ones you're not so keen on. But it's usually more subtle than this, but ultimately just as disconcerting.

This is a big thing that changed my opinion on how much importance I put into someone liking the same band as me. I used to think it was a great thing and a perfect way to start a conversation with a new person, but it often isn't. I know Facebook groups are often crap anyway but I used to be in a couple of Queens Of The Stone Age groups and was surprised at how many people felt the exact opposite about them to what I did. I don't like identifying as part of a group of fans of anything I like, for this reason.

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #63 on: October 03, 2020, 08:54:53 PM »
I saw someone on facebook the other day dismissing Van Der Graaf Generator as "some bloke shouting over jazz funk". Jazz funk!

I'd really like to know what he thinks VDGG have musically in common with Herbie Hancock and Weather Report.

Sebastian Cobb

  • bad opinion haver
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #64 on: October 03, 2020, 08:57:02 PM »
I saw someone on facebook the other day dismissing Van Der Graaf Generator as "some bloke shouting over jazz funk". Jazz funk!

I'd really like to know what he thinks VDGG have musically in common with Herbie Hancock and Weather Report.

Took this at face value.


Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #65 on: October 04, 2020, 06:47:58 AM »
I saw someone on facebook the other day dismissing Van Der Graaf Generator as "some bloke shouting over jazz funk". Jazz funk!

I'd really like to know what he thinks VDGG have musically in common with Herbie Hancock and Weather Report.

It comes back to what knowledge the person has about music, and the vocabulary they have to express what they mean. Or the order they hear things in. Like people accusing Kraftwerk of ripping off Coldplay.

icehaven

  • Marmalade's reared it's head in every course
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #66 on: October 04, 2020, 10:20:22 AM »
It comes back to what knowledge the person has about music, and the vocabulary they have to express what they mean. Or the order they hear things in. Like people accusing Kraftwerk of ripping off Coldplay.

This is true. Mr. Haven, bless his socks, has many areas of expertise but music isn't one of them. He described a Happy Mondays song I was listening to as 'drum and bass' because the most prominent instruments he could hear were the drums and the bass.

the science eel

  • married to Su Pollard for 8 years
    • PRELUDIN - where goons don't go
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #67 on: October 04, 2020, 10:41:39 AM »
also my own mother claims to hate jazz because there's "far too many notes".

Perfectly reasonable.

NoSleep

  • This is your Uncle Jim speaking
    • Space Is The Place

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #69 on: October 04, 2020, 11:52:19 AM »
My sister can't fathom how I can enjoy heavy metal, but I don't think she'd ever suggest I was listening to it ironically. She just thinks I'd taken leave of my senses.

The Mollusk

  • We whipped 'em, didn't we?
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #70 on: October 04, 2020, 12:38:54 PM »
Just taking a cheeky ironic leave of my senses like an absolute mad lad 🤪🤪🤪 *air guitar shredding*

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #71 on: October 04, 2020, 01:19:50 PM »
People who say they don't like The Beatles are *always* insufferable.

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #72 on: October 04, 2020, 01:22:45 PM »
Any music described as 'alt. country' or 'Americana' I usually dismiss instantly.

JesusAndYourBush

  • Earnest silky coconut shell
    • http://www.google.com
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #73 on: October 04, 2020, 01:31:11 PM »
On the whole I don't really get genre-oriented listening...

Yeah I don't get it either.  I've known people who like metal, and they listen exclusively to metal, and I've known people who like goth and they listen exclusively to goth, and with their chosen genres they'd listen to the whole gamut of what the genre had to offer, from the very good to the appallingly bad.  I don't understand their lack of quality control.

Sebastian Cobb

  • bad opinion haver
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #74 on: October 04, 2020, 02:24:53 PM »
Yeah I don't get it either.  I've known people who like metal, and they listen exclusively to metal, and I've known people who like goth and they listen exclusively to goth, and with their chosen genres they'd listen to the whole gamut of what the genre had to offer, from the very good to the appallingly bad.  I don't understand their lack of quality control.

I find it even more odd when it's electronic stuff. I knew some people who listened almost exclusively to drum and bass or hip hop. But these genres openly and proudly borrow and sample from layer upon layer of genres going back over the 20th century, how can you not be curious about the roots?

Like if you listen to a certain style of hip hop you're practically listening to chopped up P-Funk anyway, how could you not like funk in that case?

