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March 29, 2024, 07:53:48 AM

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Star Trek - Voyager

Started by dr_christian_troy, October 05, 2020, 01:52:46 PM

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Lemming

Been a while since I've seen it (planning to join the episode-by-episode rewatch properly when we get to Season 3), but the thing that winds me up about Faces is that it suggests B'Elanna is justified in attributing her anger and quick-temperedness to having a "Klingon half". Which is annoying, because of course there is no "Klingon half" or "Human half", there's just B'Elanna. TNG was terrible for assuming every non-human race had innate characteristics, and the B'Elanna character was a chance to really fuck around with that concept and deconstruct it.

I suppose you could read it as the Klingon and the Human each embodying the traits which B'Elanna subjectively attributes to her respective heritages, rather than suggesting she actually does have a genetic "Klingon temper" or whatever.

Again, it's been years since I've seen the episode, so if I'm hugely mischaracterising it or even getting it arse-backwards, then apologies and someone please correct me.

Luckily there's a few really good Klingon episodes featuring B'Elanna coming up much later in the show's run, including one in Season 7 that's one of my favourite episodes of the whole series and among the best use of Klingons in any Berman-era show.

oy vey

QuoteThis was brought up on the Delta Flyers episode about this one. Voyager has a tendency to gloss over some things in order to wrap up the episode quickly.

44 minutes is short, but I recall asshole network UPN forced Voyager episodes down to 41 minutes later in the series so they could air more commercials. Fucking twonks.

QuoteBeen a while since I've seen it (planning to join the episode-by-episode rewatch properly when we get to Season 3), but the thing that winds me up about Faces is that it suggests B'Elanna is justified in attributing her anger and quick-temperedness to having a "Klingon half".

That's a fair point. In that respect TOS' The Enemy Within is a bit more nuanced. Who would have thought?

QuoteLuckily there's a few really good Klingon episodes featuring B'Elanna coming up much later in the show's run, including one in Season 7 that's one of my favourite episodes of the whole series and among the best use of Klingons in any Berman-era show.

For all the criticism of characters other than Doc/Seven getting neglected, I do think B'Elanna has some fine episodes throughout the series. That season 7 ep is great, yeah, and there's a Ronald D. Moore one later on... but no spoilers :)

purlieu

Jetrel. Well, that was mostly great. The main plot and clash between Neelix and Jetrel was handled well. Loses a point for the abominable dream sequence.

Deanjam

Quote from: purlieu on April 21, 2021, 02:31:34 PM
Jetrel.

Another example of how Neelix is actually the darkest and most depressive character in all Star Trek.

oy vey

That transport attempt at the end was creepy. Neelix's over emotional reactions to everything works here. Not very rewatchable but I liked it. Jetrel was played by the excellent James Sloyan (Dr. Mora on DS9).

Wonderful Butternut


Malcy

Decided to skip TNG & DS9 on the rewatch and go to Voyager. Been a long long time since I saw the early episodes.

Really enjoying it although watching in bed most nights and falling asleep. Tiredness rather than being bored. I'll spoiler the next bit for Purlieu's sake but if anyone has a better way of explaining it then please do.

Spoiler alert
Post title sequence cast/character credits can be quite spoilery. Watching The 37's and the big character reveal is a bit unnecessary. Couldn't they just not rather than giving away a big plot point before it happens? Likewise with Barclay an episode or 2 later, something I don't remember happening so early in the show. It was the same on every show. Sometimes it's not a massive thing to see who's going to be appearing in an episode but when you see the name going up before they appear it's a bit shit I feel.

Is it worth trying to figure out a way to say 'avoid the names on the bottom of the screen' without making it obvious there's a good reason not to?
[close]

Hope that makes sense.

Blumf


RDRR

About halfway through Season 2 and finally enjoying it again after sticking it out through some rough patches. I also agree that Eye of the Needle in S1 is an especially good episode and, after watching DS9 and TNG this last year, is right up there. I really enjoy the Romulans, as others have said they feel much better fleshed out than some of the other antagonist races (I have skipped a couple of Kazon episodes).

