Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 29, 2024, 07:16:15 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger

Started by BlodwynPig, October 07, 2020, 06:42:38 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quoteanyway what do think it is a conspiracy?".

This is the new intellectual laziness of the liberal centre.

They've erred far out of rational range that they throw accusations of conspiraloons at people who are pointing out conceits containing dynamics and motivations that are so obvious that anyone looking coldly and dispassionately at them wouldn't even have to concede it was true, it is just that clear.

Next conspiracy hot off the press, the vile plot by the media to sensationalise the news to gain a bigger audience share and employ  hack grifters to publish controversial opinion points in order to maximise click throughs and ad revenues. But, but... no, the media are there to report the news you loon!

TrenterPercenter

Exactly.

I've got a friend whom this has been a constant battle with.  He has definitely added to my JOB issues.  He literally repeats word for word sometimes what JOB says and then swears blind he isn't. 

He was going on about the footballification of politics the other day as if that wasn't a meme started by JOB.

I hate to say it but a lot of people are very passive in the media they consume.  They seem to think that by just consuming it passively they are immune to any disinformation, as they know their own mind and well they would know wouldn't they if they were being lied too.  This of course isn't how it works there is always an interaction to some degree.

Another great example was this lad and his mate cornering me one night and just outright assuming I only hated Blair for Iraq "But come on Trenter, apart from the Iraq war you don't really have anything negative to say about Blair".  Obviously I did and we nearly almost had an interesting discussion about all of the other problems with Blair.

That is just another JOBism btw, he was pumping out the "Yes Iraq was bad, if only Blair hadn't done this then people would see how great he was".  It's all sadly very predictable for certain types of people.

lipsink

I remember someone saying to me "I mean Corbyn is unelectable though" like it was this profound insight. He struggled to come up with an explanation why he thought this though.  I think a lot of people just have a quick scan at the stuff being thrown at them on social media and memorise a few buzzwords that they can say in conversations to look impressive.

It does annoy me when I'm talking to people and I hear myself sounding like a conspiracy theorist saying "The media is against the left, don't you see?"

TrenterPercenter

#2583
There is a lot of stuff going on with these things. 

The repetition of lines and the often emotive framing that comes with the media.  Then you have the safety in numbers mentality of the consumer i.e. If the MSM are saying it then other people agree with it therefore if I agree with it then I am with the majority or at least have powerful people to agree with tangible views I can point to.  Then you have (as mentioned) over estimation of the human mind to detect and protect itself against media influence and under estimation of the sophisticated effort that goes into PR.

jobotic

Quote from: lipsink on November 22, 2020, 05:42:40 PM
I dunno if I can be arsed listening to Frankie Boyle. I'm not really buying his suddenly 'woke' re-invention. Particularly after all the horrible cunty things he said in the past.

And in his recent programme. XR are all middle-class wankers playing etc etc he says to his table full of middle-class media people. Up there with that HIGNFY woman whose name I've forgotten. Louise something.

BlodwynPig


Cuellar



Kelvin

He's obviously a complete cunt, but all the people saying "Oh, so he thinks it's okay to kill socialists?!" need a fucking kick up the arse, as well. It's genuinely pathetic. We have gone from overusing and abusing irony to acting like children who can't even comprehend it. Call him a hack cunt. Say the producers, the panel, the BBC are all part of the wider problem. But don't continue to disingenuously weaponise offense in such an infantile, embarrassing way.   

Kelvin

Just to point out that I meant the people quoted in that article, not anyone here.

scarecrow

Quote from: Kelvin on November 22, 2020, 11:20:30 PM
He's obviously a complete cunt, but all the people saying "Oh, so he thinks it's okay to kill socialists?!" need a fucking kick up the arse, as well. It's genuinely pathetic. We have gone from overusing and abusing irony to acting like children who can't even comprehend it. Call him a hack cunt. Say the producers, the panel, the BBC are all part of the wider problem. But don't continue to disingenuously weaponise offense in such an infantile, embarrassing way.
To be fair though, I'm not sure what he said even qualified as a joke. It's very hard to mount a defence of it when it amounted to little more than a violent expression of hostility toward socialists, sandwiched between straight-faced attempts to smear and denigrate Corbyn.

I wouldn't say I was offended by it personally, but I was shocked that even the BBC would see fit to broadcast something so reactionary and hateful. I think you're being really disingenuous if you deny that the clip contributes to the normalisation of violent attitudes toward the left.

chveik

Quote from: Kelvin on November 22, 2020, 11:20:30 PM
He's obviously a complete cunt, but all the people saying "Oh, so he thinks it's okay to kill socialists?!" need a fucking kick up the arse, as well. It's genuinely pathetic. We have gone from overusing and abusing irony to acting like children who can't even comprehend it. Call him a hack cunt. Say the producers, the panel, the BBC are all part of the wider problem. But don't continue to disingenuously weaponise offense in such an infantile, embarrassing way.

so much for the tolerant left

and where's the irony in that statement? was he wearing an animal costume?

