A L ((I)) E N S

[soaking wet, mate]

I realise it's 2020 and in a long-running movie subforum you should probably dig a bit deeper than fairly mainstream acknowledged classics (that possibly already have several dedicated threads) but jesus I had a moment watching Aliens on blu-ray tonight. Dang near perfect film that for 99% of the time withstood intense  visual scrutiny*.

Some plothole stuff started coming back to me like the timeline for young Burke originally approving the colony etc. but, y'know, who cares, doesn't detract from the greatness.

A CGI queen alien? Imagine how shit that would be.

A male hero? Forget it - Sigourney goes places no man on earth!** could ever go. Effortlessly flitting between bonding with a kid, flirting with a dude, taking down a supposed hard-ass marine lieutenant, taking down a supposed hard-ass corporate dickwad, wrestling an almost Giger-esque end-of-level (and sorry fellas, female) boss.

Another thing struck me - it was made well over 30 years ago and has been massively influential on so many other movies but, as far as I know, has never been bettered by any comparable big budget sci-fi/action/thriller/horror film before or since (Alien being left out of this, as it's not quite an action movie). This is on a planet of whatever billion people, making thousands of movies every year. That's fucking mad/depressing - but really glad it exists. Of any of the usual big-trousered suspects that I'm aware of e.g. Matrix, Marvel, More Modern Star Trek Wars - nothing comes close.

Again sorry that I'm making absolutely no new observations here but just, wow, what a MOVING PICTURE it is. Will totally rewatch the prequel ("Alien") soon. Shame they never made any more followup movies after Aliens***...







*Couldn't help the heightened awareness - the extra clarity was just really immersive and despite looking for - and expecting - faults that would ruin the experience, there were almost none****

**or in this case, LV-426

***not strictly true - in 1988 a semi-unofficial entry into the Alien cinematic universe appeared in the more light-hearted Earth Girls Are Easy

****ok well maybe the jittery flailing queen after being SPOILERED out of the airlock looked a bit silly. Although at least it didn't look like someone in a suit like the similar scene in Alien

[greenman]

The film that divides opinion most on CaB it seems.

It can see some of the criticism I spose in terms of it being a broader film than Alien in terms of character/theme and looks wise I do think isn't not in the same league and indeed not as good as Camerons own Terminators but taking it for what it is yeah its still a classic piece of action for me.

Its a good point about the range Weaver covers in this film and honestly I'v often felt female leads are often preferable in genre cinema for that reason. Your dealing with films that often have to work in emotional shorthand and I think you could argue audiences will tend to accept a wider range of emotion from women without as much setup. Something like Fury Road or Rogue One recently I think both exploit that very well to.

[Hand Solo]

Alien 3 is better, if you're a pretentious cunt.

[Replies From View]

The film that divides opinion most on CaB it seems.

actually it is a movie

[madhair60]

Watched this first time during first lockdown, thought it was absolutely superb. Alien 3, conversely, was dog shit. Cheers.

[sevendaughters]

great film. no one fires a gun for an hour and when they do, they're useless. the space marines all seem like meatheads from a generic action film if you're watching with your cursory head on but actually there's a palpable affection and sensitivity. Cameron was great at oppressive tech atmospheres up until he decided to throw it away making boats crash. there's no point in sequels merely being formal revists of the first film and a second run through the slasher in space would have been diminishing returns. never quite sure why the queen doesn't just liquefy Ripley in the nest but whatever.

[Catalogue Trousers]

Alien 3 is better, if you're a pretentious cunt you recognise a good film when you see one.

FTFY

[madhair60]

Alien 3 is a great litmus test for who gets to pick the film, ever. Did you like Alien 3? Yeah thought it was really good. Right, you never get to pick, sit down.

[BeardFaceMan]

A question for people who like Alien but don't like Aliens - is it because you don't like Aliens as a film on its own, or is it because it's not what you wanted/expected after Alien and being a fan of that film? Would you like the film more if it wasn't part of the Alien franchise, or if it was the first film in the franchise and didnt have a different style of film come before it?

[ZoyzaSorris]

i don't think I'm being controversial by saying that Aliens is hands-down the best film ever made by some distance and alien 3 should be deleted from history, along with anyone who claims to have enjoyed it.

[sevendaughters]

Resurrection is the one that should be shot from the mind cannon. 3 is light failure but has some alright bits. Like that Ripley becomes the martyred Jesus of the Church of the British Space Rapist.

[Kelvin]

A question for people who like Alien but don't like Aliens - is it because you don't like Aliens as a film on its own, or is it because it's not what you wanted/expected after Alien and being a fan of that film? Would you like the film more if it wasn't part of the Alien franchise, or if it was the first film in the franchise and didnt have a different style of film come before it?

I do like Aliens, but my problems with the film definitely stems from it's role in the series. In particular, I dislike how they neuter the Aliens to make them just a mindless horde, throwing themselves at the turrets like Zapp Brannigan's finest hour. It's not a bad film, by any stretch, I can watch it if it's on. But as a sequel to Aliens, I prefer the ugly nihilism of 3.   

[Johnny Textface]

Did they digitally wipe away the grain for the bluray release? Please say they didn't.

[Shit Good Nose]

I do like Aliens, but my problems with the film definitely stems from it's role in the series. In particular, I dislike how they neuter the Aliens to make them just a mindless horde, throwing themselves at the turrets like Zapp Brannigan's finest hour. It's not a bad film, by any stretch, I can watch it if it's on. But as a sequel to Aliens, I prefer the ugly nihilism of 3.