Just finished Death Wish which was a good one, at least in concept, although
Spoiler alert
the vision of the home of the Q continuum was very disappointing, and I also could not get over the hammy, contrived Picardesque syoo-i-cide pronunciation that seemed to have been forced on the cast. What the fuck was that, drove me fucking nuts. Found Janeway's court scenes annoyingly overacted and overwrought, too.
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Whoops, sorry, it was a good episode.

Found Cold Fire a bit too Harry Potter.
Spoiler alert
You'd show me mercy, after what I did to you?.
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Prototype was great and really funny, probably my favourite of this series so far, though Meld was good too.

PlanktonSideburns

On series 6 at the moment, feels like a hight point

Malcy

Just watching 'Partruition'.

Spoiler alert
Jem'Hadar ships? Not all that sure that the DS9 crew had encountered them by the time Voyager left. Although someone has integrated them into a holodeck training program! I'm even fairly certain that there's a line later on where they find out the Federation is at war "with something called The Dominion" as I think Janeway puts it.
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Mr Trumpet

Just watched the one where a Harry's best mate who we've never seen before comes back from the dead as an alien. The Kobali are an interesting idea for an alien race. Would be worth revisiting in the franchise at some point.

Also the writers are cowards for
Spoiler alert
not having Lindsey and Harry shag when she's all purple and weird looking.
[close]

Also along with the excellent Latent Image this marks the second story in which
Spoiler alert
we see an apparently well-beloved young female character with ties to Harry who is retroactively written in after her death. The actresses look pretty similar as well, and i've always had these two episodes muddled in my head as a consequence.
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RDRR

I think my favourite character is the guy (Baxter?) who just shows up to talk about how hard he's been caning it in the gym. Hoping we get a peak at his outrageous, freakish physique in a later episode. Maybe after they encounter some gym rat civilisation who offer the crew a vital fuel source on the condition they can beat them in a bodybuilding showdown

Just finished The Thaw. Really fun episode, and unexpectedly brutal. Please tell me that was Chuck from Better Call Saul?

purlieu

Will be back on this next week. Had some serious mental health shit for the past couple of weeks and needed to indulge in something much cosier and more familiar - rewatching 2point4 Children and the whole Partridge oeuvre - but eager to get back to the Delta Quadrant for some decent if slightly unremarkable Trek now.

JamesTC

Quote from: RDRR on May 14, 2021, 09:26:35 PM
Just finished The Thaw. Really fun episode, and unexpectedly brutal. Please tell me that was Chuck from Better Call Saul?

The Thaw is a favourite of mine. I feel like it doesn't get the recognition it deserves.

And that is Michael McKean. He is superb.

Deanjam

I like that the ending is Janeway outsmarting the clown, and not just shooting him with a photon torpedo.

Camp Tramp

The Thaw has the look and feel of one of the better ToS episodes. Janeway is actually pretty terrifying at the end.

I'm not a fan of Voyager but this is one of the episodes that is up there with anything produced by the other series.

Malcy

Quote from: purlieu on May 14, 2021, 09:28:19 PM
Will be back on this next week. Had some serious mental health shit for the past couple of weeks and needed to indulge in something much cosier and more familiar - rewatching 2point4 Children and the whole Partridge oeuvre - but eager to get back to the Delta Quadrant for some decent if slightly unremarkable Trek now.

Hope you're doing better Purlieu. Have been struggling myself recently. Two of the occasions I have felt at my best recently have been while watching Voyager & enjoying Partridge on This Time & the lovely Vinyl boxset of Knowing Me, Knowing You which I got today. All the best and looking forward to more of your reviews on your return to the Delta Quadrant.

RDRR

Quote from: JamesTC on May 14, 2021, 09:32:16 PM
And that is Michael McKean. He is superb.

Ah of course he's a famous actor. Still, a nice companion to Mike's appearance in TNG.

Was pleasantly surprised by the end of S2. Innocence/The Thaw/
Spoiler alert
Tuvix (speaking of Janeway being terrifying!)
[close]
was a really fun and thought-provoking series of episodes.
Spoiler alert
I enjoyed how Innocence drums home the importance of the prime directive (though it never seemed to make sense that they would start exploring/prospecting for resources on the other race's moons prior to consultation), whereas the conclusion to Tuvix was a stark contrast in that it felt to me very un-Star Trek
[close]
. Started watching Voyager with very low expectations but it's had some really solid high points so far. I think some of the ups and downs come from the same willingness to completely throw any pretence at scientific credibility to the wind.