The Mollusk

  • We whipped 'em, didn't we?
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #75 on: October 04, 2020, 02:30:55 PM »
I've known people who like metal, and they listen exclusively to metal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otuVawEShi4

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #76 on: October 04, 2020, 03:09:01 PM »
Yeah I don't get it either.  I've known people who like metal, and they listen exclusively to metal, and I've known people who like goth and they listen exclusively to goth, and with their chosen genres they'd listen to the whole gamut of what the genre had to offer, from the very good to the appallingly bad.  I don't understand their lack of quality control.
That's basically what my sister thinks I must be like. She says, "you used to like good music", as if metal precludes listening to anything else. I'm actually very picky, preferring the sludge/doom end of the spectrum.

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #77 on: October 04, 2020, 03:21:33 PM »
For me it's almost entirely the former. I like music because of the actual music. I get a deep emotional response from certain sounds. The social or political context doesn't really interest me (although finding out a musician is a cunt can taint their music by association, sadly).

Just re-reading this thread - I find this point really fascinating because although I completely agree that you can't help what you like, and you can't control which combinations of sounds trigger that response in you (and for this reason I also find the idea of having "good" or "bad" taste in music pretty much redundant), I also think that often a significant part of the appeal of an artist or act (and therefore the reward you get as a listener or fan) comes from the sum of various elements of the whole package, as it were.

To use an obvious example, take David Bowie - I think for many of his fans and admirers, of course the basis of their love for him is the songs themselves, but it's elevated by the breadth of all the other parts which made up his act (appearance, lyrics, range of musical styles and influences, cultural context, etc.).

I suppose you could argue that's not really about the music itself specifically, and obviously it's also perfectly possible to be "into" a band or artist without knowing anything else about them other than what their music sounds like - but when you get into stuff like (for example) lyrics being part of that appeal, I guess it could be argued that there are things which are integral to music without actually being music, if that makes sense. Dunno.

Of course you can definitely also love a song/artist etc. musically but think the lyrics are shit. Sure there's been a thread about that.

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #78 on: October 04, 2020, 08:38:04 PM »
Just re-reading this thread - I find this point really fascinating because although I completely agree that you can't help what you like, and you can't control which combinations of sounds trigger that response in you (and for this reason I also find the idea of having "good" or "bad" taste in music pretty much redundant), I also think that often a significant part of the appeal of an artist or act (and therefore the reward you get as a listener or fan) comes from the sum of various elements of the whole package, as it were.
I think that's true for a lot of people - my partner and I have had this discussion numerous times, she generally has to know about the artist, the cultural context of their music, who inspired them, etc. to really get to love their music. For me it's never remotely come into it, though. I like music purely for the music and nothing else. Lyrics, for me, tend to be picture-painting, with imagery that complements - or contrasts with - the feeling the music conjures, but I have little interest in exploring them further. I don't really consider art to be an intellectual pursuit, more a visceral one, something that triggers my emotions through sound and the imagery that suggests. I can't imagine anything worse than sitting down to work out the intricacies of what particular lyrics mean and what point is being made by them, nor do I have any interest in how the artist involved had some sort of cultural impact, or what the music really meant to them. For me it's 'pure' music. A significant number of my favourite artists tend to play down any type of 'meaning' in their music, which is almost certainly not a coincidence.

Dr Syntax Head

  • Empty alcohol
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #79 on: October 04, 2020, 10:03:54 PM »
I had a partner once have a go at me because she said I was only listening to the likes of LCD Soundsystem at the time because I wanted to be cool

She wasn't wrong but still

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #80 on: October 05, 2020, 12:06:13 AM »
Any music described as 'alt. country' or 'Americana' I usually dismiss instantly.

Just listen to "country" instead.

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #81 on: October 05, 2020, 11:03:57 AM »
The absolute obsession of some Prog fans whether certain acts are Prog or not.

I'm sure fans of other genres are similar, but the racial purity tests some of those guys is astounding.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 11:26:07 AM by OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead »

pigamus

  • Member
  • **
  • Sex, death, mayonnaise.
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #82 on: October 05, 2020, 11:30:54 AM »
Any music described as 'alt. country' or 'Americana' I usually dismiss instantly.
Just listen to "country" instead.

