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"40 Genius Gervais Gags"

Started by Jon_Norton, June 13, 2005, 10:26:32 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

Quote from: "slim"
I meant you can't be sure of Gervais' motives.

Then why are we all so sure about a supermarket's motives? After all, it's possible that the managing director of Sainsbury's may decide to give away free biscuits for the sheer fuck of it. I'd say it's pretty unlikely though. So why is there any ambiguity over Gervais' motives?

Quote from: "slim"
And I was making the point that some people don't have the wherewithall to identify it as a cynical act and happily accept it at face value. I said something similar earlier to alan - not everyone is blessed with the same level of critical faculty you are.  

Alan and I aren't blessed with special critical faculties, though. In any case, whether you're cynical or whether you take things at face value, your attitude to a Sainsbury's freebie and a Gervais freebie should be the same, shouldn't it?

lazyhour

Let me see if I understand this debate:  Ricky Gervais is bringing out a new range of cookies, which he will be giving away for free, because then he can then print images of spackers and blacks on them, and Sainsbury's are powerless to stop him?

Is that the gist of it?

I think it's good that an internationally famous comedian - however crap they are - is making a podcast for free.  It might encourage other comedians to follow suit, which would be good for freedom of expression and creativity in comedy, and would be good for podcasting (most current internet radio is godawful amateurish nonsense, of course - just look at TFBFM!).

To me, the link between an individual comedian making a podcast and a supermarket chain giving out free samples is terribly tenuous, and it's to the detriment of this discussion that the supermarket parallel was ever introduced.  Supermarkets are only commerce, whereas comedians are a mix of commerce, culture and creativity.  Even if Gervais leans more towards commerce than many (which in itself is pure speculation), the other elements are still present.  Thus the analogy is unhelpful.

It is quite generous and 'nice' for an entertainer to do something for free that he could equally be getting paid for.  

Remove the trigger-word 'Gervais' from the equation and it's bloomin' obvious.

Edit: Coo, I added a bit more to that bold sentence in an edit, and it showed it as being successfully edited, but now it's disappeared!  Interesting.

mayer

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"your attitude to a Sainsbury's freebie and a Gervais freebie should be the same, shouldn't it?

Yours insn't though. You would never walk past a Sainsbury's, or even a Lidl, and see them giving out free cookies, and think "cynical cunts!", would you?

You'd eat the cookie and think "heh .... another thing coming if they think I'm gonna buy a pack though!"... or "oooh! these cookies are suprisingly nice! I'm going to buy a pack at a reasonably price and enjoy them.... oh, both me and the supermarket have benefited from this exercise in marketing".


You keep saying the "oh my god, what a generous, fabulous man!" comments wouldn't arise for a supermarket. Apart from a couple of half-arsed "meh, that was nice of him, he could've covered the costs on that if he wanted probably, and still had the same publicity of doing the thing", there hasn't been that reaction at all.

But, your reaction of thinking he's a purely cynical, smug, twatty, evil man who wants our worship (yes, I know, I'm exagerrating, but y'know what I mean) is not a response you would have for a supermarket.

So to summarise, I think you're being a little unfair (not to Gervais, but to the people that have commented on him in the latter part of this thread).

slim

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"Then why are we all so sure about a supermarket's motives?
Because supermarkets are owned by shareholders who demand profits, therefore their motives can only ever be profit driven.

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"After all, it's possible that the managing director of Sainsbury's may decide to give away free biscuits for the sheer fuck of it. I'd say it's pretty unlikely though.
It's not possible, unless he fancied losing his job, or masked the decision, pretending it was cynical marketing whilst in fact it was generosity.

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"So why is there any ambiguity over Gervais' motives?
Because he doesn't have shareholders and isn't a supermarket.

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"Alan and I aren't blessed with special critical faculties
Yes, you are. Modesty aside, there are people in this country who couldn't see beyond the obvious without guidance. You're fortunate (or unfortunate, depending on how you look at it) that you can.