Buelligan

Quote from: Kelvin on November 22, 2020, 11:20:30 PM
He's obviously a complete cunt, but all the people saying "Oh, so he thinks it's okay to kill socialists?!" need a fucking kick up the arse, as well. It's genuinely pathetic. We have gone from overusing and abusing irony to acting like children who can't even comprehend it. Call him a hack cunt. Say the producers, the panel, the BBC are all part of the wider problem. But don't continue to disingenuously weaponise offense in such an infantile, embarrassing way.

You are absolutely correct.  Unknown says something DangerMan for why?  Come on, quick, answer!  We all know why and yet, inexplicably, insist on giving it to him.  Meanwhile dimly-lit poisonous Bakewell slinks off to House of Lords. 

Having said that, if I were a member of the Eavis family, I might feel differently. 

BlodwynPig

Quote from: Kelvin on November 22, 2020, 11:33:44 PM
Just to point out that I meant the people quoted in that article, not anyone here.

It's still one rule for them, another for a man who has striven for justice and peace all his life and gets bombarded with hate for liking a piece of art.

No, Kelvin, you are wrong on this. Exaggerated opprobrium is justified here and I hope that cunt is jobless for 6 years in penance. Time to reflect. By the time he returns to work, Corbyn will be in power and he'll have seen the light.

Ohhhhhhh Jerrrreemmmmy Corrrrrbyyyyynnnn.

BlodwynPig

Quote from: Buelligan on November 23, 2020, 06:20:14 AM
You are absolutely correct.  Unknown says something DangerMan for why?  Come on, quick, answer!  We all know why and yet, inexplicably, insist on giving it to him.  Meanwhile dimly-lit poisonous Bakewell slinks off to House of Lords. 

Having said that, if I were a member of the Eavis family, I might feel differently.

Be thankful that Groat Britaun is not the US, where easy access to guns and various amendments mean a terror attack on socialists is less likely. But mostly because only middle aged middle class cowards watch HIGNIFY these days.

Buelligan

Precisely.  It does make me wonder what people make of the remark in the light of events like the Manchester Arena attack.  Nevertheless, it's obvious that this person said what he did quite aware of that and aware of what the reaction might be.  Courting that reaction.

IMO, not because he wanted to score a point against the woke but because he looks forward to being rewarded for repeating his media catechism word-perfect with a nice fat job.  There are lots in that queue.  Don't give the cunt the oxygen he so clearly hopes for.

Paul Calf

Quote"People who like Corbyn – what, it's 200,000 people in the Labour party that are fanatics? So, all you've gotta do is, next year, bomb Glastonbury."

The controversy is a drigible airship on which this remark is painted, and it floats over the land and people are so busy going "LOOK! AN AIRSHIP! That they fail to notice that they've absorbed the message written on the side of it.

Stop boosting these gurning, moronic shitbags. Just fucking stop it.

thugler

Quote from: scarecrow on November 23, 2020, 12:42:12 AM
To be fair though, I'm not sure what he said even qualified as a joke. It's very hard to mount a defence of it when it amounted to little more than a violent expression of hostility toward socialists, sandwiched between straight-faced attempts to smear and denigrate Corbyn.

I wouldn't say I was offended by it personally, but I was shocked that even the BBC would see fit to broadcast something so reactionary and hateful. I think you're being really disingenuous if you deny that the clip contributes to the normalisation of violent attitudes toward the left.

That's the same bbc that made several anti corbyn hit pieces in the guise of 'investigative journalism'

TrenterPercenter

What is particularly galling is how the Indie reports Hislops retort about him not working again as if that was some kind of reconpense of his behaviour, when we all know without even seeing it that it was one of Hislops 4th wall moments.

What would actually be funny and smart would have been saying something like "That's the type of talk that will get writing for Murdoch!" or even smarter "Are you angling for a column in the Guardian?" As he calls it, it implies the comedy is coming from either a) he has said something career endingly shockingly - yet here he is being broadcast on the BBC with Hislop making a joke out of it or b) Corbyn supporters could stop him working somehow which is counter to Corbynism being "rejected".  I'm over thinking it of course it's just shit for cunts looking for something edgy not-edgy in their inert political shows. 

