Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 28, 2024, 01:55:57 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Labour Party Desolation v3: Abstainence Makes the Farce Grow Stronger

Started by BlodwynPig, October 07, 2020, 06:42:38 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Buelligan

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on November 28, 2020, 06:18:57 PM
I understand this, I think this is down to replacement meaning different things in our two contexts.

I'm talking about pracitically replacing him......which means precipitating and winning a leadership election.  Precipitating that leadership election means the membership and the PLP have to be very unhappy with him and he has just done one of the most controversial things a leader can do yet only 48% of members think it was wrong.

When asked to choose from the last five leaders of the Party, that same group picked Brown as fave on 66%, followed by Miliband on 59%, then Starmer, then Corbyn and Blair came bottomth.  Which says something.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 28, 2020, 06:18:45 PM
It's fine. If he could disagree in such a way as to prove or even convincingly argue what I was saying fit that description, he'd have managed it.

I will do if you like.

I agree with the things you added in, it's just you insisting this was some intentional "untruth" by me was a incredibly paranoid and unecessary assumption.


TrenterPercenter

Quote from: NoSleep on November 28, 2020, 06:21:12 PM
Why have your replies to me recently always been a lecture about the meaning of words I fully understand and use daily?

Sorry this is beginning to come across as some issue you may have.  I'm not lecturing you at all and I don't recall doing this in the recent past, also your tone and question(s) haven't really seemed about getting to the bottom of this but i'll say i'm sorry if it came across as if I was as it was not my intention.

ZoyzaSorris

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on November 28, 2020, 06:18:57 PM
I understand this, I think this is down to replacement meaning different things in our two contexts.

I'm talking about pracitically replacing him......which means precipitating and winning a leadership election.  Precipitating that leadership election means the membership and the PLP have to be very unhappy with him and he has just done one of the most controversial things a leader can do yet only 48% of members think it was wrong.

I see you are for some reason seeing a poll of labour list members as somehow representative.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: ZoyzaSorris on November 28, 2020, 07:03:16 PM
I see you are for some reason seeing a poll of labour list members as somehow representative.

It's a poll of Labour members that are registered on Labour list.  It's not dangerous at all for us to consider that it may shed some light on what some members are thinking.

Labourlist has largely been quite supportive of Corbynism, has been breaking stories on Starmers bad behaviour and whose editor has recently been on Novara putting the boot into Starmer.

BlodwynPig

Quote from: Buelligan on November 28, 2020, 05:58:36 PM
I agree with all of that but do I trust him?  Not a bit.  He's got too much ego and not enough solidarity for my liking.

I trust you, Shoulders, Corbyn and that's about it. Which one has a chance to change Britain?

Pancreas is my horse.

BlodwynPig

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on November 28, 2020, 07:14:23 PM
It's a poll of Labour members that are registered on Labour list.  It's not dangerous at all for us to consider that it may shed some light on what some members are thinking.

Labourlist has largely been quite supportive of Corbynism, has been breaking stories on Starmers bad behaviour and whose editor has recently been on Novara putting the boot into Starmer.

You can see with the likes of Whittom and McDonnell that many have caved under intense pressure. Maybe some were Trojan horses. I would not trust any poll to reflect the humanity resting in the kernel of those polled. It is a poll representing cowardice within the party.

Buelligan

That same poll also showed that the people responding preferred Ed Miliband and Gordon Brown to Starmer as a leader.  What does that tell you?

BlodwynPig

Quote from: Buelligan on November 28, 2020, 07:32:16 PM
That same poll also showed that the people responding preferred Ed Miliband and Gordon Brown to Starmer as a leader.  What does that tell you?

I want polls to be hurled into deep space forever... this Century's Dear Deidre columns

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: BlodwynPig on November 28, 2020, 07:25:49 PM
You can see with the likes of Whittom and McDonnell that many have caved under intense pressure. Maybe some were Trojan horses. I would not trust any poll to reflect the humanity resting in the kernel of those polled. It is a poll representing cowardice within the party.

It's a poll it is just a bit of information, trends are what are important and as the chap from Momentum pointed out polling for Starmer, overall, has decreased.  It is just a shame more people (in this poll) didn't see suspending the whip as a bad thing to do.

Saw this pop up on reddit, fairly even-handed.

https://jewishcurrents.org/the-tragedy-of-jeremy-corbyn/

My biggest issue is that the author assumes Corbyn could have averted this somehow. I don't see how Labour adopting the IHRA definition would have made it all go away.

