Going alt-right

[Bazooka]

It'll be Alt-right on the Night

[TheBrownBottle]

I assume the overwhelming majority of violent crime is perpetrated by men, so what would men only busses do?

Get drunk to the point of incoherence, sing songs, and occasionally get involved in fist fights if my experience of football away games / stag dos etc are anything to go by.

[JaDanketies]

Someone will have to explain the women only buses. Unless the university thinks the women will be raped on the bus, why not let men use it too?

Kinda derailed the thread with that. It was more what I thought was the best example of men getting left in the dark due to progressivism.

I assume the buses were created as such:

• The student union creates a women's officer role, because it is a progressive organisation interested in advancing feminist issues
• At one point, the women's officers decide to agitate for a women's only bus, because - not to be dismissive of a terrible crime - rape by strangers is a feminist moral panic, and getting female students home safely is a tangible example of the efficacy of the student union women's officer role
• The university / bus company say 'yeah, whatever.' Arguing against it hardly sounds worth the effort - it could be spun as arguing against women's safety.

I can't see anything about the women's bus at my specific university through a quick Google, but here's a link about one in Sheffield.

Any female student knows the injustice of having to carefully plan their route home when their male housemates can freely walk home alone at night

I still find that argument galling to be honest. (obviously). Oh us lucky men! Wandering around at night without a care in the world! When women have to worry about some man attacking them on the street, despite 93% of rapes involving an acquaintance and young men getting their head kicked in by strangers like it's a game...

Here's a male student in Sheffield who studied 'peace and development', got assaulted outside a nightclub and died. 79 words in that article.

But I can't blame women for being afraid and men for being cocky, because we're socialised like this. I guess I am just highlighting the ostracising effects of this kind of myopic feminist women-are-fragile-and-men-are-invulnerable. I mean, they are students. It's understandable they would be more worried about the newsworthy crimes rather than the boring man-hospitalised-after-head-hits-pavement crimes.

[thenoise]

It's because women are frequently too frightened to go out at night, and men very seldom are. Regardless of whether or not they are right to feel that way or not.

[TheBrownBottle]

Kinda derailed the thread with that. It was more what I thought was the best example of men getting left in the dark due to progressivism.

I assume the buses were created as such:

• The student union creates a women's officer role, because it is a progressive organisation interested in advancing feminist issues
• At one point, the women's officers decide to agitate for a women's only bus, because - not to be dismissive of a terrible crime - rape by strangers is a feminist moral panic, and getting female students home safely is a tangible example of the efficacy of the student union women's officer role
• The university / bus company say 'yeah, whatever.' Arguing against it hardly sounds worth the effort - it could be spun as arguing against women's safety.

I can't see anything about the women's bus at my specific university through a quick Google, but here's a link about one in Sheffield.

I still find that argument galling to be honest. (obviously). Oh us lucky men! Wandering around at night without a care in the world! When women have to worry about some man attacking them on the street, despite 93% of rapes involving an acquaintance and young men getting their head kicked in by strangers like it's a game...

Here's a male student in Sheffield who studied 'peace and development', got assaulted outside a nightclub and died. 79 words in that article.

But I can't blame women for being afraid and men for being cocky, because we're socialised like this. I guess I am just highlighting the ostracising effects of this kind of myopic feminist women-are-fragile-and-men-are-invulnerable. I mean, they are students. It's understandable they would be more worried about the newsworthy crimes rather than the boring man-hospitalised-after-head-hits-pavement crimes.

Yes, all those violent street rapes against men.  Don't know what the women are moaning about.

Being angry about women-only night buses is as crackers as anything shat out by the alt-right.  It's not about men being 'cocky'.  It's about the threat of violent sexual assault. That poor soul who got assaulted outside a nightclub wouldn't have been protected by a night bus.

In my younger days, I walked home drunk from the city centre lots of times with zero fear.  Would I have done that if I was female?  Would I bollocks.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I walked home drunk from the city centre lots of times with zero fear.  Would I have done that if I was female?  Would I bollocks.

Apparently many still do, if Leeds is anything to go by...

[brat-sampson]

Don't have much personal insight into this, but here's a video from someone who went right in deep and managed to recover, recounting their experiences. My Descent into the Alt-Right Pipeline


and here's another going more into detail about the type of psychological tricks and routes they'll take to get fairly regular people who are just down on their luck and radicalise them over time. The Alt-Right Playbook: How to Radicalize a Normie

Both well worth a watch if you're interested or also if you're concerned about anyone you know...

