Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 28, 2024, 03:37:36 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger

Started by BlodwynPig, October 07, 2020, 06:42:38 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Buelligan

Quote from: Schrodingers Cat on October 14, 2020, 11:28:10 PM
She's another of these who make you wonder why they ever joined the Labour Party to begin with. Unless it genuinely was an attempt to infiltrate and destroy from within? They seem to have no ideals, no opinions beyond how it will play to Sun and Mail readers, as if they'll ever vote Labour. I always wonder what they would say if you asked them to describe their ideal society? If they could pass any pet policies through with no opposition, what hypothetically, would they be? All I can ever imagine them saying is, "basically the same as now, but forever". That thing above about how now is not the time to be thinking about nationalising key industries, etc, just sums it up. Things like that are not seen as part of the solution, but needless distractions that could and should only ever be thought of as little bonuses, whilst retaining the status quo. No imagination, or ideology whatsoever. And our glorious leader is bringing people like this in as advisors? We are well and truly fucked, aren't we?

Ask yourself what moral imperative or urge to do good compels people to take jobs with KPMG or Edelman UK.  None.  There are people who see a career in politics as a stepping stone to power and nothing else, some but not all, of them join the Tories.

Yes, fucked.

Quote

That's a good point SC. They hide behind the 'you can't do lefty stuff like that, the public won't accept it, we're just being practical and dealing with the hand we've been dealt' argument but really they don't actually want to do anything to change things.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, and a convenient excuse to carry on with the same old middle-of-the-road policies, mindset and ideas that simply delay the inevitable for slightly longer than The Tories' breakneck toboggan ride to oblivion.

Blumf


idunnosomename

Duffield should be writing for the daily mail, not being MP for canterbury. anyway, she's got a whole student population who utterly despise her, it wont end well for her




king_tubby


Absorb the anus burn


Paul Calf


Thomas

Quote from: pancreas on October 15, 2020, 01:24:11 AM
Len micturates on the moralising foetus.

I'm reading This Land at the moment. I'm finding it useful and insightful - the chapter on Brexit in particular lays out with great clarity the competing factions within Labour, and the complicated impact they had.

Reading it, I don't think Jones is excessively harsh on Corbyn. Corbyn's flaws are picked over, yes (I didn't know he was so prone to going AWOL), but there are many earnest words from his supporters and friends, and there's an undercurrent sense throughout of the battles McCluskey is talking about. Indeed, they are detailed early in the book - from the actions of bad faith MPs to the sabotage of staffers at Labour HQ.

In the chapter on antisemitism, it does feel as though Jones wishes he could reach back in time and clip Corbyn round the ear for making some poor decisions (decisions that people like McDonnell were trying to discourage at the time, to no avail), but the chapter on Brexit is clearly sympathetic toward Corbyn's impossible position. And the former explores Corbyn's personal 'heartbreak' at being branded a racist despite his life of anti-racist campaigning. Len says Jones demonstrates 'no empathy', but it's not true.

Len also praises Stephen Bush's review of the book - but Bush is arguably harsher on Corbyn in his conclusions than Jones.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: king_tubby on October 15, 2020, 09:33:03 AM
The adults are back in charge!

They'll spin this as 'listening', but the fact is they could've searched twitter rather than leaving it to people on twitter, if Corbyn flopped they'd be saying it's a shambles, of course.


phantom_power

Quote from: Quote on October 14, 2020, 11:48:09 PM
That's a good point SC. They hide behind the 'you can't do lefty stuff like that, the public won't accept it, we're just being practical and dealing with the hand we've been dealt' argument but really they don't actually want to do anything to change things.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, and a convenient excuse to carry on with the same old middle-of-the-road policies, mindset and ideas that simply delay the inevitable for slightly longer than The Tories' breakneck toboggan ride to oblivion.

The thing is a lot of the policies in the last manifesto are not super-lefty and proved quite popular. They may have pushed their luck with the private schools thing and a couple of other ideas but generally they could have been sold to the public. Even more so now a pandemic has shown that everyone is a secret socialist when the shit hits the fan

holyzombiejesus

Quote from: Thomas on October 15, 2020, 10:05:37 AM
I'm reading This Land at the moment. I'm finding it useful and insightful - the chapter on Brexit in particular lays out with great clarity the competing factions within Labour, and the complicated impact they had.

