Author Topic: Remote workers' tax  (Read 2861 times)

Thomas

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Remote workers' tax
« on: November 12, 2020, 12:10:59 PM »
If you're in a position to do so, working from home is great. Better for the environment, better for your pocket, better for reducing the worth of Alan Sugar's property portfolio.

At my last job, I wouldn't have been able to work from home, but, in my current position, I'm lucky enough to be typing away at my desk with a cat by my side and unlimited tea breaks.[1]

However, with privilege comes taxation. The boyos down at Deutsche Bank have a plan to save the economy: those working from home should pay more tax.

Quote
A daily 5% working from home tax would cost an employee earning £35,000 just under £7 a day, according to Templeman’s calculations. He suggests the £6.9bn raised in the UK by taxing remote workers could provide a grant of £2,000 to the 12% of people aged over 25 who earn the minimum wage.

Just for scale, Jeff Bezos has a net worth of $184.5bn.

Should we take from the workers to give to the less-well-paid workers - disincentivizing remote work in the process, and stoking divides - or should we fleece the billionaire's club?
 1. within reason.[1]
 1. unlimited.

Cuellar

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Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2020, 12:13:43 PM »
Don't understand how people working from home are 'living a full economic life' (grave) and also not supporting the economy.

bgmnts

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Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2020, 12:14:18 PM »
What do you even do with all that money anyway? It's just pointless.

Although according to sky news, the uk economy has grown by 15% so why do people working from home need to pay more taxes*?




*although to be fair, Sunak just said that the economy has slowed due to covid, so its all absolute utter shite.

Thomas

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Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2020, 12:18:10 PM »
What do you even do with all that money anyway? It's just pointless.

Live many full economic lives simultaneously.

Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2020, 12:26:28 PM »
I love an economic life, but I couldn't live a full one.

Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2020, 12:27:49 PM »
What are you implying? That I'm some sort of economic inadequate? I have a very full and rich and varied economic life, thank you very much.

Blinder Data

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Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2020, 12:39:31 PM »
Seems reasonable. I'm saving a chunk of my salary not getting the train everyday or buying lunch/coffees. Poor buggers who can't work from home like me are getting screwed. As long as they don't take the piss and those on higher wages pay a larger share, I'd gladly pay more tax.

Sebastian Cobb

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Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2020, 01:12:53 PM »
Fine everyone who passes a shop without entering imo, they're DEPRIVING THE ECONOMY

Sebastian Cobb

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Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2020, 01:13:46 PM »
Seems reasonable. I'm saving a chunk of my salary not getting the train everyday or buying lunch/coffees. Poor buggers who can't work from home like me are getting screwed. As long as they don't take the piss and those on higher wages pay a larger share, I'd gladly pay more tax.

You've probaby spent money on other shit, heating, and electric stuff to work from home.

And it's only really a luxury if you're privileged enough to not be space poor. In many cases it's privatising the cost of a working space, so people will have to either rent another room or work in poor conditions that may be detrimental to their health (but your work won't care as you probably can't sue them when you fuck your back up).

Thomas

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Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2020, 01:16:01 PM »
As long as they don't take the piss and those on higher wages pay a larger share

This BBC article notes that the tax 'would not apply to "the self-employed and those on low incomes".' But I don't know if it would be blanket 5% for everybody above that range.

Incidentally, despite working from home, I don't think I earn enough to qualify for the proposed tax. If I was on £35,000, I would not personally begrudge a small tax to help those utterly fucked over by the pandemic.

My problem, though, is that this seems to signal that the wealth-hoarders - who have benefitted massively and directly from the suffering of a global health crisis - and who can afford immunisation from the tax laws of whatever nation they plonk their call centres and warehouses in, are escaping their huge debts to society yet again, foisting the desperate scrabble for public money onto the heads of ordinary people.

Sebastian Cobb

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Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2020, 01:17:28 PM »
It's almost as if moronic arbitrary taxes aren’t socialism.

What this does highlight is how much institutions will shit it if the proles band together and stop spending money in various sectors.


Thomas

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Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2020, 01:30:48 PM »
And it's only really a luxury if you're privileged enough to not be space poor. In many cases it's privatising the cost of a working space, so people will have to either rent another room or work in poor conditions that may be detrimental to their health (but your work won't care as you probably can't sue them when you fuck your back up).

Mmm. I share a house with three other people, and I'm fortunate that nobody minds me using up one of our rooms as my 'office'. I'm also fortunate that I have no psychological problem with leaving work behind at the end of the day, even if I'm stuck in the same house the whole time. We have sunlight, and we're not too close to the noisy main road. It actually relieves my anxiety some mornings not to have to leave the house and speak to people. I was talking recently to a couple of people who've had to turn their houseshare dining room into a makeshift open-plan office.