The premise of the season finale/two-parter is irritatingly stupid
Spoiler alert
though I did enjoy that their heroic baby-rescue mission ended with them killing its mum and leaving. Not our problem mate it's a Kazon!
[close]
But was still decent fun
Spoiler alert
particularly Doctor and Murder Boy, and his final mission to murder lots of people causing him incredible emotional distress, then die. It's also just always fun seeing the huge spaceship setting down on a planet.
[close]

And as above, hope you're feeling better Purlieu. Enjoyed watching DS9 alongside your reviews, a little sad to have pulled ahead on this.

Lemming

Glad to see you back purlieu!

Quote from: RDRR on May 16, 2021, 01:46:59 PMStarted watching Voyager with very low expectations but it's had some really solid high points so far. I think some of the ups and downs come from the same willingness to completely throw any pretence at scientific credibility to the wind.

It gets even better over the course of  season 3 and 4 IMO, and then it keeps reliably pumping out plenty of great episodes all the way through to the end. Agreed about how the show's strength is its willingness to attempt basically any plot, at its best it feels like it's returning to TOS's "anything can happen" feeling.

purlieu

Thank you, fellow voyagers! Definitely on the up again and back onboard.

Learning Curve. Some nice Tuvok stuff there, but what a horribly rushed ending. Actually properly cringed at "we can learn to follow the rules". I did enjoy the fact that all the problems came from
Spoiler alert
Neelix's cheese
[close]
.

Deanjam

"Get this cheese to sickbay!" Love that line.

Lemming

That guy's line about what the Cardassian soldiers did always shocks me. Just not the kind of thing you expect to hear in Star Trek.

Johnny Textface

I've gone off ahead as enjoying this rewatch so much (not seen any since a mate used to buy them on VHS at release and lend me them, 4 episodes for £15?)

Tonight, however, I watched a Chekotay one called "Tattoo" and it was fucking abhorrent.

Mr Trumpet

They famously hired a charlatan to consult on Chakotay's Native American identity, which may be why stories focused on his heritage are never good.

Malcy

Quote from: Johnny Textface on June 04, 2021, 12:26:29 AM
I've gone off ahead as enjoying this rewatch so much (not seen any since a mate used to buy them on VHS at release and lend me them, 4 episodes for £15?)

Tonight, however, I watched a Chekotay one called "Tattoo" and it was fucking abhorrent.

2 episodes for £13.99 in WH Smith!

Johnny Textface


purlieu

Looks like I'm playing catchup now.

The 37's. This turned out a lot better than I thought it was going to. A really nice, warm episode all round, and although I'm not sure big reveals about real people from history are necessarily what I want from Star Trek - it's much more of a Doctor Who thing, really - I thought it worked out quite well. I would have preferred
Spoiler alert
a handful of the crew to leave at the end, as it was maybe a touch too saccharine
[close]
, but yeah, I liked it.
Also only just noticed that's the start of season 2. IMDB trivia tells me it was originally intended to be the final episode of the first season, which definitely makes sense with the potential ending. Kind of stunned it actually ended on the run-of-the-mill Learning Curve.

Projections. There's some good Doctor stuff in this, but overall it felt really underwhelming. The fact that he's
Spoiler alert
on the holodeck
[close]
was obvious to me almost from the start - the title doesn't help in that regard - and, ultimately, it lacked the gravitas of something like Frame of Mind or The Inner Light.

petril

Quote from: Deanjam on April 21, 2021, 04:43:04 PM
Another example of how Neelix is actually the darkest and most depressive character in all Star Trek.

yeah. just enough of his background to see despite the young, eagerness to please and fit in, his fate is going to be Leonard de Tompkinson. he'll be drifting forever, everyone's friend but with none of his own

purlieu

Initiations. Starring Nog as a Crap Klingon. The overall idea was what increasingly feels like typical Star Trek, done with a degree of competence but without really standing out. My favourite moment was probably Captain Neelix.