It does however speak to the larger issue with comedy at the moment, which isn't that it sometimes punches down to Corbynites or takes the piss out of Corbyn, but the fact it is so toothless towards the press and establishment[nb]this for me is a broader issue about the commodification of culture that has been going on since the 80s but really picked up from the early 90s[/nb]. 

I do agree with Kelvin exageratting this stuff into a real threat isn't a good look especially whilst other sections of the left indulge in dark humour regularly.  Being able to say this edgy stuff is and has been important for the left.  Being able to take a joke or an insult and keep your cool (which Corbyn himself is often very good at) is quite an attractive quality and a nod to understanding your abusers, whilst slipping them something back that neither under or overshoots is desirable.  Or just be smart, like Foster is by pointing to the bigger picture.

king_tubby


Kelvin

Quote from: scarecrow on November 23, 2020, 12:42:12 AM
To be fair though, I'm not sure what he said even qualified as a joke. It's very hard to mount a defence of it when it amounted to little more than a violent expression of hostility toward socialists, sandwiched between straight-faced attempts to smear and denigrate Corbyn.

I'm not defending his joke, I'm simply pointing out that anyone saying they think he meant it literally (that he wants socialists dead) is either incredibly thick, or more likely, being intentionally disingenuous.

lipsink

There's 2 comedians I know who have done jokes about Corbyn being anti-semetic onstage. It's just so pathetic cos they think they're "saying the unsayable" and in the routines it's just presented as fact that Corbyn is anti-semitic. I just hope these people feel embarrassed looking back in a few years the same way Frankie Boyle and other acts feel embarrassed about their indefensible cruel jokes from about 10 years ago. Though I can't see that day coming for quite some time.

Comedians are by and large narcissistic tossers who will throw anyone under the bus to further their career or get a quick laugh. When the public mood changes they'll make a big deal of "Obviously I wouldn't do that joke now"/"lessons learned" bollocks.

Buelligan


NoSleep


TrenterPercenter

Quote from: king_tubby on November 23, 2020, 08:22:14 AM
Do you think these people have just memory holed Jo Cox?

The likelihood is that they over-egged[nb]It was a tragedy and much should be taken from in political discourse and culture, it is just the over emotionalising of people regarding the death of someone they never knew anything about prior is odd[/nb] at the time because it was expedient and then forgot about it.

It is a great point and it is the hypocrisy that needs pointing out rather than outrage.  I think hypocrisy in the modern age is really important.  The opposite of hypocrisy is integrity, which most people from their frame of reference think they have.  Imo this is really powerful weapon against those in the centre that are trying to stand on a platform of integrity whilst arguing for things like, oh I don't know, political interference with due process perhaps.  The things is in order to highlight and reduce peoples faith in these hypocritics you need to be ensuring your audience sees you as authentic and having integrity yourself[nb]Went off on a psych tangent at this point so i'll put this all here - Ensuring an ego is kept on a even kiel is something people do almost autonomically (i.e. without conscious effort), we do this by affirminnig little things to ourselves like "the greater good" or "the person is deserving of this" which acts to divert attention away from more rational assessments that might go against how we are feeling.  Emotions are strong drivers of behaviour and actions, how we manage and organise our emotions internally are highly linked to how we experience representations of the self, and also how other externally may define our personality.

Being accused of being a hypocrite therefore hurts as it becomes an attack on ones representation of their own self integrity.  Once "attacked" the first thing most people do (it's natural we all do it) is to defend and remove this threat, in this process we close off avenues to what reflecting on our own hypocrises actually does, i.e. refine our world view into a better more consistent one.  Reflecting in this way isn't synonymous with giving up on our beliefs, what you believe can be right, how you go about talking about it can be hypocritical (e.g. MRA's fighting for equality by being sexist to women).[/nb].

This of course being the very hit job orchastrated on Corbyn(ism).

The trap was that Corbynites were first labelled a cult, that they would blinkerdly follow their messiah regardless and see no fault in the great leader, then they attacked him in an area with an element of truth (there were some cases of AS in the Labour Party) but not proportionally to reality with the links to Corbyn highly questionable.  Then they waited for Corbynites to deny everything and anything, something the audience would see as proof of the first part (being a cult) and therefore it wasn't because they were just saying it (like they tried before) but Corbynites were actively doing it. 

The perceived inability to criticise Corbyn, rightly or wrongly, fufilled the second part of those that set the trap initially.  Now we have no mark comedians making shit jokes about it on primetime political comedy shows.


TrenterPercenter


Zetetic

Would it have been a worse or better joke if he'd suggested using a car or a gun?

Zetetic


jobotic

Hislop's reaction is just "oh no you didn't!" isn't it?

As if it's brave to parrot the words of the entire media, the Tory Party and those in charge of the Labour Party.