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"In any case, whether you're cynical or whether you take things at face value, your attitude to a Sainsbury's freebie and a Gervais freebie should be the same, shouldn't it?
No, see above. And this in fact:

Quote from: "lazyhour"To me, the link between an individual comedian making a podcast and a supermarket chain giving out free samples is terribly tenuous, and it's to the detriment of this discussion that the supermarket parallel was ever introduced.  Supermarkets are only commerce, whereas comedians are a mix of commerce, culture and creativity.
As I said earlier, I believe you are moving the discussion around to avoid the fact that you have no basis for your initial line of attack.

MojoJojo

Quote from: "lazyhour"
To me, the link between an individual comedian making a podcast and a supermarket chain giving out free samples is terribly tenuous, and it's to the detriment of this discussion that the supermarket parallel was ever introduced.  Supermarkets are only commerce, whereas comedians are a mix of commerce, culture and creativity.  Even if Gervais leans more towards commerce than many (which in itself is pure speculation), the other elements are still present.  Thus the analogy is unhelpful.

*hand up* ahh sorry that was me. To be fair the point I was trying to raise was that whatever you think Gervaise's motive, either purely marketing or genuinely altruistic, it can still be considered a good act. Free gifts are the best possible form of marketing, from the consumers perspective. Would anyone disagree with that?

Quote from: "ELW10"It would be a business/marketing tactic devised to mutually benefit (in the long-term) the newspaper, the CD label, and Dee himself. Nobody doubts that, or would have any problem with someone pointing it out.

Don't the people who get the free CD benefit at all then?
Once again, I'll draw a comparison to this site, which offers rewards for donated comedy. A nice thing to do, I'm sure you'll agree, but one which does have the ulterior motive of getting more comedy donations. Does that make it a cynical marketing ploy?

You seem to be berating Gervaise for not doing a pure altruistic act, which seems like a slightly unreasonable standard.

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

Comparing it with the free DVDs that fall out of Sunday papers is probably better than comparing it with supermarket biscuits, to be fair. The DVD is a work of art, but nobody really questions the motivations behind the deal. Nobody believes that the maker of the DVD is being 'generous'. Somebody who says 'It's a publicity drive' wouldn't be condemned for their cynicism.

See, my instant reaction to the Gervais story was this: 'He's trying to manufacture an underground hit. He wants it to be promoted virally. He's going to use it as publicity for whatever his next enterprise is. He wants to be seen as a nice guy who Cares About The Fans. He's going to fake amazement when it 'takes off' due to 'word of mouth'. It's Gervais The Saleman at his most oily.'

To me, it's worse than the newspaper DVD or the supermarket biscuits, because at least they're blatantly business decisions and they credit people with the intelligence to know this. With the Gervais podcast, it seems to be salesman tactics masquerading as generosity.

MojoJojo

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"
See, my instant reaction to the Gervais story was this: 'He's trying to manufacture an underground hit. He wants it to be promoted virally. He's going to use it as publicity for whatever his next enterprise is. He wants to be seen as a nice guy who Cares About The Fans. He's going to fake amazement when it 'takes off' due to 'word of mouth'. It's Gervais The Saleman at his most oily.'

See, I think you're being a bit quick to jump on this as a viral thing. If it was some stupid flash animation, or some "fans" going around message boards talking him up, then yes, that would be twatish. But since he is giving away actual material, I don't think that sticks. It will only work if people judge it as a good. And since it requires people to listen for half an hour, it means it will avoid the "Haha, forwarding that to all my friends" side of email virals.

I think it will backfire on Gervaise though. It's not as if he has enough material to give it away, is it? And he's getting about ready for a backlash, I think (hope).

Catalogue Trousers

Blimey, this row has been going on for PAGES. Lighten up and have a Toffee Crisp, you recalcitrant buggers!

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

Backlash update: Pete Watts takes a swipe at Gervais in the new Time Out, in a column praising My Family and Ever Drecreasing Circles. 'If I was Mark Lawson I'd think that insulting Les Dennis was the funniest thing in the word, but thankfully I'm not. If Gervais had got his hands on EDC, he'd no doubt have just done a funny dance and pretended to be racist.'

