Have you ever tried to reason with a Covidiot?

[Fambo Number Mive]

I try to debate with them on my local newspaper's comments section - I live in a city at the highest alert level but the comments section is full of Covidiots twisting logic to try and play down how dangerous Coronavirus is. You also get the Tory supporters shouting down any criticism of the government on Twitter.

Has anyone ever tried to reason with a Covidiot or a covid denier or are they as blinkered as antivaxxers? Something I find interesting is how they won't trust anything in the mainstream media but then site www.hereisaconspiracyblogwrittenbyonepersonfullofbullshit.blogspot.com

[ASFTSN]

I try to debate with them on my local newspaper's comments section

Desolation.

I haven't had the chance yet, myself - mainly due to my self imposed hermitage over the last 7 months. I'd probably do what I do with all 'debates' i.e. become increasingly livid, exasperated and upset at the other person's obstinance and then look like an absolute tit, so probably best for the greater good that I don't.

[Fr.Bigley]

Tried to explain to a loud woman on the train that sitting directly opposite me while pulling her mask down to talk to her equally as stupid fucking friend on the phone, that blowing hot air in my face might not be the best idea considering. She got up and moved somewhere else then started yabbering on about how much of a prick I was on the phone after. Fair enough. Most of the time I just don't have the energy to care and generally don't give a fuck about anything anyway.

[frajer]

Tried to explain to a loud woman on the train that sitting directly opposite me while pulling her mask down to talk to her equally as stupid fucking friend on the phone, that blowing hot air in my face might not be the best idea considering. She got up and moved somewhere else then started yabbering on about how much of a prick I was on the phone after. Fair enough. Most of the time I just don't have the energy to care and generally don't give a fuck about anything anyway.

Good for you for trying. I don't think I'd be so rational.

It's a difficult issue to debate because the non-mask wearer is already showing people they're dangerously irresponsible, or a selfish cunt, or both. But then I'm sure they think I'm an over-reactionary scaredy-twat who should get a grip or something.

I'm so massively grateful I can commute by bike and haven't had to use public transport since lockdown. I'd be off my bloody nut by now.

[Dog Botherer]

mother in law's boyfriend is in full FOX News "it's just the flu" cunt mode. one of their best friends just died from it last night, and two more have it. he's holding firm though, don't really know what else can convince him other than catching it and getting cunted directly into a grave as a result.

[Wanking Monk of Kefalonia]

If you want to win over your opponents you could start by not calling them 'covidiots' and 'selfish cunts'.

It's a difficult issue to debate because the non-mask wearer is already showing people they're dangerously irresponsible, or a selfish cunt, or both. But then I'm sure they think I'm an over-reactionary scaredy-twat who should get a grip or something.

Mask have been shown to be ineffective in Randomized Control Trials in preventing the spread of flu, and even if they did slow down the spread to some marginal extent, what would be the point? Spread of the virus throughout the population is an inevitability and the NHS isn't at risk of being overwhelmed at this stage. It's just something we've got to learn to live with. And I'm sure that masks have a net negative effect on health when factors like reduced oxygen intake and bacterial accumulation are taken into account.

I don't see how the government's attempts to 'defeat' the virus are in any way justified considering they're plainly causing a tremendous amount of harm, both to health and economically, and show no signs of having actually achieved a thing. If this level of hysteria was warranted then people in Sweden - where hardly any of these measures have been implemented - would be dropping dead in the street, but it turns out they're doing perfectly fine and aren't living in a depressing dystopia of masks, 'Covid Marshals' and social isolation.

For the record I'm not a 'Covid denier' or 'anti vax', or anything like that. I just think the risk from the virus has been exaggerated, and the attempts to control it have been wildly disproportionate, harmful and ineffective.

[Cuellar]

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

the attempts to control it have been wildly disproportionate, harmful and ineffective.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

The only bit where growth in cases plateaued and deaths dramatically reduced is the point where the most countries on the globe were in lockdown and international flights were at their lowest. So they were effective on those measures.