I feel like this tax would not be about raising money to help the under-privileged and suffering (they don't usually care about that sort of thing, do they?), but incentivising employers to return their staff to those lovely big offices rented out by lovely big landlords.

Sebastian Cobb

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Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2020, 01:38:40 PM »
Imagine having to seriously weigh up whether you could afford that 5% or have to surrender time you'll never get back traipsing to/from an office for no discernable reason.

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2020, 01:40:58 PM »
...it's only really a luxury if you're privileged enough to not be space poor. In many cases it's privatising the cost of a working space, so people will have to either rent another room or work in poor conditions that may be detrimental to their health...

[ferris posts the photo of a cardboard box balanced on his toilet aka the “desk” he used for 5 months in his tiny apartment]

Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2020, 02:30:20 PM »
Surely the companies who have employees working from home are saving money on electricity, equipment, cups of water, etc so could also chip in?

Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2020, 03:04:25 PM »
The lads at Deutsche Bank are sound as fuck, fair play.

Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2020, 05:39:58 PM »
I will pay this tax only if I can guarantee every penny will go to subsidising unused Pret a Mangers in the Square Mile. I really must insist on this.

Fambo Number Mive

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Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2020, 06:01:43 PM »
Noticed this on the Pret a Manger wikipedia:

Quote
Pret A Manger has been cited as being particularly vigorous in extracting affective labour from its employees.[39] Affective labour (or emotional labour)[40] is work which involves manipulating a person's emotional state.

Pret A Manger demands go beyond traditional requirements for fast-food workers (such as courtesy, efficiency, and reliability) to such tasks as having "presence", demonstrating a quirky sense of fun, and exhibiting behaviour consistent with being inwardly happy with oneself.[41] Pret A Manger uses mystery shoppers to ensure that employees deploy markers of a positive emotional state.[39][42] Employees who exhibit markers of latent sadness face consequences such as not having a bonus.[39][42] This has led to some criticism of the company for over-reaching[39][40][43] while drawing praise from right-wing commentators and other business owners for its business practices.[42][44]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pret_a_Manger#Affective_labour_issues

If what is on Wikipedia is true, sounds like a rubbish place to work for.

Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2020, 06:39:37 PM »
Not sure how I feel about this. If I'm understanding it correctly, this would be for people who choose to remain working from home after we get covid done and widespread returning to the office is allowed? (Thus ruling out it being a punitive measure that hits those who are currently struggling to do not-well-paid roles from crowded living rooms/kitchen tables etc. the hardest).

On one hand, I realise how incredibly privileged I am to be able to do my job remotely and get paid without having to risk my life every day (even if I personally really miss going into the office and seeing everyone and I'm fucking sick of Zoom), and I've undeniably saved a fair bit of money on train fares etc.

However, by now lots of people have made changes to their living situations precisely because of working from home for the indefinite-near future - for some of my colleagues, that's moving out of London, buying in some cases.

Me, I've just moved to a rented studio flat in London because I'm hoping it'll be easier to have the space and privacy to work, after months of being miserable working from a cramped flatshare. This is probably also the only time I'll be able to afford to not live in a flatshare, at least as long I stay in London and/or don't have the option of moving in with a partner (again, a situation unlikely to change any time soon, cheers covid). 

I'm not planning to stay there forever - I'll move somewhere cheaper once life becomes a bit more normal (although tbh I'll probably already be broke after rent, gas and electric, but hey ho, thought I'd give it a whirl).

Anyway, I realise I'm in a hugely privileged position to be able to do this, but I worry that those who've chosen to make more significant/lasting changes - e.g. those who've decided to move to an area not close to their office, with kids who've had to change school/nursery etc. - might be unfairly disadvantaged by this.

I also think the widespread adoption of remote working had huge potential for democratising the future of office work in so many areas - disability, working parents, social mobility and diversity - and this rather seems to be going back to the archaic notion that it's a special treat you can have now and then if you're good.


Edit: having re-read through the posts here I do know how I feel about this actually, it's clearly just shit isn't it
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 06:57:11 PM by flotemysost »

Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2020, 07:11:33 PM »
Noticed this on the Pret a Manger wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pret_a_Manger#Affective_labour_issues

If what is on Wikipedia is true, sounds like a rubbish place to work for.


That sounds dreadful. I don't suppose it's occurred to them that if their employees were genuinely happy in their work, they wouldn't have to make a point of requiring them to appear happy.

Sebastian Cobb

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Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2020, 07:47:03 PM »
That employee seems sad, let's dock their bonus!

Happy/enthusiastic retail staff weird me out, much more comfortable with contempt with the prospect of grudging reverence.

I think how nice your retail staff are is inversely proportional to labour laws and how precarious their position.

Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2020, 09:15:05 PM »
I was talking recently to a couple of people who've had to turn their houseshare dining room into a makeshift open-plan office.

