Author Topic: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger  (Read 79425 times)

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2700 on: November 24, 2020, 11:02:29 AM »
I think he's on his way out but not gone yet.

And what about Steve Bell?

pigamus

  • Member
  • **
  • Sex, death, mayonnaise.
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2701 on: November 24, 2020, 11:08:37 AM »

Sebastian Cobb

  • bad opinion haver
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2702 on: November 24, 2020, 11:12:00 AM »
"I don't want a civil war" says man bungling his way into a civil war.

If this cunt got to be PM I bet he'd start a war by accident.

Blumf

  • Not long now
    • IGNORE ME!!!
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2703 on: November 24, 2020, 11:30:05 AM »
I thought Bell had been sacked?

He's just going to be easing off on the daily 'If...' strips, still doing the 'Leaders'.

https://www.belltoons.co.uk/hotoffpress
Quote
In July 2020, after major cutbacks were proposed by the Guardian Media Group, a false story appeared on Twitter and other online media outlets purporting to announce that Steve Bell had been sacked and that this was unrelated to any such cutbacks. The original story was potentially malicious and lacked confirmation from either The Guardian or Steve Bell himself. Since the negotiations regarding the future of the paper and its workforce are still ongoing, and subject to agreement with the NUJ (National Union of Journalists) Chapel at the Guardian, no contributor or member of staff can as yet be entirely certain of their position there. Steve Bell has been an NUJ member since 1978.

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2704 on: November 24, 2020, 11:31:56 AM »

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2705 on: November 24, 2020, 11:43:57 AM »
And now this -

Quote from: Labour List
In internal Labour news, Jeremy Corbyn has been told by chief whip Nick Brown to apologise for the comments that led to his suspension and edit or delete the original Facebook post. Few believe that the former party leader will issue such an apology, and the matter will therefore go through the courts or drag on until Corbyn’s disciplinary case goes through a new independent system. Meanwhile, the party’s left flank is struggling to keep hold of any power base. The leadership is changing the process by which Labour’s national executive committee chair is chosen, which will see Margaret Beckett head the body rather than the FBU’s Ian Murray who signed the letter criticising Corbyn’s whip suspension last week.

The first meeting of the new NEC is taking place today, and it was set to be another long and fiery one – but I’ve just been told the Labour left have walked out, digitally speaking. They are furious, as reported last night, over the NEC chair decision that they say represents a rejection of left-wing trade unions, especially after the Bakers’ Union last week announced it would consult members on staying affiliated to Labour. A row over Young Labour aggravated the situation after its new chair said Labour’s head office had ordered the removal of a statement opposing the Corbyn whip decision. Margaret Beckett has been elected unanimously as Labour’s new NEC chair and Alice Perry as vice-chair.

My bold.  Good for Laura and all who walked out.

https://labourlist.org/2020/11/labours-ruling-body-descends-into-infighting-over-nec-chair-role/

Cuellar

  • I'm over here
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2706 on: November 24, 2020, 11:46:05 AM »
NEW PARTY NOW

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2707 on: November 24, 2020, 11:49:30 AM »
Fucking hell, Margaret Fucking Beckett.  Is that what people kept paying their subs for, so's they could impose Margaret Beckett on us as Chair of the NEC?  Living the fucking dream.

Blinder Data

  • Use your library
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2708 on: November 24, 2020, 11:57:18 AM »
Left NEC members staged a walk-out because they lost a vote and the election of the Chair has gone back to the system it was before 2017.

It's got them headlines so mission accomplished, I suppose.

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2709 on: November 24, 2020, 12:04:27 PM »
They lost a vote on who would be Chair because the leadership changed the rules at the last to ensure that their preferred candidate was elected.  This isn't the first time this week that the leadership has ignored, bent or changed the rules of the Party to engineer whatever undemocratic outcome it desires.  I'm guessing it won't be the last.

Starmer has to go.

https://twitter.com/michaeljswalker/status/1330988636259627010?s=21

NoSleep

  • Me and the hedgehog, we bursting the tyres all day
    • Space Is The Place

Blinder Data

  • Use your library
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2711 on: November 24, 2020, 12:13:53 PM »
It's not surprising that they changed the rules back to the old system when the new NEC Chair would've been the guy who signed a letter criticising Starmer. What's the point of having a majority on the NEC if you're not going to use it to win votes? When the NEC had a left majority it made various rule changes under Corbyn.

I can understand that the left aren't happy but this feels like a big PR move more than anything. Are they going to stage walk-outs every time they lose votes?

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2712 on: November 24, 2020, 12:19:32 PM »
Reversing rules, back to those abandoned in the past because they were undemocratic to make sure you (the leadership) can override the members' elected choice - is good thing? 

Dear god, wake up to yourself man.

If the leadership are so open and proud about all of this, why don't they announce it, publicly, first?

Shoulders?-Stomach!

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Slime-fit for a piss binge
    • http://jackanderton.jamendo.net/
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2713 on: November 24, 2020, 12:30:34 PM »
Blinder Data's capacity to overlook this mendacity, not only in isolation but in context, the latest in a detailed audit trail stretching back 5 years, while also stopping off to criticise the Left's walkout (as if they had any realistic alternative) is becoming rather stagey and preposterous.