[JaDanketies]

Yes, all those violent street rapes against men.  Don't know what the women are moaning about.

Being angry about women-only night buses is as crackers as anything shat out by the alt-right.  It's not about men being 'cocky'.  It's about the threat of violent sexual assault. That poor soul who got assaulted outside a nightclub wouldn't have been protected by a night bus.

In my younger days, I walked home drunk from the city centre lots of times with zero fear.  Would I have done that if I was female?  Would I bollocks.

The threat women face of violent sexual assault by a stranger in an alleyway is much less than the threat men face of being hospitalised by a gang of men. Society is disproportionately concerned about one crime and unconcerned about the other.

I can tell you that I was once blackout drunk at uni and some group of people started a fight with me and I fled on to the student bus. And my assailants were hammering on the windows.  I only know this because others told me - I was too blitzed.

I'm pretty sure that I was actually beaten up and robbed in Manchester once - I woke up sore without my weed and my mobile phone, and when I called the phone some scallie answered it telling me how blazed he was.

Many women walk home on a daily basis.

I remember talking at uni and my friends said they walked miles home through Newcastle regularly. I told them that doing so in Manchester would be insane. If a man walked from the city centre to the suburbs 20 times then you would get robbed at least once.

[ProvanFan]

Do you have a copy of the letter you sent to the uni? And can you share a recording of you reading it?

[JaDanketies]

...

[peanutbutter]

Always though a certain poster on here who used to post rage filled rants about his mam not washing his dinner fit a certain type of alt-right archetype to a tee. It did seem like he had a bit of a hard time of it, and there was probably a long patch of time where he could've been pulled away from it with some friends and a bit of a support network but he also frequently came across as such an temperamental empathy void that was unwilling to take any action of his own that I can't imagine anyone bothering.

Would've been perfect for 12 Rules for Life, although I wonder how many of those people actually stuck to the bits that did actually improve their lives.

[Famous Mortimer]

Someone will have to explain the women only buses. Unless the university thinks the women will be raped on the bus, why not let men use it too?

I'm guessing you're trolling, but on the off chance you're not, man sits down next to woman on bus, hassles her all way home, gets off at her stop, finds nearest dark area, etc.

[evilcommiedictator]

If Mark from Peep Show grew up now, would he just enjoy cosplaying as a Nazi in the current environment, with the general attitude of encouraged hate towards the non-British non-White "other"?

[QDRPHNC]

Always though a certain poster on here who used to post rage filled rants about his mam not washing his dinner fit a certain type of alt-right archetype to a tee. It did seem like he had a bit of a hard time of it, and there was probably a long patch of time where he could've been pulled away from it with some friends and a bit of a support network but he also frequently came across as such an temperamental empathy void that was unwilling to take any action of his own that I can't imagine anyone bothering.

Would've been perfect for 12 Rules for Life, although I wonder how many of those people actually stuck to the bits that did actually improve their lives.

He did actually go a bit incelly alt-righty, didn't he?

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

Yes, all those violent street rapes against men.  Don't know what the women are moaning about.

Okay, we already had this discussion back on the last page but I'll repeat myself. Women are just as likely to be attacked by someone they know as they are by a total stranger (and JaDanketies, your percentage keeps creeping up and up, try to watch that. An "acquaintance" can be someone whose name you know and you've spoken to once). Women-only buses still serve a purpose, even if it's only to give the women riding them some peace of mind.

Meanwhile men are physically assaulted by strangers in about 1/3 of cases (taking JaDanketies figure earlier; I've also seen that stat) and overwhelmingly by other men. Now a male-only bus (or even several University College Campus buses that anyone can use) might cut down on the number of students being assaulted by strangers, it might not. It's still a good idea. But like the women-only buses, it would only go so far. It does nothing to prevent fights between friends and acquaintances or fights at house parties. A change in societal attitude is needed in both cases.

Both things can be true. Don't be that guy.

[jobotic]

I'm guessing you're trolling, but on the off chance you're not, man sits down next to woman on bus, hassles her all way home, gets off at her stop, finds nearest dark area, etc.

This had already been explained before he posted, as if it needed to be.

[peanutbutter]

He did actually go a bit incelly alt-righty, didn't he?

Full on brain rot "drinking lib tears 😂" type

[Famous Mortimer]

This had already been explained before he posted, as if it needed to be.

I thought I was responding to the most recent post. But thank you!

[JaDanketies]

Of 'social media' that 'rewards' hot takes and and controversial purposely contrarian viewpoints.