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"Backlash update: Pete Watts takes a swipe at Gervais in the new Time Out <snip>

If Gervais had got his hands on EDC, he'd no doubt have just done a funny dance and pretended to be racist.'

Thanks Lalla - that's possibly the funniest thing I've read all week.  Y'know, the more I think about it, the more 'EDC' goes up in my estimation.

Jemble Fred

Shouldn't the big twenty-more-pages-inspiring argument about Cleese and Gervais performing together for the opening of the UK walk of fame have started by now?

I'm not bothered by it, having long ago accepted that Gervais is now part of the comedy elite and as there's absolutely sod-all I can do about it, I'll save some time and keep my hair pigment and hope for the best. At least it's Cleese performing comedy in the UK, after a fashion.

slim

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"'If I was Mark Lawson I'd think that insulting Les Dennis was the funniest thing in the word, but thankfully I'm not. If Gervais had got his hands on EDC, he'd no doubt have just done a funny dance and pretended to be racist.'
I'm starting to suspect that some journalists post on here, you know. :)

Slackboy

*Bump*

Do I really need to write that to get this thread moved up and noticed or is it just a cutesy thing that you lot do?

Anyway, I've just had a thought: if Gervais is such a money-man then why doesn't he do loads of adverts? In fact does he do any apart from jokey plugs for his own stuff? And if it's that that some of you have a problem with then why, I mean wouldn't you do the same thing if you had something of your own to sell? I know I would.

Neil

I'm kind of interested in that too.  I had a messageboard fight with him when I was a twatty Bill Hicks-loving student about his Fairy adverts.  He said he was only doing them to fund other projects, and wouldn't bother if he didn't need the money.

23 Daves

He has done and does do corporate sponsored stuff, I think.  For instance, he was hosting some Advertising Industry awards ceremony a few years ago (or at least presenting awards), which he did for cash.  However, whilst there he took the piss out of many of the advertising companies, laughing at their awards, and in particular making fun of one company who had spend hundreds of thousands and three weeks designing a new text logo (which won a gong).  Of course, this being advertising the assembled Soho throng apparently thought it was hysterical and outrageous for the most part, so no real harm was done (so far as I'm aware!  Though I expect a few people complained).

I got all this info second-hand from my brother, so forgive me if there are any oversights.

Corporate Events are a pretty big cash cow for comedians, though - a hell of a lot of them get involved with them.  Is that more or less ethical than doing an advert?  I suppose it does no harm provided the company isn't  a bit suspect in its practices, but I fail to see how any performer could enjoy doing them as much.

Slackboy

I think he did some workplace educational video for Microsoft as well didn't he? Unless that was just a rumour.

Neil, I'm totally confused by your post. Were you saying that you had an online argument with Gervais about some Fairy adverts he did? If so then I don't remember those at all. Any links that you might have on that stuff would be useful, ta.

I should say that I don't really have a problem with people doing adverts (I mean it keeps the economy moving and all that doesn't it?), just with the idea that Old Gervaiser-pants is more money-obsessed than the rest of us.

Neil

Quote from: "Slackboy"I think he did some workplace educational video for Microsoft as well didn't he? Unless that was just a rumour.

That thing about disability in the workplace?  (Which was the usual Gervais shit).

QuoteNeil, I'm totally confused by your post. Were you saying that you had an online argument with Gervais about some Fairy adverts he did?

Yes, that's right.  It was well before The Office, and the 11OCS stuff too I think.  The ads themselves were only on the radio, which is probably why you don't remember them.  

QuoteI should say that I don't really have a problem with people doing adverts (I mean it keeps the economy moving and all that doesn't it?), just with the idea that Old Gervaiser-pants is more money-obsessed than the rest of us.

Why does that bother you?  Oh, I saw a bit of that thing on ITV earlier tonight where Gervais and Cleese were doing a filmed insert.  Fucking dreadful, and he once again managed to crow-bar in the release date of the Extras DVDs, just as he did on Live 8.  Nah, definitely not money-obsessed, after all, he's just joking, isn't he?