It always sounds to me like country music made by people who are embarrassed by country music. It always gets praised to the skies by serious music magazines and whatnot but it leaves me baffled.

NoSleep

  • This is your Uncle Jim speaking
    • Space Is The Place
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #83 on: October 05, 2020, 12:31:56 PM »
The absolute obsession of some Prog fans whether certain acts are Prog or not.

As if something actually progressive would stand still long enough to be categorised.

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #84 on: October 05, 2020, 12:45:18 PM »
Jazzy Jeff and The Fresh Prince consider re-write

Sin Agog

  • Dogs fucked the pope; no fault of mine
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #85 on: October 05, 2020, 12:51:58 PM »
Main one that pops to mind is people dolling out the word 'depressing' to anything that gives them a sense of awe.  The same applies to fillums.  I guess it's a matter of perspective :- some people look at the vast fabric of space and turn the ensuing awe into awful, while others are awe-inspired.  Thing is, I'll hear it applied to things which, while not perhaps high BPM radio friendly unit shifters, are otherwise quite positive and upbeat.

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #86 on: October 05, 2020, 01:18:16 PM »
The absolute obsession of some Prog fans whether certain acts are Prog or not.

I'm sure fans of other genres are similar, but the racial purity tests some of those guys is astounding.
Ah, you've never looked at Discogs entries for dance music 12"s then, people disagreeing with how they've been categorised. Threads full of people saying things like "How is this listed as Progressive House? It's definitely Hard Trance with a hint of Tech House but not even remotely Progressive House!"

Jockice

  • I really have red hair. And a **********.
Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #87 on: October 05, 2020, 03:02:40 PM »
That doesn't surprise me. There is no logic behind it. In all things, we like what we like. Then, when asked why, we invent reasons (and as much deceive ourselves as we do the person asking).

On the subject of this thread, the more I read/chat about music, the more I'm coming to the conclusion that all opinions about music (and other art forms) are weird. Everyone hears everything massively differently.

Firstly, we listen to music for different things, and then it's filtered through our own particular combinations of reference points. This is most exposed in the "this sounds like X", "no it fucking doesn't, even remotely" argument. Or you talk to someone who shares the same favourite artist, but all the songs you think are the best ones they actually dislike and they like all the ones you're not so keen on. But it's usually more subtle than this, but ultimately just as disconcerting.

Or maybe it's just me.

There really isn't any logic behind it. Someone posted a list of Noel Gallagher's favourite albums of all time on Twitter a few days ago and there were comments about the lack of 'black' music on it. So what? It doesn't make him a racist. I had to do a list of my ten favourite albums last year (for a speech therapy thing) and the only black artists on it were a couple of The Specials. I'd never even thought about it that way and before I certainly wasn't going to shove James Brown in there replacing The Pastels or something just to prove I'm not prejudiced. The ten I chose all affected me at various points in my life and just because The Smiths are in there doesn't mean that I share any of Morrissey's weird latterday views.

I mean Noel is a dick in many ways but I don't think you can accuse him of anything just because he likes or doesn't like certain types of music. Incidentally myself and a group of mates had a virtual jukebox thing at the weekend at which we chose five of our favourite tracks to play to each other (they were all randomised - apart from the first and last tracks - so it was sheer chance what came up when). One of the guys chose five dance/disco hits from the 70s and 80s, but if you'd asked me beforehand what sort of music he was into I wouldn't have had a clue. But it's obviously what he likes so fair play to him. Nobody complained. It was great fun. Possibly the best night out or in I've had this year.

My choices were tracks by The Undertones, Orange Juice, Fun Boy Three, Wizzard...and 23 Skidoo. Which everyone else except one person absolutely hated. But do I care? No I jolly well don't.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 04:49:47 PM by Jockice »

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #88 on: October 05, 2020, 04:45:18 PM »
Ah, you've never looked at Discogs entries for dance music 12"s then, people disagreeing with how they've been categorised. Threads full of people saying things like "How is this listed as Progressive House? It's definitely Hard Trance with a hint of Tech House but not even remotely Progressive House!"

Good point, I'd forgotten the slightly over subscribed 'Electronic' styles.



I'm sure there's people out there arguing if this 12" is nerdcore or not.

Re: Musical opinions that you just don't understand
« Reply #89 on: October 05, 2020, 04:54:09 PM »
Aren't footwork and juke the same thing? Honestly.

Tags: