Author Topic: McCartney III  (Read 3186 times)

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Re: McCartney III
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2020, 02:21:03 AM »
So I think i'm going to go out on a limb and say it was always Mother Mary but Brother Malcolm was a sort of in-joke that he liked to leave in for certain takes that weren't going to matter.  Am I reaching.....?

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Re: McCartney III
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2020, 02:23:12 AM »
The story about blackbird being inspired by the black power movement sounded like retrospective made up bollocks but there's recording of him telling donovan that at the time so who the fuck knows, monsiour le thumbsaloft is a weird fuckin guy for sure anyroad up/


Yeah I thought the same thing at the time re Blackbird. Sounded like right bollocks. But no! Also that thing about how the Beatles refused to play segregated audiences. I thought, yeah right, I'm sure that was the aim but.....

But no. There's footage of them saying at the time in that Ron Howard doc.

Re: McCartney III
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2020, 02:25:18 AM »
The other one is where he dreamt up Yesterday.. he did say early on it might be something he remembered off one of his dad's old jazz recaords.. but he couldn't identify it or anyone he played it for.. but it was Frankie Layne's cover of Nat King Cole's Answer Me. I know his early lyrics were about Scrambled Eggs..

You were mine yesterday
I believed that love was here to stay
Won't you tell me where I've gone astray
Please answer me, my love


It's the same orchestration and time signature.. even the words from the second verse echo his revised ones.. the words, the rhyming scheme.. I can believe he remembered it in a dream and tried to track it down.. it's not the same song. He remembered it and added to it, but it still has an obvious origin.




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Re: McCartney III
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2020, 02:26:21 AM »


I was just reading bits of Lewisohns "Tune Up" this evening again, I honestly can't see the remaining volumes he has planned seeing the light of day. The level of detail is fucking ridiculous.

Can't tell you how unbothered I am about hearing about George's great grandparents and Ringo's primary school head teacher etc etc etc. So haven't bothered with the first one. If another one comes out I'll get it, but like you, I can't see how it ever will, according to those groundrules anyway. Particularly as George's estate are unhappy with him already.

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Re: McCartney III
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2020, 02:28:41 AM »
The other one is where he dreampt up Yesterday.. he did say early on it might be something he remembered off one of his dad's old jazz recaords.. but he couldn't identify it or anyone he played it for.. but it was Frankie Layne's cover of Nat King Cole's Answer Me. I know his early lyrics were about Scrambled Eggs..

You were mine yesterday
I believed that love was here to stay
Won't you tell me where I've gone astray
Please answer me, my love


It's the same orchestration and time signature.. even the words from the second verse echo his revised ones.. the words, the rhyming scheme.. I can believe he remembered it in a dream and tried to track it down.. it's not the same song. He remembered it and added to it, but it still has an obvious origin.

You think he early on realised what it was, but carried on anyway?

Re: McCartney III
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2020, 02:31:13 AM »
You think he early on realised what it was, but carried on anyway?

Nope, his constant story has been.. it's a melody I thought I heard in my childhood.. shopped it round everyone, nobody recocognised it so I put it as mine. That's every version he's ever told, never heard him mention Frankie Layne.. though that's clearly what he based it on. To be fair I wouldn't sue over that, it's different enough to be an original song, thank fuck for dreamining.

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Re: McCartney III
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2020, 02:37:27 AM »
Nope, his constant story has been.. it's a melody I thought I heard in my childhood.. shopped it round everyone, nobody recocognised it so I put it as mine. That's every version he's ever told, never heard him mention Frankie Layne.. though that's clearly what he based it on. To be fair I wouldn't sue over that, it's different enough to be an original song, thank fuck for dreamining.

And the more he says these things the more it becomes the established fact. I'm a big Beatles fan but I'd never heard this version before. I'm worried this new Let it Be film is the next stage in pretending the Beatles were always together and always friends etc etc. Although, again, if you listen to the tapes there IS loads of friendly laughter and jokes etc. It wasn't all George being passive-aggressive while Paul plays his bass and whispers. The story isn't a neat fit either way.

Re: McCartney III
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2020, 02:41:20 AM »
And the more he says these things the more it becomes the established fact. I'm a big Beatles fan but I'd never heard this version before. I'm worried this new Let it Be film is the next stage in pretending the Beatles were always together and always friends etc etc. Although, again, if you listen to the tapes there IS loads of friendly laughter and jokes etc. It wasn't all George being passive-aggressive while Paul plays his bass and whispers. The story isn't a neat fit either way.