(To be fair though, Cleese did much the same and plugged his website in return.  It was like that Schweppes advert with all the funny sucked out.  What a nauseating spectacle it was, with John bloody Cleese saying Gervais had written 'two classic sitcoms' or such-like.)

Roy*Mallard

Quote from: "23 Daves"Corporate Events are a pretty big cash cow for comedians, though.....

it's funny that Ricky Gervais has gone from being a one trick pony to a cash cow!

Slackboy

I said "more money obsessed than the rest of us" which I suspect he isn't. I know a jokey plug is still a plug but what really is wrong with doing that? More people buying Gervais's DVDs isn't going to jeopardise the debt relief effort is it?

I should say that I'm commenting on that particular plug since I missed the ITV thing. I suspect that it wasn't as bad as you thought it was though.

Neil

Quote from: "Captain Contrary"I should say that I'm commenting on that particular plug since I missed the ITV thing. I suspect that it wasn't as bad as you thought it was though.

What a surprise.

Slackboy

Give me a break BigN. If it helps I don't think that Nighty Night is any good. Or to put that another way I don't think that it's my kind of thing, although I have liked the second series a lot more than the first, but that isn't really saying much. I'm assuming that you didn't like it that much although I haven't checked.

I do agree with some of the things that you write, it's just that I don't bother to post about those since nothing interesting is going to come from it. Primates like us thrive on conflict anyway so really I'm expanding your lifespan by even coming on here in the first place. And where's the gratitude ay?

Neil

Quote from: "Slackboy"Give me a break BigN. If it helps I don't think that Nighty Night is any good. Or to put that another way I don't think that it's my kind of thing, although I have liked the second series a lot more than the first, but that isn't really saying much. I'm assuming that you didn't like it that much although I haven't checked.

I do agree with some of the things that you write, it's just that I don't bother to post about those since nothing interesting is going to come from it.

I was only kidding, y'know?  Cuh, you comedy fans, honestly.  You wouldn't know a joke if it tried to split you and your partner up and provoked you to the point of violence.  Why are you even on the internet when you could be kissing a girl instead?  Etc.

QuotePrimates like us thrive on conflict anyway so really I'm expanding your lifespan by even coming on here in the first place. And where's the gratitude ay?

Excellent, I had a sneaking suspicion that you were Vera to my Jack.

I wouldn't give Gervais the benefit of the doubt over anything now,  I found the last episode of Extras unbelievably self-serving and smug.  (Cue cries of 'just the last episode?')

I want to dig out that Wayne Carr segment where he talks about the Free Nelson Mandella concert for you, but I can't remember where on earth it is.  That was at a time though where comedians like Morris and VLS would rip apart celebs just for showing up at those sort of benefit gigs!  Maybe that would seem like a rather obvious point to make these days, but then you get Gervais using something like Live 8 to plug his DVDs...  Seems like a large step backwards to me, no matter how much he might want to use the old studenty defence of 'just being ironic, guv.'

Eis Nein

the.daily.show.09.21.05.Ricky Gervais.ogm


hmmm

Leslie

Quote from: "Eis Nein"the.daily.show.09.21.05.Ricky Gervais.ogm


hmmm

It was quite startling to see how Ricky acted in this interview.  He wasn't his usual self at all I though.

Harfyyn Teuport

Any web transcript links? I'm still on dialup at the mo, and there's no chance I could get it...

Jasper

There was nothing that was said that's worth pointing out.  It was just the tone of the interview itself.

Slackboy

It was slightly subdued but nothing remarkable. Stewart at one point said that The Office was better than anything the US had ever in comedy done and Gervais was taken aback by that. I've deleted the file so I can't check on the exact wording.

Stewart also said that Extras was like CYE in that a lot of it was improvised and Gervais corrected him on that saying that about 95% of it was scripted. Stewart then said that seemed so naturalistic that he assumed it was improvised. There was a lot of mutual ass-kissing going on actually, with Gervais saying that The Daily Show was a very intelligent programme or something along those lines.