Whether you think measures have been disproportionate is one thing (wait til you see what happens when a nations health service collapses before commenting on harm), but all ineffective measures have been related to being overly lax, attempts to economically co-exist with the virus. Unclear communication and dud diluted/localised restrictions have totally failed. Too many people with stuff to lose are refusing to accept reality.

the NHS isn't at risk of being overwhelmed at this stage. It's just something we've got to learn to live with

The question is not whether it is but whether it will be. Look at Spain, already in 200+ daily covid deaths territory. This is even before the winter. People whose job it is to warn the government and the public about the strain on the health service are warning us.

And you talk about harm? You are happy to see mass graves dug, NHS workers being totalled, mass walkouts and strikes, patients left uncared for, unsanitary conditions, surgery performed by workers on the brink of a mental breakdown. Pile ups in corridors, etc

People who lecture others about different types of 'harm' caused by lockdown but demand we accept the singular significant harm in front of them, are not posting in good faith but to tendentiously push a point of view.

I assume when a family member of yours gets it you will be sending an e-card to your loved one with the message

'You will just have to learn to live with it'

[jobotic]

There's a tsumani out at sea but the water's quite nice here on the beach. Why do you want to ruin these people's sunbathing?

[Zetetic]

patients left uncared for, unsanitary conditions, surgery performed by workers on the brink of a mental breakdown

Why change anything now?

[chveik]

who's the covidiot now?

[Theremin]

Sweden's just claimed the title of 'Country with the Highest Recorded Death Rate', so things are hardly perfectly fine there. Business is fucked too, even without furlough etc. You still have businesses having to close because of sick staff, or staff that have to shield, and even without - there's a lot of Bar/Shop clients who aren't so keen on going on out now that there's a chance they might kill a vulnerable family member by picking something up.

I get why you might be sceptical, as info has generally been very badly disseminated by the media - and various governmental and private players have a clear interest in obscuring what's accurate.

It's just something we've got to learn to live with.

Yeah, correct. And mask-wearing and distancing are part of learning to live with this. Sucks - definitely - but there it is.

If it's wet, you put on wellies. If it's hot, you put on sunscreen. If there's a pandemic that the government has totally fucked up containing - you put on a mask and wash your hands.

Mask have been shown to be ineffective in Randomized Control Trials in preventing the spread of flu, and even if they did slow down the spread to some marginal extent, what would be the point?

That first point is true, but Covid-19 isn't a Flu virus - so transmission studies of flu viruses won't really help you assess the risk here.

It's from the SARS family, which is a different kettle of putrid, deadly fish.

SARS viruses work a bit differently, often weakening your immune system so something else can finish you off - a bit like AIDS, or other immune-system disorders.

This is the reason:

a) Older and Already-Sick people have been most of the victims in the initial wave.

b) Places like the USA (and also the UK) with high levels of obesity and poor public health get worse hit.

c) Even young people can come away from a bout of Covid with organ damage - heart and lung seems pretty common from what I've read.

My partner's someone from the last category.

She's 31, super-fit, but copped a dose of Covid back in March. Wasn't so bad on it's own, but made her weak enough to succumb to a seperate viral infection that's permanently deafened her on one side.

[Theremin]

It IS dangerous, AND it sucks, AND people shouldn't abuse you personally.

All these are true at the same time.

But you can see why tempers would be high, right? We're in a bizarre situation where personal thoughtlessness can lead to someone's family members dying or getting maimed. Surreal as fuck, but here we are.

[bgmnts]

Everyone in this thread can now answer Yes to the thread title.

[Urinal Cake]

No but I've heard stories. It's always shifting goalposts and 'do your research and you'll see I'm right.'

[Fr.Bigley]

Quite odd that folk who are insistent on "doing their research" aren't that forthcoming with their own citation of sources.

[finnquark]

Increasingly doing this with students, in conversations which also take in QAnon, Pizzagate, etc. 10 minutes later they want to know why they scored poorly when it comes to analysing the utility of sources.

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

I have a few acquaintances who aren't full Covidiot but will say things like "sure the WHO are after saying masks don't do anything". I say "oh, really? Where did you hear that? I'm just looking on their website here and they're still advising people to wear masks." Because I don't want to fall out with people I have to work with but I also don't want to let misinformation go unchallenged.

[Urinal Cake]

There are some mobile antennas near where I live so of course some people thought 5G was spreading Covid-19. So instead of convincing them that 5G does not cause Covid, an retired engineer matter-of-factly just pointed out that they were 4G antennas(which they were). I think there's some sort of lesson in that.

[BlodwynPig]

If you want to win over your opponents you could start by not calling them 'covidiots' and 'selfish cunts'.

Mask have been shown to be ineffective in Randomized Control Trials in preventing the spread of flu, and even if they did slow down the spread to some marginal extent, what would be the point? Spread of the virus throughout the population is an inevitability and the NHS isn't at risk of being overwhelmed at this stage. It's just something we've got to learn to live with. And I'm sure that masks have a net negative effect on health when factors like reduced oxygen intake and bacterial accumulation are taken into account.

I don't see how the government's attempts to 'defeat' the virus are in any way justified considering they're plainly causing a tremendous amount of harm, both to health and economically, and show no signs of having actually achieved a thing. If this level of hysteria was warranted then people in Sweden - where hardly any of these measures have been implemented - would be dropping dead in the street, but it turns out they're doing perfectly fine and aren't living in a depressing dystopia of masks, 'Covid Marshals' and social isolation.

For the record I'm not a 'Covid denier' or 'anti vax', or anything like that. I just think the risk from the virus has been exaggerated, and the attempts to control it have been wildly disproportionate, harmful and ineffective.

King Covidiot. A dangerous deluded twit to boot

[Zetetic]

There's something to be said for the SAGE approach of keeping your mouth shut and cashing the paychecks. Maybe some anonymous remarks to The Guardian if you're feeling particularly principled.

[Dex Sawash]

www.hereisaconspiracyblogwrittenbyonepersonfullofbullshit.blogspot.com

Why's that then?

[evilcommiedictator]

Had a friend of mine from High School who I haven't talked to in about 11 years contact me recently, we are both political and he's very Conservative Christian, we can talk about these things. Turns out he's been on YouTubes a lot, and he's using a lot of the right-wing American talking points, like complaining about Fauci, even though we're in Australia.

He had a thing where his firstborn had a narrowing of his urethra/bladder connector, and a whole bunch of tests were done and the kid was probed a lot, which I think got into his head, and now 8 years later, he's of the opinion that Big Pharma wants us to do all these tests and make money from us. Turns out the kid didn't have any major issues and there wasn't a problem to be fixed surgically. I've suggested he talk to a GP about what exactly the problems would be if they didn't do that (you know, the whole point of preventative medicine). This then leads into Victoria, Australia's response to the virus, the lockdown, and now he's a big fan of Libertarian economy loving, and not worried about old people (who would have died anyway). I kinda pointed out this should be against his own views. He of course mentions Sweden (and not America), and is happy to admit that he knows that Bill Gates is not going to use a vaccine to mind control us (because he's smart, right), but still insists that Hydrocloxiquine works, but I haven't spoken to him after Trumpf not using it, so we'll see.

I read online that a good approach is to be patient, reinforce their curiosity and get them to expand on these things, to point out the logical fallacies (like for example, if that drug worked, Brazil, USA and The Phillipines would have all these people surviving and talking about it, and less and less deaths), not to abuse them, but fuck me it's tedious.

He got me to debunk the recent Antivax film that got kicked out of Tribecca, it's so entirely silly and emotive, his response to me was good progress but I'm not sure if he's humouring me though!

He's also claiming people have been illegally arrested in the state, which I did push him on, because that's easily (a) taken from the idiot sovereign citizens themselves, and (b) clearly wrong, but we'll see

[Fambo Number Mive]

If you want to win over your opponents you could start by not calling them 'covidiots' and 'selfish cunts'.