To my mind the defining characteristic of the antisemitism crisis in Labour is that the goalposts move regardless of what Corbyn does/did.

ZoyzaSorris

Yes, the only thing that could have worked to some extent was pointing out it was primarily being blown up for partisan reasons from the very start rather than giving it any credence, given the myriad of bad faith actors involved. I think this person being American isn't aware of the reality that there was nothing Corbyn could have done to appease the vast majority of his tormentors short of suicide (and then I'm sure they'd have carried on trying to posthumously expel him from the human race.)

BlodwynPig

Quote from: ZoyzaSorris on November 28, 2020, 08:05:46 PM
Yes, the only thing that could have worked to some extent was pointing out it was primarily being blown up for partisan reasons from the very start rather than giving it any credence, given the myriad of bad faith actors involved. I think this person being American isn't aware of the reality that there was nothing Corbyn could have done to appease the vast majority of his tormentors short of suicide (and then I'm sure they'd have carried on trying to posthumously expel him from the human race.)

His death most likely will lead to School history books teaching kids that he was on a par with Hitler and socialism was the scourge of the 21st Century.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quite right, posters above.

The right wing Jewish lobby will never ever stop and there are no concessions that will ever placate them. They are making Starmer's life a pain too. He will learn as well they want Labour trapped so they can barely move to criticise them without the next confected controversy.

Corbyn and McDonnell really screwed up on this one by choosing appeasement.

honeychile

In their partial defence, i think in the early days of the assault i might have tried the same route they did. Antisemitism on the left is real, and there were (and remain) enough pillocks you can easily seek out on social media and the odd CLP meeting to construct a superficial case for immediate action. Problem was, they were much later than i was in getting to the point of realising the whole assault was nothing to do with antisemitism. I get the impression McDonnell still isn't there, or is there but can't be fucked with the fight.

It's a shame Richard Burgon has little chance of securing a place in a leadership challenge as i think he's one of the few who's made of similar stuff to Corbyn. I remember during the hustings when asked about signing up to the BoD's pledges, while everyone else went along with them, there was Dawn Butler saying "I'm not going to sign them until i see what's in the EHRC report", and there was Burgon getting a huge round of applause when he flatly stated "Well, i haven't signed up to the BoD's pledges, and i won't be doing so."

Shoulders?-Stomach!

I think any robust defence from right wing Zionist attacks should have been accompanied by equally robust visible action and public statements.

We got some decent public statements but they failed to communicate that pressure groups and vicious individuals do not speak for all Jews and are bad faith actors.






king_tubby



Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Buelligan on November 28, 2020, 10:46:20 PM


I have no sense of style at all, but every time I've seen this man his trousers and footwear have clashed. If it's not chinos and sketchers or jeans and shoes it's jeans and horrid knackered running shoes.

Pink Gregory

Thing is, it would be endearing if it wasn't for his actions. 

If he would just own 'I'm a slightly awkward middle class man and that's fine, I don't need to justify myself' it'd do him a whole lot of good.  Again if he wasn't doing this shit, of course.

Buelligan

It's true.  His inner ugliness shines out, worse, when he's dressed like a human.  At best he comes across as someone's estranged dad, drummed out of the prison service (sorry icehouse) for abusing inmates and now trying to charm his children's friends into coming round to his to be subjected to something unspeakable.

I mean, would you go first, through those gates, even if it was to see some kittens?

BlodwynPig

It looks like he's wearing oversized blue felt moccasin slippers. The most heinous thing I've ever seen. But gives me strange melancholy feelings. Looks like the single moccasin I found at Big Sky in Montana.

Buelligan

Maybe it's one of those special giant slippers for the ancients.  Presented by a thoughtful constituent one Xmas and now he hippety-hops about in it when he visits the mean streets, thinking it makes him look human.  Could be.

Blue really is his colour.

lipsink

I don't get it. I mean I fucking hate the cunt but I don't see what's wrong with what he's wearing? Maybe I have no sense of style either.
How is he clashing? He's basically wearing blue.

chveik

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on November 28, 2020, 11:43:03 PM
I have no sense of style at all, but every time I've seen this man his trousers and footwear have clashed. If it's not chinos and sketchers or jeans and shoes it's jeans and horrid knackered running shoes.

seriously, who gives a shit.