NoSleep

  • Me and the hedgehog, we bursting the tyres all day
    • Space Is The Place
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2714 on: November 24, 2020, 12:40:02 PM »
Imagine siding with Luke Akehurst.

Blinder Data

  • Use your library
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2715 on: November 24, 2020, 02:07:19 PM »
This is what happens when you have a majority on the NEC - there's no point not using it. It's grubby bowling club AGM stuff. You make sure you have the support, you put forward rule changes, you win votes. The problem for the left is that they weren't able to make enough rule changes when they had the majority. It's not particularly biased or factional to point this out.

Reversing rules, back to those abandoned in the past because they were undemocratic to make sure you (the leadership) can override the members' elected choice - is good thing?

In what sense was Ian Murray of the FBU the members' elected choice? The NEC (or those of them that didn't walk out) voted for Margaret Beckett.

Blinder Data's capacity to overlook this mendacity, not only in isolation but in context, the latest in a detailed audit trail stretching back 5 years, while also stopping off to criticise the Left's walkout (as if they had any realistic alternative) is becoming rather stagey and preposterous.

I suppose I have a strange duty to keep replying to this thread, even though I have often derided it (and been told to f off). I think it's worthwhile to put forward an alternative view otherwise it's just links to Twitter and a million STARMER BAD posts, which is boring.

Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2716 on: November 24, 2020, 02:15:38 PM »
They lost a vote on who would be Chair because the leadership changed the rules at the last to ensure that their preferred candidate was elected.  This isn't the first time this week that the leadership has ignored, bent or changed the rules of the Party to engineer whatever undemocratic outcome it desires.  I'm guessing it won't be the last.

Starmer has to go.

https://twitter.com/michaeljswalker/status/1330988636259627010?s=21

He has to go? Half a year after winning a leadership election comfortably and bringing Labour neck and neck with the Conservatives (let alone his own positive polling numbers)?

Shoulders?-Stomach!

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Slime-fit for a piss binge
    • http://jackanderton.jamendo.net/
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2717 on: November 24, 2020, 02:18:40 PM »
Quote
Half a year after winning a leadership election comfortably and bringing Labour neck and neck with the Conservatives

You mean the position Corbyn was in until the centrist suicide bombers left to form Change UK? Wow, how with a fairer wind during a botched pandemic did he achieve this miracle?

Cuellar

  • I'm over here
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2718 on: November 24, 2020, 02:21:14 PM »
He has to go? Half a year after winning a leadership election comfortably and bringing Labour neck and neck with the Conservatives (let alone his own positive polling numbers)?

He has FAILED to do anything about antisemitism, he has FAILED to do anything about the rampant islamophobia in his Labour Party, he has given free rein to the police and intelligence services to commit all and any crimes against BRITISH CITIZENS.

He has FAILED.

Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2719 on: November 24, 2020, 02:32:23 PM »
He has FAILED to do anything about antisemitism, he has FAILED to do anything about the rampant islamophobia in his Labour Party, he has given free rein to the police and intelligence services to commit all and any crimes against BRITISH CITIZENS.

He has FAILED.

The Tory 'spy cops' bill was a massive bear trap for Starmer and Labour. It was going to hurt them whatever happened. Maybe abstaining was the least worst option. Maybe it was cowardice. We know Starmer is trying to position Labour as being less 'weak' on security and law and order. It's a doozy for the Tories to hammer this side of the political agenda. I know you shouldn't try to beat Nazis by acting like a Nazi but he's in the business of winning elections and you have to make concessions to the voters sometimes.

Starmer isn't going to have tackled prejudice and discrimination in the party within six months, but yes, this is a very serious problem. I would be very happy with every Islamophobe or anti-Semite being kicked out of Labour, but I'm assuming we have to make allowances for 'legitimate' criticisms of Israel of course (other horrible regimes getting a relative free ride - it's funny though because Nandy, as chair of Labour Friends of Israel, actually comes across as the most moral Lab Foreign Sec or Shadow for some time).

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2720 on: November 24, 2020, 02:33:10 PM »
Nandy's a pointless little placeholder.  If you think she's moral, you obviously don't know what you're talking about (like her).

This is what happens when you have a majority on the NEC - there's no point not using it. It's grubby bowling club AGM stuff. You make sure you have the support, you put forward rule changes, you win votes. The problem for the left is that they weren't able to make enough rule changes when they had the majority. It's not particularly biased or factional to point this out.

In what sense was Ian Murray of the FBU the members' elected choice? The NEC (or those of them that didn't walk out) voted for Margaret Beckett.

As I understand it, the Leadership changed the way the NEC elections (just for those delegates elected by the membership) were run.  When that didn't give them enough of an advantage, they sprung the reversal back to the old undemocratic way of electing the Chair, because it was clear that, as you acknowledged yourself earlier, a Chair that they did not want would otherwise be elected.  Murray was the members' elected choice because it was him who would have been Chair under the rules that stood when the membership chose who to vote for.