Mask have been shown to be ineffective in Randomized Control Trials in preventing the spread of flu, and even if they did slow down the spread to some marginal extent, what would be the point? Spread of the virus throughout the population is an inevitability and the NHS isn't at risk of being overwhelmed at this stage. It's just something we've got to learn to live with. And I'm sure that masks have a net negative effect on health when factors like reduced oxygen intake and bacterial accumulation are taken into account.

I don't see how the government's attempts to 'defeat' the virus are in any way justified considering they're plainly causing a tremendous amount of harm, both to health and economically, and show no signs of having actually achieved a thing. If this level of hysteria was warranted then people in Sweden - where hardly any of these measures have been implemented - would be dropping dead in the street, but it turns out they're doing perfectly fine and aren't living in a depressing dystopia of masks, 'Covid Marshals' and social isolation.

For the record I'm not a 'Covid denier' or 'anti vax', or anything like that. I just think the risk from the virus has been exaggerated, and the attempts to control it have been wildly disproportionate, harmful and ineffective.

Sweden is a much bigger country with a smaller population. People don't live so densely as in the UK or other countries. It also banned big gatherings early on in the pandemic and encouraged social distancing. The death rate in Sweden is still higher than the European average, 573 per million, not that far off the UK at 640 per million. Compare Germany (116 per million) or Denmark (115 per million) for example.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/12/briefing/coronavirus-los-angeles-lakers-nobel-in-economics-your-monday-briefing.html

[BlodwynPig]

There's something to be said for the SAGE approach of keeping your mouth shut and cashing the paychecks. Maybe some anonymous remarks to The Guardian if you're feeling particularly principled.

They delete official sensitive e-mails after 24 hours from my personal machine

[Dr Rock]

If this level of hysteria was warranted then people in Sweden - where hardly any of these measures have been implemented - would be dropping dead in the street, but it turns out they're doing perfectly fine

Now, I'll ask this just once - are Sweden doing 'perfectly fine'?

[frajer]

Now, I'll ask this just once - are Sweden doing 'perfectly fine'?

Yeah it's this casual spreading of bullshit that basically proves why you can't argue with Covidiots. The idea that Sweden's doing 'perfectly fine' could be disproved with 10 mins online research, but for whatever reason this research isn't done.

It's a lovely idea that Sweden has somehow managed to carry on as normal with no more or less deaths than other countries but it's pure fantasy. There have been some restrictions, and more importantly it's been an absolute massacre compared to its Nordic neighbours - tons of deaths upfront and cases on the rise again now anyway.

[druss]

Sweden isn't doing perfectly fine. Covid hasn't been blown out of all proportion. But there's definitely a question over whether the impact of lockdown measures on the economy and the increase of mental health issues and suicides is the lesser of two evils. A friend of mine is a doctor who has been working on the front line all year and she thinks the knock on effect of lockdown measures is worse than if we'd gone for the Sweden model.

I'm not sure where I stand, probably leaning towards her way of thinking but I haven't had any loved ones die of Covid and if it turns out that lockdown has stopped my Mum from dying then I'm glad it's the way we went (although we should have done it much earlier if it was always going to happen of course).

It's definitely more complicated than "lockdown=good, anyone who disagrees=covidiot" though.

[buttgammon]

We've had a wave of the "oh but Sweden" bullshit here because of same libertarian dickhead who was evidently given a platform on national radio and used it to say we'd be better off letting the virus run rampant "like in Sweden". Aside from the fact that that's not what they've done, everything I've heard about Sweden suggests they're not doing that well at all, and that's with a better healthcare system than many other European countries. But you can prove anything with facts.

[Fambo Number Mive]

Why are there so many "stop criticising the government" comments in the BBC comments section? Is it just that Tory supporters have more time to post on there? It seems odd that so many people are feeling so defensive of the government.