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March 29, 2024, 10:40:39 AM

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Star Trek - Voyager

Started by dr_christian_troy, October 05, 2020, 01:52:46 PM

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Deanjam

Quote from: purlieu on April 10, 2021, 07:35:40 PM
State of Flux. Good stuff. A genuine whodunnit that dangles the answer in front of you without you really knowing. Wasn't expecting any of the reveals. Still not really taken by the Kazons, they just seem like generic aliens with no identifying characteristics.

That's probably why they added
Spoiler alert
Seksa
[close]
to them. Makes them more interesting.

oy vey

The Kazon are not the best. Seska is more interesting so we'll see.

Johnny Textface

Are there any good books about the production of the various shows being made in the 90's?  Must be the premium Trek decade.

Deanjam

I remember this being good, but it's pricey these days.


purlieu

Heroes and Demons. Started out in "oh no, a holodeck story" territory, but very swiftly turned into a really lovely Doctor episode. He's already by far my favourite character, and I enjoyed that a lot as a result.
Also, chalking another one up for the "the Voyager crew mess up and start the problem themselves" pile.

oy vey

I really enjoyed this when it first aired (actually I was buying them on vhs) because I was waiting for a Doc episode and it was a lot of fun. Looking back it's not quite as good due to the usual holodeck malfunction and misunderstood alien trope, but other than that I still enjoyed it. Doc's heroic story about coming up with an antibody for whatever the fuck he was on about, while chewing on that giant chicken drumstick, is still a delight.

Deanjam

I like H&D a lot. Any Doctor episode is good for me, add the vikings and the lovely Freya and it was fun. One of the vikings was played by  Christopher Neame, one of the earliest Trek/Doctor Who crossings, and also was Johnny Alucard in Dracula AD 72.

Mr_Simnock

I've had this dream I think


Deanjam

It's funny how they put Jeri Ryan in that ridiculous cheesecake space-babe outfit yet she never looked sexier than in plain 40s clothes. I also think she's far hotter in regular starfleet uniform.


Wonderful Butternut

It occurred to me lately that it's a bit troubling that they never gave Seven her own quarters, or even shared quarters that non-comms have. I know she needs the Borg regen chamber instead of a bed, but surely she's entitled to some degree of personal space rather than a cargo bay that everyone can wander into at any time.

purlieu

Cathexis. Fine, a decent enough mystery, but somewhat run of the mill by Star Trek standards.

oy vey

A ghost Chakotay episode. With the likes of this, and other concepts like non-corporeal life forms, telepathy and episodes that treat consciousness as its own manifestation, I wonder how atheists get on with it all. You godless types okay with this?

purlieu

I think the Turn of the Screw holodeck opening was a bit too on the nose for my liking, too.

oy vey

That holonovel seems out if place with the rest of the episode.

Wonderful Butternut

Quote from: oy vey on April 12, 2021, 07:25:46 PM
That holonovel seems out if place with the rest of the episode.

The holonovel was supposed Janeway's hobby and was going to be a recurring feature, but they ended up only using it one or two more times.

Lemming

I really love the concept of Cathexis. I've not rewatched it yet so I can't comment much on the execution, but the idea of Chakotay and an alien playing 4D chess with the unwitting crew as pawns is awesome.

Especially when you factor in that the crew:
a) don't know there's more than one "ghost", and that one is Chakotay
b) don't know that Chakotay is trying to save them while the other is trying to destroy them
c) even if they did know that, they have no way to know which "ghost" is possessing anyone at any given time

There's a really really good episode in there, but I do remember this one falling a bit flat with spirit maps or whatever the fuck, and endless close-ups of Robert Beltran pretending to be unconscious.

Quote from: oy vey on April 12, 2021, 06:42:12 PM
A ghost Chakotay episode. With the likes of this, and other concepts like non-corporeal life forms, telepathy and episodes that treat consciousness as its own manifestation, I wonder how atheists get on with it all. You godless types okay with this?

It makes about as much sense as anything else in Star Trek, I suppose! It's all scientific within the insane laws of science the Star Trek universe operates on, which allow for stuff like Apollo in Who Mourns For Adonais. I think they give some "that'll do" explanation about his neural energy getting separated from his body by the nebula.

oy vey

Yeah true. It kind of spoils it when you think about it too much. The ambiguity saves it all. I can still imagine it annoying stark materialists who laugh at "energetic this" or "telepathic that". Mind melds work because brains can sync up but is penetration or at the very least cunnilingus possible in Sub Rosa. These are questions for philosophers I guess.