How many members would have voted for Starmer if he hadn't made it his business to lie to them about his priorities and intentions?  To mislead the membership in order to gain power, not to do good, not to stand against stuff like the Spy Cops bill.  Power for its own sake.  And, even worse, power to destroy those who would do good.  This person has no regard for due process, natural justice, honesty, fairness or democracy.  Anyone who backs him must be deluded or similar to him in outlook.

BlodwynPig

  • The Last Living Member of COVID-20
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2721 on: November 24, 2020, 02:33:20 PM »
He has to go? Half a year after winning a leadership election comfortably and bringing Labour neck and neck with the Conservatives (let alone his own positive polling numbers)?

Off you trot, TO THE TUMBLE DRYER OF COWS.

Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2722 on: November 24, 2020, 02:36:33 PM »
Our CLP Facebook page has been discussing this and all the usual suspects were bullshitting away stating how Corbyn's statement had caused and pain and upset for the Jewish community. Then a (Jewish) member who hadn't ever posted before popped up with this and it was ace as they all had to shut the fuck up and close their stupid fucking mouths.

Quote
Corbyn's statement came as a relief to many of my family members who are sickened how the right have used them and weaponised an argument which has been going on in the jewish community for decades even longer if you understand the history of zionism. His response relieved many jews (some of my elderly family included) who had been terrified by news reports of Corbyn creating pogroms and concentration camps all of which were told across the bbc on programmes such as politics live radio 4 very much mainstream fostering of fear. If you do not believe this has been weaponised to harm jewish people then you're incredibly foolish. If you give a damn about jewish people and free speech you'd start bloody educating yourself on jewish culture which is robust and not one of victimhood.

Cuellar

  • I'm over here
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2723 on: November 24, 2020, 06:13:01 PM »
The Tory 'spy cops' bill was a massive bear trap for Starmer and Labour. It was going to hurt them whatever happened. Maybe abstaining was the least worst option. Maybe it was cowardice. We know Starmer is trying to position Labour as being less 'weak' on security and law and order. It's a doozy for the Tories to hammer this side of the political agenda. I know you shouldn't try to beat Nazis by acting like a Nazi but he's in the business of winning elections and you have to make concessions to the voters sometimes.

Starmer isn't going to have tackled prejudice and discrimination in the party within six months, but yes, this is a very serious problem. I would be very happy with every Islamophobe or anti-Semite being kicked out of Labour, but I'm assuming we have to make allowances for 'legitimate' criticisms of Israel of course (other horrible regimes getting a relative free ride - it's funny though because Nandy, as chair of Labour Friends of Israel, actually comes across as the most moral Lab Foreign Sec or Shadow for some time).

mate I don't really care to be honest

Shoulders?-Stomach!

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Slime-fit for a piss binge
    • http://jackanderton.jamendo.net/
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2724 on: November 24, 2020, 07:24:00 PM »
Still ready and waiting to receive the explanation as to why Starmer achieving the same polling performance for 3 months that Corbyn was achieving from June 2017-March 2019 counts as a thunderous success during a period where the government have neglectfully killed 40,000 people.




BlodwynPig

  • The Last Living Member of COVID-20
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2725 on: November 24, 2020, 07:26:21 PM »
Still ready and waiting to receive the explanation as to why Starmer achieving the same polling performance for 3 months that Corbyn was achieving from June 2017-March 2019 counts as a thunderous success during a period where the government had neglectfully killed 40,000 people.


Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2726 on: November 24, 2020, 07:34:50 PM »
Still ready and waiting to receive the explanation as to why Starmer achieving the same polling performance for 3 months that Corbyn was achieving from June 2017-March 2019 counts as a thunderous success during a period where the government have neglectfully killed 40,000 people.

Plus all the stuff about paying their mates millions and millions in tax-payer's hard-earned for (often) bugger-all.  I mean, how could they be a shitter government?

BlodwynPig

  • The Last Living Member of COVID-20
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2727 on: November 24, 2020, 07:35:57 PM »
Plus all the stuff about paying their mates millions and millions in tax-payer's hard-earned for (often) bugger-all.  I mean, how could they be a shitter government?

kEITH IN CHARG?

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2728 on: November 24, 2020, 07:45:27 PM »
No, I don't think that would be shitter.  The tories are, IMO, pound for pound, more evil than almost all of the PLP even if Keith's lot are able to equal them in disregard for natural justice and the inability to run a fucking ballroom, the tories win but not by a country mile.  Not at all, which is shameful and only down to the SCG.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Slime-fit for a piss binge
    • http://jackanderton.jamendo.net/
Re: Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger
« Reply #2729 on: November 24, 2020, 07:53:07 PM »
As part of Keith's pledge to End Factionalism I eagerly await the disbanding of Labour to Win, Labour Friends of Israel, Labour Free Cunnilingus to Tax Avoiders, Labour Migrant Crackdown, Labour Paedohunter Defenders of the Night, The Baker's Union Splinter Group of Flour-Addled Warmongers

Tags: