Topic: Fuck dance, let's code

[touchingcloth]

Yeah, you’d assume the one thing the shithouse marketeers could get right would be not checking that the images they use are going to cause copyright issues for them.

[Johnny Yesno]

Wrong.

That also comes effortlessly to them.

Well, they do spend a lot of time practising, regardless of how effortless it is for them.

[Johnny Yesno]

I resent the idea that I might not be as passionate as a ballerina.

This is exactly the wrong meaning to take from my post.

[Sebastian Cobb]

This is exactly the wrong meaning to take from my post.

I wasn't expecting anyone to take that seriously. My post count / time I've been a member should be enough to give away I'm not as passionate as a ballerina.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Yeah, you’d assume the one thing the shithouse marketeers could get right would be not checking that the images they use are going to cause copyright issues for them.

I get the impression in this case it was uploaded to a site that meant the tories could freely use it?

[Johnny Yesno]

I wasn't expecting anyone to take that seriously. My post count / time I've been a member should be enough to give away I'm not as passionate as a ballerina.

Oh, sorry. Too much twitter will do that to a person.

[touchingcloth]

I get the impression in this case it was uploaded to a site that meant the tories could freely use it?

Yeah, my point was just that even useless marketers should know to source images that are properly licenced, as that's the very bare minimum of their job. If it wasn't from a free library they'd have plucked one from some paid place for pennies, so I never considered that the rights would be an issue for them.

[flotemysost]

Bit late to the conversation, but I used to work in IT and had absolutely zero training/background in that area - admittedly it was more of an analytical role than one requiring hard tech skills - but I only got that job because it was an internal sideways move and I basically lucked out (also, this was in 2013, not on the coat tails of a fucking pandemic).

The pitiful level of coding I can do (after three-odd years of training, paid for by my employer) is highly unlikely to land me another job in tech on its own merit, given there are people who are fucking fluent in this shit and just generally more numerically-minded than me (I failed my GCSE Maths, fwiw).

But sure, go ahead, tell people who've spent their entire adult life fucking toiling and sweating away in low-paid or unpaid roles to pursue a career in the arts that all they need to do is just learn cyber (honestly haven't heard that word since c. 1999) while you continue to hang draw and quarter any art, culture or community that's left in this fucking dump. Absolute vile cunts.

Oh and they're so thoughtful and with-it to use an image of a person of colour and choose an Islamic sounding name, guess they're not horrific racist twats after all. CUNTS

[PlanktonSideburns]

time to learn to cyber-code tanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM9O32cHxkg

[touchingcloth]

Fatima's next job could be in an open letter penned by professor Richard Dawkins.

[Zetetic]

If it wasn't for my knees, I wouldn't be up at 00:30 working out that IIS URL Authorization reacts to a mistyped username by very slowly shitting the bed.

[Blumf]

People still use IIS?

[Zetetic]

Not willingly, in my case.

[touchingcloth]

People still use IIS?

It’s more commonly called IISIL or Daiish these days.

[evilcommiedictator]

[Sebastian Cobb]

People still use IIS?

As I said, it was nothing to do with our application and we weren't aware of its existence as their IT team had put it in front of our app and its app-server without telling us. I think they were using it as a reverse proxy to do tls but not 100% sure, I know there are much better tools for the job.

[Paul Calf]

Snap. We learnt in Java and C#, but really only for the rudiments of how algorithms work without needing to get bogged down in garbage collection and whatnot. We did a bit of assembly on 6800, but again only to get the idea of machine language across. I was annoyed that my dissertation was enforced as a piece of software, because the course hadn’t taught us the methodologies in a way we could apply practically.

Java AND C#?

That seems like a waste of half a course. I'd have replaced one of them with a multi-paradigm language like Perl or Python.

[MojoJojo]

Nah, get some properly different paradigms in there with Prolog and Scheme. Everything else is just variants of C.

[Paul Calf]

Fuck it, it's a Comp Sci course...Lisp.

[Sebastian Cobb]

This was in 2005 onwards but I did mostly Java for general purpose teaching (data structures, algorithms, some jsp web stuff, some 3d graphics stuff), C for Operating System and Compiler type stuff and programming handyboards and then some Haskell and Prolog for functional programming and logic stuff which I can barely remember.

I can see why Python has replaced Java as there's far less boilerplate for a student to get confused over when trying to teach something; often it was a case in the beginning of 'ignore things outside of this method' as it was just a class with main in it.

[Paul Calf]

I mainly use Java for automated test suites at the moment and all I can think of is how it'd be much quicker and easier in a dynamic language like Ruby or Perl (or Groovy, which was really just Java-heads admitting that Ruby's syntactic sugar and low ceremony is better for most general-purpose applications).

[Sebastian Cobb]

I mainly use Java for automated test suites at the moment and all I can think of is how it'd be much quicker and easier in a dynamic language like Ruby or Perl (or Groovy, which was really just Java-heads admitting that Ruby's syntactic sugar and low ceremony is better for most general-purpose applications).

We use Groovy for our (Jenkins) deploy scripts and it does seem to add some powerful mapping capabilities you see in more dynamic languages. I think financial institutions littered with Java use Scala to do similar things with number crunching.

I went from being a Java developer of nearly 10 years to a place that used mostly PHP and Python written by people who knew what they were doing so it was very clean and succinct (rather than a shitshow where types are mutated all over the shop), it was like a breath of fresh air, as big old Java monoliths had so much boilerplate I was finding I was getting fed up before I'd added a line of code that actually did anything.

Writing tests in pure Java can be frustrating given how disposable tests can be.

There's someone here who is a Javascript zealot and thinks the solution is to use Javascript everywhere including in the backend as it's 'only one thing to learn', personally I think learning two things is easier than getting people to use an asynchronous language to perform potentially long single-thread operations but that's just me. I've seen some Node scripts and they looked like a fucking christmas tree with all the promises chained together.

[touchingcloth]

Java AND C#?

That seems like a waste of half a course. I'd have replaced one of them with a multi-paradigm language like Perl or Python.

I think Java was fairly widely used in universities in the early 2000s for one reason or another. C# seems reasonable wise as a choice because it’s been used as a production language in the places I’ve worked since.

But like I said the course wasn’t designed to turn out developers, so it was closer to a fifth of the course which was spent in those two languages, with about equal amount of time given to looking at by-then arcane languages (like relatively high level overviews if COBOL, Fortran, Prolog, Eiffel(!)), assembly, compilers, database stuff, maths. Wide and shallow rather than narrow and deep, kind of thing.

[Paul Calf]

But Java and C# are basically the same language. The only real difference is the backing of the .NET libraries that C# has.

[Paul Calf]

There's someone here who is a Javascript zealot and thinks the solution is to use Javascript everywhere including in the backend as it's 'only one thing to learn', personally I think learning two things is easier than getting people to use an asynchronous language to perform potentially long single-thread operations but that's just me. I've seen some Node scripts and they looked like a fucking christmas tree with all the promises chained together.

I hate Javascript, mainly because of dickheads like that. It's a language specified, designed and implemented in 10 fucking days and by fuck does it show. Keep it off the fucking server.

[Paul Calf]

I spend a large proportion of my time trying to stop developers implementing business logic in JS, then some twat comes along and wants to use it server-side.

[touchingcloth]

There's someone here who is a Javascript zealot and thinks the solution is to use Javascript everywhere including in the backend as it's 'only one thing to learn'

That's fucking mental. I've said in this thread that I'm not a coder, but I at least know enough of each major paradigm (I think) that I can sort of work out what code is doing if I ever do need to look at it. For me that's mainly when filing bug reports so that I can say to devs/QAs "looks like this line might be an issue" rather than just telling them something's fecked, and presumably your JS nut isn't in a bunker where they never have to interact with other people's Python and whatnot.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Yeah it's mad.

I've seen a school of thought that Javascript with all it's idiosyncrasies is now viewed as an 'assembly language' of the web and that people should be using frameworks on top of it to write (transpile) to pure JS. But the frameworks seem to change week-by-week. The fundamentals for development I learned years ago and are supplemented by changes in languages that I typically pick up quite quickly on top. I'd go mad being a front-end developer.

And what good is an 'assembly language' that still can't compare objects properly. Fucksake.

[touchingcloth]

I've seen a school of thought that Javascript with all it's idiosyncrasies is now viewed as an 'assembly language' of the web and that people should be using frameworks on top of it to write (transpile) to pure JS. But the frameworks seem to change week-by-week.

Ah, so a bit like using a WYSIWIG editor to generate the HTML for you? That would certainly explain the batshitness of some JS I've seen out there.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Ah, so a bit like using a WYSIWIG editor to generate the HTML for you? That would certainly explain the batshitness of some JS I've seen out there.

More like how PRO*C is just C with some inbuilt hooks to make querying an Oracle database immediately easy, the PRO*C precompiler spits out C that is a mixture of your code and the code to query the DB which is then compiled by an actual C compiler (like gcc). Of course for responsiveness or just to stop people copying it, the JS you see on a webpage has often been minified to remove whitespace or intentionally ran through an obfuscation tool to stop people copying it or being able to subvert front-end logic with browser extensions.

A common one is Microsoft's Typescript which can add strong-typing to JS.