Reading it, I don't think Jones is excessively harsh on Corbyn. Corbyn's flaws are picked over, yes (I didn't know he was so prone to going AWOL), but there are many earnest words from his supporters and friends, and there's an undercurrent sense throughout of the battles McCluskey is talking about. Indeed, they are detailed early in the book - from the actions of bad faith MPs to the sabotage of staffers at Labour HQ.

In the chapter on antisemitism, it does feel as though Jones wishes he could reach back in time and clip Corbyn round the ear for making some poor decisions (decisions that people like McDonnell were trying to discourage at the time, to no avail), but the chapter on Brexit is clearly sympathetic toward Corbyn's impossible position. And the former explores Corbyn's personal 'heartbreak' at being branded a racist despite his life of anti-racist campaigning. Len says Jones demonstrates 'no empathy', but it's not true.

Len also praises Stephen Bush's review of the book - but Bush is arguably harsher on Corbyn in his conclusions than Jones.

I finished it yesterday and thought it was pretty good although that Left Out one was better. I thought you could tell he didn't like Milne at alland idolised Andrew Fisher, and Left Out has a far more balanced view of the two of them. There are some awful lines in it - that one about the Upside Down was terrible - but the jam anecdote more than made up for it.


SpiderChrist

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/15/dan-carden-quits-labour-frontbench-over-failure-to-oppose-mi5-bill

Wow. Principles. Remember them?

QuoteOne ally of Carden suggested there could be more resignations in the days ahead over Labour's stance on the bill, which has heightened fears on the left of the party that Starmer will not defend civil liberties robustly.

Thomas

Quote from: holyzombiejesus on October 15, 2020, 11:49:26 AM
There are some awful lines in it - that one about the Upside Down was terrible - but the jam anecdote more than made up for it.

I was amused by how much extraneous information Owen provided when he used pop culture analogies like that. He references Black Mirror: Bandersnatch as a comparison at one point, which is fine (basically saying 'Brexit would've turn out badly whatever choices were made'), but for some reason he makes sure to give us the full name of the episode's main character.


Mantle Retractor


Bernice

Excellent stuff. Or y'know, far-left marxist anti-semitic agitation.

peanutbutter

Quote from: idunnosomename on October 14, 2020, 11:55:00 PM
Duffield should be writing for the daily mail, not being MP for canterbury. anyway, she's got a whole student population who utterly despise her, it wont end well for her
I'd say Duffield decided she wasn't going to seek re-election in 2024 some time last November. She was possibly hoping she'd lose her seat this time around even. The second the election ended she became full on insufferable and has been endlessly doubling down since.

She used the enthusiasm of a minority of voters in the area to win a seat Labour shouldn't be bothering their arses with. When she opts to not run again in 2024 labour should leave that one to the lib dems if the alternative is pooling a ton of resources to deal with someone like her within the PLP.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quote from: SpiderChrist on October 15, 2020, 12:25:34 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/15/dan-carden-quits-labour-frontbench-over-failure-to-oppose-mi5-bill

Wow. Principles. Remember them?

This is a despicable piece of shit bill that Tony Blair's wildest authoritarian fantasies couldn't have conceived.

A clear opportunity for Starmer to have made cheap appeasement to the left at no political loss by directing we oppose it, but instead could barely have sent a stronger signal that we on the left can all get fucked, including apparently, parts of his own cabinet.

I have gone from thinking he won't be as left wing as he is making out to thinking that this bloke is going to be as bad as Blair, if not worse.

His defenders on here become quieter every week.



Buelligan

You can't blame it all on the government though.  Starmer should be fighting this tooth and nail, instead, he's setting out the tea cups and plating up the hobnobs.  He's a fucking cunt.

NoSleep

I think that's his point; Starmer is taking the Tory bait. They're exploring how far his triangulation will stretch.


Sebastian Cobb



Is the plan to do little more than exist and hope the waiting pays off?

This hubris is very similar to that expressed by tig isn't it? That simply by being blariites they'll win just like he did.

Cuellar

I thought the abstaining 'strategy' was to abstain at this stage but then make amendments - what is the thinking behind abstaining, rather than voting against, if it ends up UNamended?

Sebastian Cobb

I saw some centrists try and claim that they would be walking into 'elephant traps' laid by the tories if they abstained. But the first time they abstained the tories released a load of smears as if they'd voted against, and besides if Labour is so concerned about the tories saying nasty things now if they do the right thing because they think it might temporarily dent approval, with an election so far away, it is already morally and functionally paralysed.