One of my colleagues, who shares with four others, has this setup. In our team at work, it's only her and I who live in flatshares (the others all live with partners/spouses, most are homeowners) - I think I've posted before about a rather tone-deaf manager who kept saying "What's that noise, is someone there?" while she (the colleague) was talking during a Zoom meeting, as if it was incomprehensible that some people might have to work in less-than-spacious shared areas alongside flatmates who are also working from home.


Quote from: Pret for cunts
Employees who exhibit markers of latent sadness face consequences such as not having a bonus.

I read that as "markers of latent sadness face", like resting bitch face but sadder.

Fucksake, how many ways are there to quirkily hand someone a five quid cheese baguette?

Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2020, 09:25:57 PM »
If the bankers the bonuses the bankers the bonuses it's disgusting, and if the tories are serious about it then they'd tax the bankers the bonuses to 90%.

Sebastian Cobb

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Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2020, 09:26:42 PM »
One of my colleagues, who shares with four others, has this setup. In our team at work, it's only her and I who live in flatshares (the others all live with partners/spouses, most are homeowners) - I think I've posted before about a rather tone-deaf manager who kept saying "What's that noise, is someone there?" while she (the colleague) was talking during a Zoom meeting, as if it was incomprehensible that some people might have to work in less-than-spacious shared areas alongside flatmates who are also working from home.

It's been the opposite here, with people with kids (especially teenagers) being the most eager to get back to the office.

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Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2020, 09:28:01 PM »
Seems reasonable. I'm saving a chunk of my salary not getting the train everyday or buying lunch/coffees. Poor buggers who can't work from home like me are getting screwed. As long as they don't take the piss and those on higher wages pay a larger share, I'd gladly pay more tax.

You are unwittingly morphing in to Wogan's lemon drizzle.
Fucking hell. This can only go so far while still being polite... Get a grip of yourself.

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Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2020, 09:32:22 PM »
What this does highlight is how much institutions will shit it if the proles band together and stop spending money in various sectors.

Yet many are so enthralled by their cyclical fix of moronic drudgery and easy credit their instinct is to rush to help the cunts who have put us in the position of fully employed people needing charitable donations FOR FUCKING FOOD rather than help themselves and others.

Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2020, 09:46:11 PM »
It's been the opposite here, with people with kids (especially teenagers) being the most eager to get back to the office.

To clarify, most of the people referred to in my post are young(ish) childless cohabiting couples, but yeah I have every sympathy for anyone trying to work from home with children, teenagers and/or extended family.

However the people I know who are working from home with kids don't actually seem desperate to get back to the office, as far as I can tell, but they are desperate to live somewhere with slightly more space/some sort of garden/in a less urban location (which actually might be a feasible option for them now that we're working remotely, and clearly we can't be having that sort of "better quality of life" nonsense).

Edit to add that from what I've heard from some colleagues who do have kids (especially younger children), it sounds like there's a similar lack of comprehension and sympathy from managers about the ways this might make working from home more challenging.

I mean I'm sure some of these managers are parents themselves, but the more senior managers tend to be a) older, so their kids are most likely past the age of randomly bursting into rooms during meetings, b) on higher salaries, so can afford more consistent childcare/bigger houses with more rooms, etc. and c) male, so as per tradition take on less of the burden of childcare anyway.

One positive I was hoping for was widespread remote working being a leveller of the existing gender based childcare/work balance inequalities, but it doesn't sound like that's happening.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 10:04:51 PM by flotemysost »

Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2020, 09:57:22 PM »
If anyone wanted to seriously implement something like this, wouldn't the route be a tax on companies that have offices far smaller than their number of workers? Effectively giving an incentive to rent a bigger office, creating an incentive to force employees back into the office, saving pret

Blinder Data

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Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2020, 05:34:07 PM »
You are unwittingly morphing in to Wogan's lemon drizzle.
Fucking hell. This can only go so far while still being polite... Get a grip of yourself.

I admit I deliberately exaggerated the bluntness of my point, but that's because I expected a few comments demonstrating a reluctance to pay taxes that wouldn't look out of place in the comments section of a Daily Mail article and wanted to look like the proud tax-paying socialist I am.

In any case, you don't know how much I used to spend on public transport, am paid by my employer or is taken off me in taxes. If you did, you might agree with my point!

Just because I might support a homeworkers tax on those who can afford it, it doesn't mean I don't support other, better forms of tax.

Anyway, I don't know how you'd implement this tax and it will likely never happen so it's a moot point.

Re: Remote workers' tax
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2020, 06:35:24 PM »
Fucksake, how many ways are there to quirkily hand someone a five quid cheese baguette?

I have to admit, though, that as far as "presence" goes, not being present does seem like a valid reason for an employee to have their pay docked. On the other hand, it does seem like the best route to inward happiness for a Pret employee.

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