JamesTC

Quote from: Deanjam on April 12, 2021, 04:41:26 PM
It's funny how they put Jeri Ryan in that ridiculous cheesecake space-babe outfit yet she never looked sexier than in plain 40s clothes. I also think she's far hotter in regular starfleet uniform.[/img]

Likewise Troi and T'Pol. Just let them wear proper uniforms for Christ's sake.

oy vey

I blame Bermaga for Seven and Tpol's costumes but I assume cheerleader Troi was Gene. They were fucking clueless in the 80's / 90's with that shit. It dates the series much more than any effects shots.

JamesTC

I've been listening to an audiobook I downloaded years ago called Inside Star Trek. The story of Gene being way too interested in the costume sessions with the young women and having to be told when he is going too far with his hands on adjustments.

Deanjam

Semi related to this. I recommend this video by Renegade Cut about the problems with Rick Berman, particularly in his attitudes to women and gay people. I found it very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeSz2gW8IsE

Mr Trumpet

Quote from: oy vey on April 12, 2021, 08:38:08 PM
Yeah true. It kind of spoils it when you think about it too much. The ambiguity saves it all. I can still imagine it annoying stark materialists who laugh at "energetic this" or "telepathic that". Mind melds work because brains can sync up but is penetration or at the very least cunnilingus possible in Sub Rosa. These are questions for philosophers I guess.

The soul definitely exists in the Star Trek universe, as the Vulcan katra or as a "bioelectric field" in numerous stories. Presumably it travels through the transporter beam as well, which is why nobody has a problem with it apparently killing people and remaking them.

oy vey

^
Agreed.

That Berman video was interesting. And I forgot how comically bad that Enterprise decon scene is.

JamesTC

Souls can exist in a fictional setting. Doesn't bother me.

I adore Quantum Leap. Don't give a toss that God is
Spoiler alert
a bartender.
[close]
I love The Brittas Empire and God/Heaven is definitely real in that. The Simpsons too. Probably loads of my favourite shows that I can't think of right now. What Dreams May Come is one of my favourite films too.


petril

Quote from: oy vey on April 12, 2021, 06:42:12 PM
A ghost Chakotay episode. With the likes of this, and other concepts like non-corporeal life forms, telepathy and episodes that treat consciousness as its own manifestation, I wonder how atheists get on with it all. You godless types okay with this?

it's kind hard to miss that Star Trek's been pretty clearly framed as fiction for forty odd years

oy vey

You'd be surprised what can throw people out of the rules they expect in particular fictional world. Mr Mercedes season 2 got mixed reactions when it went from grounded to supernatural. I can also imagine some people staying away from Ds9 because it's a little too spiritual. Trek tows the line well enough I suppose.

purlieu

Had a few days off for numerous reasons, back on it again now.
Faces. Started off in fairly uninteresting territory - oh dear, they're captured - but once the two sides of Torres met it became really good. I wish the show was brave enough - or of the right era - to spread that story out over several episodes, because I thought her character stuff had potential for a lot more exploration.
Vidiians an enjoyably unpleasant lot again, too, with just a hint of sympathy in the mix.

oy vey

That was a dark one. Compelling but not very rewatchable. The Vidiians are genuinely interesting. Way better than those sunburned Mad Max punks.

Poobum

Have to say I was disappointed with Faces on re-watch. What is good about it is squirreled away in small corners. Durst-Vidiian was great when he was on screen, with a mixture of insane depravity and sensitivity that gets you thinking about how a disease that rots you continuously piece by piece will skew your morality. It should have been the set up for a recurring villain, the actor certainly showed he could pull it off. I also find it funny that Voyager seemed to fuck off without helping all of the other prisoners; that poor Talaxian, worked until someone really needs his lungs.

Deanjam

Quote from: Poobum on April 20, 2021, 04:39:39 PM
I also find it funny that Voyager seemed to fuck off without helping all of the other prisoners; that poor Talaxian, worked until someone really needs his lungs.

This was brought up on the Delta Flyers episode about this one. Voyager has a tendency to gloss over some things in order to wrap up the episode quickly.