If you listen to enough Beatles podcasts a lot of spells are broken. For example, George Martin didn't sign up the Beatles, they were already signed to EMI when he met them, it's not because he got on with their humour etc, he was having an affair with his secretary and took her to some public event and the head of EMI was aghast about it, so when he got back he got given some shitheap group to produce as punishment, they'd already signed them because they'd written a few original tunes  they wanted to give to some of their other stabled groups. Can you guess who the shitheap group was?

The Beatles themselves didn't even know this, but the Beatles and Martin all thought this was the story, they've all repeated it ad nauseam, then Mark Lewisohn found this in the papers he was going through and showed it George Harrison and he was aghast.

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Re: McCartney III
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2020, 02:50:51 AM »
Wait, so what if George Martin had 'rejected' them then? If he thought that was within his power to do? Martin thought it was an audition but it wasn't? So Brian knew the real story presumably?

Re: McCartney III
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2020, 02:56:09 AM »
Wait, so what if George Martin had 'rejected' them then? If he thought that was within his power to do? Martin thought it was an audition but it wasn't? So Brian knew the real story presumably?

No, if he rejected them he'd be given the boot, at the time he was actually looking to start his own production company.. lookup Martin's previous productions, they always report him as a 'comedy' producer but he did lots of experimental music and bands before the Beatles, even the BBC's famous Theme One. Lots of early experimental singles had his hand in them. The Beatles were nothing but a boring load of wank for him, until he obviously turned his situation around.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 03:10:27 AM by Hand Solo »

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Re: McCartney III
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2020, 03:09:07 AM »
No, lookup Martin's previous productions, they always report him as a 'comedy' producer but he did lots of experimental music and bands before the Beatles, even the BBC's famous Theme One. Lots of early experimental singles had his hand in them. The Beatles were nothing but a boring load of wank for him, until he obviously turned his situation around.

GEORGE DIDN'T LIKE HIS TIE THOUGH!

Re: McCartney III
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2020, 03:12:49 AM »
GEORGE DIDN'T LIKE HIS TIE THOUGH!

That probably did happen. I don't know if they knew they were already signed though, presumably Epstein and Martin knew? They had to?

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Re: McCartney III
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2020, 03:19:11 AM »
That probably did happen. I don't know if they knew they were already signed though, presumably Epstein and Martin knew? They had to?

They'd have to otherwise it wouldn't make sense. And the whole affair thing is why GM was happy to go along with the story. I wonder how much info like this we lost when Epstein died? Although Neil didn't give much away. Proper company man.

Re: McCartney III
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2020, 03:26:52 AM »
I can imagine Epstein not telling them so they'd be on their best behaviour.. aside from George's Tie affrontage.. but also Martin wouldn't talk about it for obvious reasons.. "Yes, well when the Beatles turned up I'd been fucking my secretary.."

Re: McCartney III
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2020, 03:55:37 AM »
The story about blackbird being inspired by the black power movement sounded like retrospective made up bollocks but there's recording of him telling donovan that at the time so who the fuck knows, monsiour le thumbsaloft is a weird fuckin guy for sure anyroad up/

Is there a link for that? i've not heard it, and Donovan always recounts any old shit he had to do with the Beatles..
only thumbickingwise.

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Re: McCartney III
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2020, 09:51:00 AM »
So I think i'm going to go out on a limb and say it was always Mother Mary but Brother Malcolm was a sort of in-joke that he liked to leave in for certain takes that weren't going to matter.  Am I reaching.....?

This is my read. They did stuff like this all the time - silly word substitutions and musical in-jokes. I dont think Macca is as much of a history rewriter as a lot of people think - he's just been asked the same questions so many times over 50 years that he's retreated into certain 'safe' anecdotes which have ossified into legend. Some of which are very obviously cherrypicked to defend/preserve his legacy/talent.

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Re: McCartney III
« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2020, 10:21:49 AM »


I was just reading bits of Lewisohns "Tune Up" this evening again, I honestly can't see the remaining volumes he has planned seeing the light of day. The level of detail is fucking ridiculous.

I’ve nearly finished it (currently at Nov 1962) and tbh I can’t wait to get to the end cos the level of detail is indeed ridiculous, and fucking exhausting too.

Re: McCartney III
« Reply #47 on: October 18, 2020, 10:33:14 AM »
Coming Up is obviously a banger, but McCartney II was mostly dreadful.
Not sure why he'd want to make it a trilogy.

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Re: McCartney III
« Reply #48 on: October 18, 2020, 11:05:06 AM »
I’ve nearly finished it (currently at Nov 1962) and tbh I can’t wait to get to the end cos the level of detail is indeed ridiculous, and fucking exhausting too.
Yeah, I do appreciate the necessity of somebody going into that level of detail for the historical record, but I find myself skipping over 10 pages at a time.