Looking back on the thread, I think this is relevant too. If a lot of your 'intellectual' 'debate' is on social media, then contrarianism is great. You get a lot more attention by being a contrarian. My political philosophy on my Facebook page when I was in my early 20s was literally 'contrarianism'.

[Crisps?]

I'm guessing you're trolling, but on the off chance you're not, man sits down next to woman on bus, hassles her all way home, gets off at her stop, finds nearest dark area, etc.

So this would be a student safety bus where nobody does anything when a student is being harassed, and which drops women off in unsafe areas a potential rapist could be waiting anyway. Thanks for not leaving any doubt when you are trolling.

This had already been explained before he posted, as if it needed to be.

It needed to be explained because it makes no sense. If you have a friend or acquaintance who can turn on you like, the problem isn't that they sat next to you on a bus.

[Buelligan]

Fucking hell.

[TheBrownBottle]

The threat women face of violent sexual assault by a stranger in an alleyway is much less than the threat men face of being hospitalised by a gang of men. Society is disproportionately concerned about one crime and unconcerned about the other.

I can tell you that I was once blackout drunk at uni and some group of people started a fight with me and I fled on to the student bus. And my assailants were hammering on the windows.  I only know this because others told me - I was too blitzed.

I'm pretty sure that I was actually beaten up and robbed in Manchester once - I woke up sore without my weed and my mobile phone, and when I called the phone some scallie answered it telling me how blazed he was.

Many women walk home on a daily basis.

I remember talking at uni and my friends said they walked miles home through Newcastle regularly. I told them that doing so in Manchester would be insane. If a man walked from the city centre to the suburbs 20 times then you would get robbed at least once.

I regret diminishing the threat to men of assault by a random stranger.  I accept your points - but I don't think that women-only night buses is really a thing which needs a microscope pointed at it. 

[TheBrownBottle]

Okay, we already had this discussion back on the last page but I'll repeat myself. Women are just as likely to be attacked by someone they know as they are by a total stranger (and JaDanketies, your percentage keeps creeping up and up, try to watch that. An "acquaintance" can be someone whose name you know and you've spoken to once). Women-only buses still serve a purpose, even if it's only to give the women riding them some peace of mind.

Meanwhile men are physically assaulted by strangers in about 1/3 of cases (taking JaDanketies figure earlier; I've also seen that stat) and overwhelmingly by other men. Now a male-only bus (or even several University College Campus buses that anyone can use) might cut down on the number of students being assaulted by strangers, it might not. It's still a good idea. But like the women-only buses, it would only go so far. It does nothing to prevent fights between friends and acquaintances or fights at house parties. A change in societal attitude is needed in both cases.

Both things can be true. Don't be that guy.

Yes, that's fair enough. I don't think that women-only night buses are a subject that needs to be opened for discussion beyond a look at the depressing reasons that they may need to exist, but  I shouldn't have played down the threats that men can face - apologies. I've been assaulted in the past on the last bus home - before late licensing, the 11pm bus could be a dicey affair. 

[Bronzy]

women-only night buses is really a thing which needs a microscope pointed at it.

Dirty old bollocks etc

[Zetetic]

I'm conclusion, by volume of posts, the answer to "why do people turn alt-right?" is "minibuses".

With one poster advocating for a heavy genetic component, presumably moderating people's reaction to minibuses.

[AllisonSays]

Am I being thick, or isn't the point of women-only nightbuses only partially about sexual assault, and more about the avoidance of sexual harrassment and unwanted come-ons from drunk men?

[greenman]

I suspect a lot of the reason for the growth of the alt right has been that it plays into the culture of the political/media mainstream. The idea of a highly individualist world view in which self awareness/questioning is not encouraged, a white male version of various other sub groups even if unlike many of those groups its actively bigoted and does very little to actually improve the lot of its members.

The real difference with CaB for me is that this place is full of people who seem very much self aware and willing to self question, I don't just think relative to more right wing parts of the net but relative to a lot of forums full of centralist dad types who operate in pretty similar mindsets.

[mr. logic]

Also, getting hit is very unpleasant. But it's not going to leave the same mental scars as rape is it?

[Zetetic]

I suspect that probably depends. (Noting that sexual violence will involve ... violence.)

Not if you're hit to death, for example.

Probably not a fruitful avenue, trying calculate the general badness of either one.

[mr. logic]

I suspect that probably depends. (Noting that sexual violence will involve ... violence.)

Not if you're hit to death, for example.

Probably not a fruitful avenue, trying calculate the general badness of either one.

I knew somebody would say something like this. You're right, probably best to just leave it.