I agree with almost all of that, however I disagree about the xenos being made a mindless horde - it's quite the opposite I think, as Aliens introduces the fact that they are intelligent and even have some reasoning capability (purposely attacking in numbers and then disappearing once the bullets run out, attacking from above, and the queen waving away her guards when Ripley threatens the eggs etc) [which is the one thing that Resurrection also has in its favour and runs with that thinking], whilst in Alien the xeno is all about feeding and survival.  It's one of the things I like about the film, along with the effects and model work.

Otherwise, like you, I prefer 3's "ugly nihilism", which is a spot-on description.  I also think it has deeper and more interesting ideas and themes.

Aliens is, I think (and have always said), an okay sci-fi actioner, but it's one that you like when you're a teenager and as you get older you realise how ropey quite a lot of Aliens actually is - much of the dialogue is fist-chewingly cringesome, some of the performances are iffy, the 'nam in space allegory is so-so, and the film in general REALLY hasn't aged very well in my opinion, whilst both Alien and Alien 3 improve with age.  3 isn't perfect by any stretch - I've always called it a minor flawed masterpiece - but sitting through Aliens I find to be quite a chore, whereas 3 breezes by, and its script and most of the acting is miles better.

IN MY SUBJECTIVE OPINION.

[Bazooka]

I think all child killers should be let out of prison to free up cells for people who don't like Alien 3.

[chveik]

I like the 3 sequels equally

[Kelvin]

I think all child killers should be let out of prison to free up cells for people who don't like Alien 3.

I also quite like Prometheus and Covenant, so fuck your laws

[magval]

Did they digitally wipe away the grain for the bluray release? Please say they didn't.

Off the top of my head, no , they didn't. I seem to recall it looked really grainy (or ("filmy") and that set is known for how treasured it was by fans and critics too.

[Kelvin]

Batman v Superman is OKAY!!!

[badaids]

great film. no one fires a gun for an hour and when they do, they're useless. the space marines all seem like meatheads from a generic action film if you're watching with your cursory head on but actually there's a palpable affection and sensitivity.

I can't think of a better film where so many characters are so brilliantly established and defined in such a short space of time.  When they start dying off you've already established a massive rapport with them.  It's a masterpiece of casting, screenwriting and acting.

And the med bay scene.  The tensest scene ever.  I mush have watched it a hundred times and I'm still on the edge of seat.

The extended cut version shows you why it's better to show less.  The bits where they show the colony pre-infestation detract from the film, but the auto gun bit is massively add to the tension.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

much of the dialogue is fist-chewingly cringesome, some of the performances are iffy

Yes, but enough about Alien 3, what about Aliens?

[soaking wet, mate]

The film that divides opinion most on CaB it seems.

Oops, sorry didn't realise!

And I've seen Alien 3 just the once (in the cinema in 1992) so I guess that shows which side I'm on with that one - but the disc I have has 'the 2003 special edition' included so I'd be into watching that if it's the supposedly better version with Paul McGann reinserted.

Despite mostly* knowing Aliens backwards I really enjoyed watching it again and yes it did look grainy but ithis was oddly distracting in places. One bit I never remember noticing was when they're poring over this esoteric map of the colony and Ripley's explaining at length exactly what they'll do to make them all 100% safe (I guess lining up the bit later on when they get attacked by surprise from above) and Newt just yawns!


*or, meustly, as Newt might say

[Shit Good Nose]

Yes, but enough about Alien 3, what about Aliens?

Was wondering when you'd show up to spread your evil - EVIL - propaganda.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Quiz winning evil - EVIL - propaganda, thank you very much.

[Inspector Norse]

I think Aliens is AWESOME but I haven't seen it since I was a teenager so now you've got me worried.

Alien 3 I remember being an interesting misfire. Can't remember the fourth. Prometheus was frustrating and there is no reason for Covenant to exist apart from $$$.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Just a friendly warning: Should I ever meet any of you in person and you praise Prometheus for being "ambitious", you will have exactly five seconds to justify yourself, before I uppercut you into the goddamn stratosphere.

As a quiz winner, it is both my right and my duty.

[Sin Agog]

When I was about thirteen, our old neighbour, a baker named Pete who looked a bit like a doughy Robert Forster, tracked us down from Harwich to Brighton.  Pete had changed somewhat in the intervening years since my mum moved us out here.  He stayed with us for about ten intensely creepy days.  I can't remember what he did on the weekends, but every morning before I left for school he'd put on our VHS of Aliens, and every afternoon when I returned home he'd still be watching it (somehow my return home would always sync up with the air lock mech suit scene).  He did, however, prove that, as well as a penchant for flour and Aliens, he was also a music fan, when he made a change of program one day by throwing on a scratched CD of Jimi Hendrix Live at Isle of Wight and listening to the same two-and-a-half seconds of Star Spangled Banner for at least six hours straight.

[Thomas]

Ale1n
Alein2
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Alienine
Aliten
Aleven

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Al3in

ALI3N

[greenman]

I do like Aliens, but my problems with the film definitely stems from it's role in the series. In particular, I dislike how they neuter the Aliens to make them just a mindless horde, throwing themselves at the turrets like Zapp Brannigan's finest hour. It's not a bad film, by any stretch, I can watch it if it's on. But as a sequel to Aliens, I prefer the ugly nihilism of 3.

To be fair I think the film basically shifts the Alien queen into the role of the original alien, the individual monsters being her pawns. I wouldn't exactly call it cheerful glossy action in terms of tone either dispite having a happy ending, that happy ending is pretty much only for a handful of characters whilst the world itself is just as shit as the films either side of it, trapped between corporate facism and lovecraftian terror.

The main reasons I'v rank it a bit lower than the original is a relative lack of subtly in the story/performances and not having the same level of visuals.