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Re: McCartney III
« Reply #49 on: October 18, 2020, 11:42:32 AM »
It’s a reference book, really, isn’t it? Cover to cover is a right slog.

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Re: McCartney III
« Reply #50 on: October 18, 2020, 11:57:54 AM »
So I think i'm going to go out on a limb and say it was always Mother Mary but Brother Malcolm was a sort of in-joke that he liked to leave in for certain takes that weren't going to matter.  Am I reaching.....?

During the Let It Be sessions[1] there were a bunch of silly substitutions by Macca and other Beatles.  Either just clowning around ("Desmond has a sparrow in his parking lot"), or sometimes as a placeholder because the final lyric hasn't been written yet ("Something in the way she moves, Attracts me like a pomegranate").

Is there a link for that? i've not heard it, and Donovan always recounts any old shit he had to do with the Beatles..
only thumbickingwise.

There's a brief bit of talk about it here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VrcsjDUfGw&t=3m55s
 1. There's something like 100 hours available and it's fascinating and boring in equal measures.

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Re: McCartney III
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2020, 03:06:46 PM »
It’s a reference book, really, isn’t it? Cover to cover is a right slog.

No, no. It immerses you in their world. It's incredible. Best rock book ever.

SpiderChrist

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Re: McCartney III
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2020, 04:42:20 PM »
No, no. It immerses you in their world. It's incredible. Best rock book ever.

Right, OK. I found it a slog.

Re: McCartney III
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2020, 05:00:12 PM »
No, McCartney literally had a dream where Mal Evans came to him and said "Let it be," he talked about it at the time, then slowly the song changed to Mother Mary and he came to the conclusion it was about his mother then retroactively changed the story of how the song came to him to his mother appearing in the dream. Maybe he forgot over time but it's all there on the tapes.

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Re: McCartney III
« Reply #54 on: October 19, 2020, 03:46:18 AM »
No, McCartney literally had a dream where Mal Evans came to him and said "Let it be," he talked about it at the time, then slowly the song changed to Mother Mary and he came to the conclusion it was about his mother then retroactively changed the story of how the song came to him to his mother appearing in the dream. Maybe he forgot over time but it's all there on the tapes.

The dream was actually about Big Mal? Fucking hell. Dryest dream ever that.

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Re: McCartney III
« Reply #55 on: October 19, 2020, 04:22:50 AM »
Right, OK. I found it a slog.
George complains about Yoko snaffling his biscuits during the white album sessions, Lewisohn's like "McVitie & Price, Ltd., established in 1830 on Rose Street in Edinburgh, Scotland, moved to various sites in the city before completing the St. Andrews Biscuit Works factory on Robertson Avenue in the Gorgie district in 1888...."

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Re: McCartney III
« Reply #56 on: October 19, 2020, 04:52:41 AM »
George complains about Yoko snaffling his biscuits during the white album sessions, Lewisohn's like "McVitie & Price, Ltd., established in 1830 on Rose Street in Edinburgh, Scotland, moved to various sites in the city before completing the St. Andrews Biscuit Works factory on Robertson Avenue in the Gorgie district in 1888...."

The audiobook is narrated by Clive Mantle from Casualty! 45 hours of Clive Mantle from Casualty discussing needlessly specific postwar Liverpool minutiae.

Re: McCartney III
« Reply #57 on: October 19, 2020, 06:38:11 AM »
During the Let It Be sessions[1] there were a bunch of silly substitutions by Macca and other Beatles.  Either just clowning around ("Desmond has a sparrow in his parking lot"), or sometimes as a placeholder because the final lyric hasn't been written yet ("Something in the way she moves, Attracts me like a pomegranate").
 1. There's something like 100 hours available and it's fascinating and boring in equal measures.

I remember McCartney once recounting that, while larking about in the studio, they once sang a version of Get Back addressing Asians in Britain and saying 'get back to where you once belonged'!

SpiderChrist

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Re: McCartney III
« Reply #58 on: October 19, 2020, 07:04:55 AM »
I remember McCartney once recounting that, while larking about in the studio, they once sang a version of Get Back addressing Asians in Britain and saying 'get back to where you once belonged'!

https://youtu.be/Q1V5SsOwvx4

Re: McCartney III
« Reply #59 on: October 19, 2020, 02:46:34 PM »
https://theymaybeparted.com/tag/brother-malcolm/

Fascinating stuff.

And this version from the "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" session https://youtu.be/bIw3mLChTSo If they'd done it like that I would love that song. As it is...meh.

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